What is the difference between works of the Law and works of the Spirit

Deus Vult!

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The unadulterated pre-modern meaning of the word "protest" is "in favor of testing." Catholics were persecuted by Protestants in the U.S. in the early 20th century. I know the history but I wasn't there. I have never been anti-Catholic myself but I am in favor of testing doctrine. You can pontificate all you want. You're not fooling anyone.

By the way though, the word "protest" or "protestant" has never meant anything close to "testing". No idea where you ate getting that from. Please share a reference to back up that claim. Also, I have never heard of any persecution by Protestants against Catholics in the 20th century of considerable note. Catholics and protestants have waged terrible things against each other since the 16th century. The theological differences between the Church and the protestants had very early on been politicized by many for worldly gains and pushed the ecclesiastical climate to a boiling point that caused the masses on both sides to take their differences to actual battlefields and warring against each other for the sake of their beliefs. But all this should not distract from the true Apostolic Teaching that the Apostles taught and commanded that their Teaching be guarded and not changed in any way...
What if I told you that 7 books had been removed from the Old Testament by the early Protestant reformers that had been in the Bible for the preceding 1400 years ! I mean just start with that... look into that, look into the history of the protestant churches and Catholic Church.

"To be deep in history is to cease being Protestant."- Cardinal Newman
 
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Soyeong

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, so it is of faith. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that was of works with a law that is of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said in 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so again it is of faith. So Paul directly contrasted works of the law with the Mosaic Law. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with people teaching followers of God how to obey His laws as though obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with people teaching that Gentiles needed to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

The phrase "works of the law" has not definitive article in the Greek, so it is literally translated as "works of law", which means that it does not refer to a definitive set of laws, such as the Law of Moses, but rather Paul used it as a catch-all phrase to refer to a large body of Jewish oral laws, traditions, rulings, and fences, which were being taught that people needed to obey in order to become justified. The phrase is used in the same way in Qumran Text 4QMMT.

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have mind set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. After all, the Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God, so it is the Law of the Spirit.
 
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fhansen

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter
The first are done by our own efforts to prove our holiness while the latter are done by love which is true holiness and the chief fruit of the Spirit at work in us. The first is phony and external while the latter is the real thing flowing from internal change.
 
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Carltoncat107

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter
This is what I believe is the difference. I believe that the Holy Spirit in us is the Law in himself. If we're trying to keep the commandments in ourselves, we must question our salvation, but if we are guided by the Spirit, we're no longer under Law but Grace.

So the difference between the two is the nature of our obedience. If we're doing something in ourselves, that's the flesh. If the Holy Spirit is doing something in us, that's the spirit in obedience to the Spirit.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter
Law is a set of rules to follow. How you interpret those rules is a matter for the individual. Usually, there is a ruling body that gives guidelines. If you adhere to the guidelines, you are accepted by the particular ruling body. If not, you have to find some group that will accept you. Works of the law are dead. They may be "good" but they do not require faith. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

When you are following the leading of the Spirit, your work is instigated by God and done in the power of God. It is also to the glory of God. If every Christian followed the leading of the Spirit, there would no dead works, no division, no glory to man and all glory to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus.
 
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Josheb

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What's the difference between works of the law and works of the Spirit?

I know, I'm assuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter
Let's clarify the inquiry a bit. Is the inquiry intended to focus on works? Is the inquiry intended to focus on the differences between law and Spirit? Is the inquiry intended to focus on how the law works works in comparison to how the Spirit works works and the differences therein? Or is this inquiry specifically about justification via works of the law versus works of the Spirit because Paul's mention of these works is specifically about justification ant not other concerns.

And I ask this because there is a huge overlap between the two sets of works and we should not find ourselves arguing false dichotomies. The Spirit never contradicts the written nor the incarnate word so we know any posts pitting the three against one another..... is not a work of the Spirit :wink:.

