When did the Old Covenant truly "disappear" and end?

Status
Not open for further replies.

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acts 24:15 actually says this (and I believe Luke's timing):

There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)​

Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

Is this past or future?

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, (1) Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but (2) gather the wheat into my barn.”

Verses 37-43 continues, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (or aion or age); and the reapers are the angels. (1) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (or aion or age). The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (2) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Is this past or future?

John 11:21-27 records: “Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.”

Is this past or future?

Christ had previously taught in John 6:39-44, 54, where He said, “And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day …No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day ... Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Is this past or future?

Christ tells us in John 12:48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

Is this past or future? What happens/happened at this resurrection? When does/did it happen/happened? How are/were the unjust resurrected?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Acts 24:15 says, “there shall be a resurrection of the dead (singular), both of the just and unjust.”

Is this past or future?

Look at the original language in the lexicon:


μέλλειν = to be about to

I don't believe this is about a physical resurrection. I believe this is in reference to the prophecy of Daniel - the section recorded in Daniel 12:

Daniel 12:1-2 ~ At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Everyone who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever."

Who is this about? Do you notice the part about "the sons of your people" (spoken to Daniel)? And that “your people” would be delivered?” He is speaking of the Jewish Tribulation of AD 70. In fact, Jesus quotes vs 3 about the righteous shining and applied it to the end of the old covenant age, the time of the Jewish tribulation in AD70. (in Mt. 13:43)

This is not about an end of the world event or even a physical resurrection (in my belief). It is an event (IMO), spoken in prophetic language to describe what would happen to Judah and Israel in the last days of the Old Covenant. It is about Daniel's people... Israel!


When Would This Take Place?
4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.

Notice that the angelic messenger dressed in linen doesn't say the end of time, but the time of the end. The end of what? The end of the Old Covenant age. Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:11,

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom THE ENDS OF THE AGES HAVE COME."

Acts 3:24 ~ "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold THESE days."


The days they were living in were the time of the end.

Daniel 12 has a context that provides us with the timing of when all these things would take place. The angelic messenger says that ALL these things will be finished at a certain time in history. It would be the time when the center of power for Judaism was completely shattered... the temple. He also says how long this event would last... times, time and half a time. That is the prophetic equivalent to 3.5 years. (time = 1 year; times = 2 years; half a time= 6 months). Do you know how long the time was that Rome attacked Jerusalem and finally destroyed the temple? It was 3.5 years.

Here is one more contextual evidence from the words of Jesus. Pay attention to the fact that he is applying Daniel 12 to THIS age. What age was Jesus living in? According to Paul, Jesus was "born of a woman, born UNDER THE LAW..." THIS age, to Jesus was the age of the Law. He doesn't say "that age" as some distant one thousands of years later, but rather, the one they were living in at the moment:

Matthew 13:39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of THIS AGE...43 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.

So we know WHEN Daniel 12 was to take place, so what kind of awakening from the dust is Daniel 12 referring to? It must not be physical at all.

"Who sleep in the dust of the earth" I just learned that this is a figure of speech used in ancient cultures to describe those who were utterly defeated. That is why in the Garden the language is used of the serpent licking the dust of the earth. That is why Israel is depicted in Ezekiel 37 as being in the Valley of dry bones, in the place of utter defeat, in the dust. In Genesis 28:14 he describes the children of Israel’s descendants being like the dust in the earth. In this case dust meaning as numerous as specks of dust, but he corporately calls them dust. In 1 Samuel 2:8 (the poor he lifts from the dust) people who live in the dust refers to the poor, and the powerless where he specifically raises them up out of the dust. It means out of their defeat and poverty.


So this is not speaking of a physical resurrection. It is the raising up, regathering of Israel, not bringing Israel back into their physical territory in 1947. We already have the timing of this event as the period of time leading up to the fall of the temple in AD 70. It is the regathering of those who were scattered through the dispersion into Babylon and Assyria, etc. In other words those cast out of the land, many years before, were considered “dead” corporately. Remember the image in Ezekiel 37 of the valley of dry bones? Israel is pictured as dead in terms of covenant, their covenant was broken, and they were pictured as if they were lifeless.

Remember that Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel... the Israel that was sent into captivity. In Acts 2 we find that Jews from all over the world, the scattered ones, were there for Pentecost and so began the re-gathering.

So what happened in the resurrection of Christ? According to Ephesians 2 ALL were made alive together with him, and ALL were raised together with him. Israel was God's "first born" and as Nicodemus should have known, there was coming a time for all Israel to be reborn. Spiritually speaking that took place at the resurrection of Christ. An awakening took place. As Jesus said those in the graves, or as Daniel would say it, in the dust of the earth… the defeated poor broken disenfranchised scattered Israelites, would hear his voice and because they were raised together with Christ, they would experience the age of new covenant kingdom life.