Fundamentally, it should be understood that the NT writers, including Paul, constantly referenced the OT commands of God and the Mosaic code in particular and they did so as a means of directing conduct among the NT-era ekklesia. They simply did not do so regarding righteousness and certain aspects of justification. Attention to detail and discernment is required to correctly understand the divisions, distinctions, the differences Paul and the NT writers are making.... inspired by the Holy Spirit. Their writing is a work of the Spirit and that Spirit repeatedly directed them to the works of the Law.

Just not in regard to righteousness, justification, legalism, certain aspects of judgment within the body, and other areas of ordinary life in Christ.


So clarify the inquiry a bit for me, please.
 
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zoidar

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Let's clarify the inquiry a bit. Is the inquiry intended to focus on works? Is the inquiry intended to focus on the differences between law and Spirit? Is the inquiry intended to focus on how the law works works in comparison to how the Spirit works works and the differences therein? Or is this inquiry specifically about justification via works of the law versus works of the Spirit because Paul's mention of these works is specifically about justification ant not other concerns.

And I ask this because there is a huge overlap between the two sets of works and we should not find ourselves arguing false dichotomies. The Spirit never contradicts the written nor the incarnate word so we know any posts pitting the three against one another..... is not a work of the Spirit :wink:.

Fundamentally, it should be understood that the NT writers, including Paul, constantly referenced the OT commands of God and the Mosaic code in particular and they did so as a means of directing conduct among the NT-era ekklesia. They simply did not do so regarding righteousness and certain aspects of justification. Attention to detail and discernment is required to correctly understand the divisions, distinctions, the differences Paul and the NT writers are making.... inspired by the Holy Spirit. Their writing is a work of the Spirit and that Spirit repeatedly directed them to the works of the Law.

Just not in regard to righteousness, justification, legalism, certain aspects of judgment within the body, and other areas of ordinary life in Christ.


So clarify the inquiry a bit for me, please.

My thoughts are works of the Law are not necessary for salvation, where works of the Spirit are. I'm trying to understand the difference.
 
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Josheb

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My thoughts are works of the Law are not necessary for salvation, where works of the Spirit are. I'm trying to understand the difference.
To what degree do you think it appropriate to discriminate between conversion and salvation?

In other words, we might say we are converted from death to life in an instant and salvation is a past event, a current state, and a future condition because salvation from sin and wrath is a process that begins with conversion and is completed in resurrection.

Would you agree with that summary?
 
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fhansen

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My thoughts are works of the Law are not necessary for salvation, where works of the Spirit are. I'm trying to understand the difference.
They're both works, but those mentioned in Matt 25, done for "the least of these", or those mentioned in Eph 2:10, are works of the Spirit, motivated the right way, by the love He's wrought in us. Compare those works to the works of the Pharisees who Jesus decried as being hypocrites.
 
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Oldmantook

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We Christian gather on the Lord's Day. This "Lords Day" to a Jew in the first century of Christianity would have been to them the eighth day, the day after the Sabbath, which was the seventh day.
The reason that this day since the very birth of Christianity became our Holy Day of rest is because our Lord rose from the dead on this day. I could give you many references in the book of Acts where the Apostles and those converting to Christ began gathering and keeping holy the Lords Day=Sunday, and gave up the Sabbath.
Jesus kept the Sabbath. Paul kept the Sabbath. Gentiles in the early Church also kept the Sabbath as they gathered at the synagogue to hear Paul preach:
Acts 17:2-4 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
 
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Neogaia777

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter
I would say they are the difference of or between, works done by just by primary only you or primarily your own will, etc, and/or especially for primarily "self" or primarily self-serving reasons also, and then "good work" (that is not that) done by primarily God working in and out and through and by you primarily, and not the other way around, etc... "good work" that is not primarily about self or is for primarily self-serving or selfish reasons, etc, and that does not come primarily by or because of you, but God (in and out and through and by you primarily, etc) (and not the other way around, etc)...