That started in the ministry of Jesus but it really blossomed on the day of Pentecost where thousands were gathered together in Jerusalem from the ends of the earth, being regathered into the NC.

But what about those who did evil? Did you know that in Hebrews 3:12 the author calls the Jew's unbelief evil? Those who refused to come out of the Law, even though they were in the midst of the greatest awakening in their history, if they refused to believe Jesus, they would die in the fall of Jerusalem. That is why Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. This "saved" is not about going to heaven. It is about them identifying with Christ and being saved from the fall of Jerusalem and its condemnation of the system of Law.

So some experienced the resurrection out of the dust and the age of life of the New Covenant, while others experienced the resurrection out of the dust, but refused to believe and were caught in the condemnation of the fall of Jerusalem. If you want the "condemnation" of Daniel 12 to be "eternal", even though the word doesn't mean that, one could still come to the same conclusion because the judgment on Jerusalem and on the temple system was a message that is to stand "forever" as a testimony. But Daniel 12 never meant a physical resurrection.


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Is this past or future?

Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-30
I believe the "wheat" and "tares" represents the True Israel and Apostate Israel growing together until the harvest - the end of the ancient Jewish age.....when the faithful were separated from the apostate. That's the partial preterist view.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Look at the original language in the lexicon:


μέλλειν = to be about to

I don't believe this is about a physical resurrection. I believe this is in reference to the prophecy of Daniel - the section recorded in Daniel 12:

Daniel 12:1-2 ~ At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Everyone who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever."

Who is this about? Do you notice the part about "the sons of your people" (spoken to Daniel)? And that “your people” would be delivered?” He is speaking of the Jewish Tribulation of AD 70. In fact, Jesus quotes vs 3 about the righteous shining and applied it to the end of the old covenant age, the time of the Jewish tribulation in AD70. (in Mt. 13:43)

This is not about an end of the world event or even a physical resurrection (in my belief). It is an event (IMO), spoken in prophetic language to describe what would happen to Judah and Israel in the last days of the Old Covenant. It is about Daniel's people... Israel!


When Would This Take Place?
4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.

Notice that the angelic messenger dressed in linen doesn't say the end of time, but the time of the end. The end of what? The end of the Old Covenant age. Paul said in 1 Cor. 10:11,

"Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom THE ENDS OF THE AGES HAVE COME."

Acts 3:24 ~ "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold THESE days."


The days they were living in were the time of the end.

Daniel 12 has a context that provides us with the timing of when all these things would take place. The angelic messenger says that ALL these things will be finished at a certain time in history. It would be the time when the center of power for Judaism was completely shattered... the temple. He also says how long this event would last... times, time and half a time. That is the prophetic equivalent to 3.5 years. (time = 1 year; times = 2 years; half a time= 6 months). Do you know how long the time was that Rome attacked Jerusalem and finally destroyed the temple? It was 3.5 years.

Here is one more contextual evidence from the words of Jesus. Pay attention to the fact that he is applying Daniel 12 to THIS age. What age was Jesus living in? According to Paul, Jesus was "born of a woman, born UNDER THE LAW..." THIS age, to Jesus was the age of the Law. He doesn't say "that age" as some distant one thousands of years later, but rather, the one they were living in at the moment:

Matthew 13:39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of THIS AGE...43 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.

So we know WHEN Daniel 12 was to take place, so what kind of awakening from the dust is Daniel 12 referring to? It must not be physical at all.

"Who sleep in the dust of the earth" I just learned that this is a figure of speech used in ancient cultures to describe those who were utterly defeated. That is why in the Garden the language is used of the serpent licking the dust of the earth. That is why Israel is depicted in Ezekiel 37 as being in the Valley of dry bones, in the place of utter defeat, in the dust. In Genesis 28:14 he describes the children of Israel’s descendants being like the dust in the earth. In this case dust meaning as numerous as specks of dust, but he corporately calls them dust. In 1 Samuel 2:8 (the poor he lifts from the dust) people who live in the dust refers to the poor, and the powerless where he specifically raises them up out of the dust. It means out of their defeat and poverty.