Works of the Law/flesh/self, and works of the Spirit (of God), or not flesh, or not primarily just only "self" only, etc... (not selfish or self-serving primarily only, etc) (and not just only primarily done only by (or only coming from) (or are just only for) primarily self and self only, etc)...

Not your own will primarily, but His (God's) will primarily, and work that is a/and/or truly good work also... Done by primarily God's will in you/through you/out from you, and not your own primarily, etc... And not for selfish or self-serving gain and or reasons primarily, etc, or first and foremost, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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I would say they are the difference of or between, works done by just by primary only you or primarily your own will, etc, and/or especially for primarily "self" or primarily self-serving reasons also, and then "good work" (that is not that) done by primarily God working in and out and through and by you primarily, and not the other way around, etc... "good work" that is not primarily about self or is for primarily self-serving or selfish reasons, etc, and that does not come primarily by or because of you, but God (in and out and through and by you primarily, etc) (and not the other way around, etc)...

Works of the Law/flesh/self, and works of the Spirit (of God), or not flesh, or not primarily just only "self" only, etc... (not selfish or self-serving primarily only, etc) (and not just only primarily done only by (or only coming from) (or are just only for) primarily self and self only, etc)...

Not your own will primarily, but His (God's) will primarily, and work that is a/and/or truly good work also... Done by primarily God's will in you/through you/out from you, and not your own primarily, etc... And not for selfish or self-serving gain and or reasons primarily, etc, or first and foremost, etc...

God Bless!
And the two work against each other, and stand in direct juxtaposed opposition to one another, so it's very "tricky"...

It can appear to be good work, but can be being done out of your own will or strength/ability, etc, and can be for primarily selfish or self-serving gain and/or reasons, that are not always so obvious on the surface, not even to the one doing them, etc...

Like I said, can be "tricky", etc, one can be truly truly good, while the other can be sometimes "wholly evil", etc... Tricky... Tricksy sometimes... Even to the one doing and/or performing them, etc...

God Bless!
 
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rturner76

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I think, like someone already said. Works of the law are ceremony, sacrifices, and following the rules for the sake of the approval of your fellow parishioners, to make yourself look good with no care of whether it advances the Kingdom or not.

Works of the Spirit are activities you undertake to show God's love in the world and to advance the work of the Great Commission.

Over and over in the Bible Jesus talks about obedience. So yes we need to repent and accept the Grace of the Lord. Once that grace is given, we grow in the Spirit and are able to obey his commandments. Then, being able to obey, we should do so to the best of our ability but we will never be perfect. That's where repentance and forgiveness come in again.

It's not about "If I go to Mass 5 times a day I get to go to heaven." It's about showing our gratitude for our salvation by obeying and undertaking active discipleship. We live our faith, not just proclaim it.

If we forget about obedience and just rely on our Baptism or conversion, that leaves the door open to accept Christ but live as a Pagan, participating in debauchery, and blasphemy because we rely on our redemption and forget about obedience.

W need both, redemption and obedience. Producing works is not enough in and of itself, that's where we need repentance. If we rely on our works alone, nobody will measure up.

THat's how works of the spirit fortify our salvation, rather than provide it.
 
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Neogaia777

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I would say they are the difference of or between, works done by just by primary only you or primarily your own will, etc, and/or especially for primarily "self" or primarily self-serving reasons also, and then "good work" (that is not that) done by primarily God working in and out and through and by you primarily, and not the other way around, etc... "good work" that is not primarily about self or is for primarily self-serving or selfish reasons, etc, and that does not come primarily by or because of you, but God (in and out and through and by you primarily, etc) (and not the other way around, etc)...

Works of the Law/flesh/self, and works of the Spirit (of God), or not flesh, or not primarily just only "self" only, etc... (not selfish or self-serving primarily only, etc) (and not just only primarily done only by (or only coming from) (or are just only for) primarily self and self only, etc)...

Not your own will primarily, but His (God's) will primarily, and work that is a/and/or truly good work also... Done by primarily God's will in you/through you/out from you, and not your own primarily, etc... And not for selfish or self-serving gain and or reasons primarily, etc, or first and foremost, etc...

God Bless!

And the two work against each other, and stand in direct juxtaposed opposition to one another, so it's very "tricky"...

It can appear to be good work, but can be being done out of your own will or strength/ability, etc, and can be for primarily selfish or self-serving gain and/or reasons, that are not always so obvious on the surface, not even to the one doing them, etc...

Like I said, can be "tricky", etc, one can be truly truly good, while the other can be sometimes "wholly evil", etc... Tricky... Tricksy sometimes... Even to the one doing and/or performing them, etc...

God Bless!

OK, I'll try to make this much shorter and much simpler and easier (less confusing, etc)...

Works of the Spirit are works truly done by the Spirit, and all other works or work that is not, is/are works or work that is not truly, or wholly, but is of the Law or flesh/man and not of or by the Spirit primarily, or is not works or work of, or by, or done by only the Spirit primarily, etc...

And by the Spirit, I mean done of and by God, or the Spirit of God, and not by man or man's spirit, (or will/effort/strength) alone, etc...

Hope that makes a lot more sense and is simpler and easier...?

God Bless!
 
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zoidar

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To what degree do you think it appropriate to discriminate between conversion and salvation?

In other words, we might say we are converted from death to life in an instant and salvation is a past event, a current state, and a future condition because salvation from sin and wrath is a process that begins with conversion and is completed in resurrection.

Would you agree with that summary?

I think I would agree. I don't use the word process. You are saved in an instant through repentance, and you are saved eternally at resurrection, if you have stayed on the vine.
 
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BobRyan

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Christ love,
Peter

"Works of the LAW" as used by Paul is always "apart from faith"

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ...

27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

So then Paul is not condemning the LAW that says "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 or "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5... rather he is condemning pursuit of obedience to God's Word apart from faith.

God does not say of them "they have perfect obedience but their whole heart is just not in it"
 
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aiki

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I know, I'm asuming something here. Let us just stick to what Paul means by works of the Law and works of the Spirit. As always, be kind to each other, and encourage each other in faith.

Works of the Law fulfill the letter of the law, while works of the Spirit fulfill the spirit of the law. Part of the difference here is related to the Christian's motive for obedience. A legalistic adherence to God's commands typically arises from fear, duty, obligation and/or religious pride. A work of the Spirit, on the other hand, is the natural by-product of obedience to the First and Great Commandment (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

A work of the Law often arises out of a hypocritical concern with externalities, from a desire to be seen to fulfill the Law of God even if one's heart is far from Him. Consider the hypocritical law-keeping of the Pharisees (Mark 7:6). The idea is that one must do the right thing rather than be the right person. That is, a work of the law is a legalistic, appearances-centered effort to obey rather than a natural, joyful manifestation of loving fellowship with God.

Works of the Law are often the preoccupation of those who feel they can, by dint of their own obedient effort, move themselves closer to God, or earn His favor and grace. It is a subtle move of Self to intrude into the work of God, perhaps even to share in the glory of His saving, transforming work.

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
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BobRyan

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Works of the Law fulfill the letter of the law, while works of the Spirit fulfill the spirit of the law.

Not according to Paul.

In Romans 2:3-5 and Romans 2:17-24 it is clear that the "works of the Law" folks were not keeping the letter of the law at all -

17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Gal 6:13 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves,


God does not say of them "they have perfect obedience but their whole heart is just not in it"
 
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Alain Valdivia

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That is a wonderful question and it has been the matter of controversy for almost 2,000 years. There are many who assert that when the Apostle Paul speaks of "works of the Law" he is simply referring to the ceremonial laws of the Jewish people. However, this interpretation is unlikely since Paul speaks of the Gentiles obeying the Law by their inward conscience in Romans 2:14. How can the Gentiles be said to obey the Law if it only referred to ceremonial laws? Moreover, in chapter 3 of the same epistle the Apostle states that the Law shuts us up under the condemnation of God and convicts us of our sin and insufficiency to save ourselves (Romans 3:19-20). Again, how can the Law be said to condemn us and show us our sin if it only included the laws of circumcision and dietary restrictions? Another place to go to is Romans 7 where Paul explains that the believer has been divorced from the Law and married to Christ. He then goes on to say that when he attempted to obey the Law he was unable to do so. The key part is where he mentions the specific commandment he couldn't keep which was the 10th commandment, "Yet if it had not been for the Law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet. But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the Law, sin lies dead." (Romams 7:7b-8).
Another point that I would like to bring up is that when Paul speaks in other places of justification being by faith he also mentions it being excluded from works in a general sense. For example, in Titus 3:5 the Apostle states, "...he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." Notice how the Apostle says "works done by us in righteousness" which without a doubt clearly shows that he does not only have the ceremonial laws in mind.
Augustine also has the same view in relation to this. He says, "'Although, therefore, the apostle seems to reprove and correct those who were being persuaded to be circumcised, in such terms as to designate by the word “law” circumcision itself and other similar legal observances, which are now rejected as shadows of a future substance by Christians who yet hold what those shadows figuratively promised; he at the same time, nevertheless, would have it to be clearly understood that the law, by which he says no man is justified, lies not merely in those sacramental [ceremonial] institutions which contained promissory figures, but also in those works by which whosoever has done them lives holily, and amongst which occurs this prohibition: “Thou shalt not covet.”...Is it possible to contend that it is not the law which was written on those two tables that the apostle describes as “the letter that killeth,” but the law of circumcision and the other sacred rites which are now abolished? But then how can we think so, when in the law occurs this precept, “Thou shalt not covet,” by which very commandment, notwithstanding it being holy, just, and good, “sin,” says the apostle, “deceived me, and by it slew me?” What else can this be than “the letter” that “killeth.”'
Thomas Aquinas also notices this observation in his commentary on Romans 3 where he also says, '"However, a work of the Law is of two kinds: one is peculiar to the Mosaic Law, as the observance of ceremonial precepts; the other is a work of the Law of nature, because it pertains to the natural law, as "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal," etc. Now some take the Apostle’s words as referring to the first works, namely, that the ceremonials did not confer the grace through which men are made just. But this does not seem to be the Apostle’s intent, for he immediately adds: "since through the law comes knowledge of sin." But it is clear that sins are made known through prohibitions contained in the moral precepts. Consequently, the Apostle intends to say that by no works of the Law, even those commanded by the moral precepts, is man justified in the sense that justice would be caused in him by works, because, as he states below (11:6): "But if it is by grace it is no longer on the basis of works."'
Therefore, it is safe to assume that "works of Law" not only refer to the ceremonial laws prescribed but also the moral precepts and commandments of God. As to what works of the Spirit are, I would claim that any form of obedience, love, or good work done by the believer from a principle of grace would be considered works by the Spirit. A text to look at is Galatians 5:16-18 which states, "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law." From this we can conclude that works done through the assistance of the Spirit and from a gracious principle are the works of the Spirit.
Why then the distinction? I believe because if someone is under the moral precepts of the Law they will be under its condemnation. Now those who are under the Law are in bondage to sin and are accursed by God. Sin, therefore, will be aroused by the commandments to further increase its wickedness as the Apostle spoke of in Romans 7 in regards to coveting. With this the sinner begins to hate God (Romans 8:7) because they see Him as their Malefactor and Judge who will righteously condemn them. Because of this, all of their obedience, strivings against sins, prayers and mortifications are done from a legal standpoint. They do these works to justify themselves before God only to realize more and more their utter insufficiency of their own righteousness. They are, as the Apostle says, "held captive under the law," (Galatians 3:23), who also "being ignorant of the righteousness of God," they seek to "establish their own." (Romans 10:3). But after they are justified by grace, their works are done not like how a slave would obey their master, but how a son would obey their father. The greatest difference between both works is that one is done out of legal fear and dread, whereas the other is done out of love.
 
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