So this is not speaking of a physical resurrection. It is the raising up, regathering of Israel, not bringing Israel back into their physical territory in 1947. We already have the timing of this event as the period of time leading up to the fall of the temple in AD 70. It is the regathering of those who were scattered through the dispersion into Babylon and Assyria, etc. In other words those cast out of the land, many years before, were considered “dead” corporately. Remember the image in Ezekiel 37 of the valley of dry bones? Israel is pictured as dead in terms of covenant, their covenant was broken, and they were pictured as if they were lifeless.

Remember that Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel... the Israel that was sent into captivity. In Acts 2 we find that Jews from all over the world, the scattered ones, were there for Pentecost and so began the re-gathering.

So what happened in the resurrection of Christ? According to Ephesians 2 ALL were made alive together with him, and ALL were raised together with him. Israel was God's "first born" and as Nicodemus should have known, there was coming a time for all Israel to be reborn. Spiritually speaking that took place at the resurrection of Christ. An awakening took place. As Jesus said those in the graves, or as Daniel would say it, in the dust of the earth… the defeated poor broken disenfranchised scattered Israelites, would hear his voice and because they were raised together with Christ, they would experience the age of new covenant kingdom life.

That started in the ministry of Jesus but it really blossomed on the day of Pentecost where thousands were gathered together in Jerusalem from the ends of the earth, being regathered into the NC.

But what about those who did evil? Did you know that in Hebrews 3:12 the author calls the Jew's unbelief evil? Those who refused to come out of the Law, even though they were in the midst of the greatest awakening in their history, if they refused to believe Jesus, they would die in the fall of Jerusalem. That is why Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. This "saved" is not about going to heaven. It is about them identifying with Christ and being saved from the fall of Jerusalem and its condemnation of the system of Law.

So some experienced the resurrection out of the dust and the age of life of the New Covenant, while others experienced the resurrection out of the dust, but refused to believe and were caught in the condemnation of the fall of Jerusalem. If you want the "condemnation" of Daniel 12 to be "eternal", even though the word doesn't mean that, one could still come to the same conclusion because the judgment on Jerusalem and on the temple system was a message that is to stand "forever" as a testimony. But Daniel 12 never meant a physical resurrection.



If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe the "wheat" and "tares" represents the True Israel and Apostate Israel growing together until the harvest - the end of the ancient Jewish age.....when the faithful were separated from the apostate. That's the partial preterist view.

Can you address post #355 please?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
You first have to get past your presumption of what "resurrection" means. The word is used in the Bible for multiple concepts. In this specific case - it's about ancient Israel (I believe). I wouldn't classify this as "spiritual" - more "covenantal".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You first have to get past your presumption of what "resurrection" means. The word is used in the Bible for multiple concepts. In this specific case - it's about ancient Israel.

I believe it is physical. I am trying to see how your theory works. If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I believe it is physical. I am trying to see how your theory works. If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
That's why I'm saying you have to - at least momentarily - set aside your presumptions. You can't hold to your beliefs while simultaneously trying to "see" another way of interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe the "wheat" and "tares" represents the True Israel and Apostate Israel growing together until the harvest - the end of the ancient Jewish age.....when the faithful were separated from the apostate. That's the partial preterist view.

Just like I informed you a week ago. You are absolutely and utterly obsessed with AD70.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's why I'm saying you have to - at least momentarily - set aside your presumptions. You can't hold to your beliefs while simultaneously trying to "see" another way of interpretation.

Why would you not explain how this happens? Only because there is absolutely no sensible explanation. Even your Preterist teachers cannot explain this one.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's why I'm saying you have to - at least momentarily - set aside your presumptions. You can't hold to your beliefs while simultaneously trying to "see" another way of interpretation.

Go ahead then. Explain it.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I typically hold the resurrection of the just and unjust to have occurred around the time of the destruction of the Jerusalem. For in Daniel 12, we see that when the power of the holy people is shattered then would be completed the events of Daniel 12 which included the resurrection of the just and unjust.

this correlates nicely with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple occurring in the 1st century (this generation)and Paul’s statement that The resurrection of the just and unjust was “about to” occur (acts 24:15).

I view the 1st resurrection as being born again and the 2nd resurrection as going from natural body to spiritual body (1 Corinthians 15:44).

I typically don’t hold that the resurrection for believers is the Exact same as Christ’s. Christ’s flesh was prophesied to not see decay (acts 2:27). However believers were never given that same promise. I know plenty of believers whose flesh has decayed. Thus we go from natural body to spiritual body (1 Corinthians 15:44)

while dispensationalists typically hold to a rapture first, then resurrection of the dead (which is the exact opposite of scripture), I hold to the resurrection of the dead then After that, those who are in Christ are caught to be forever with the Lord, as stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. In other words, I hold that the resurrection of the just and unjust occurred around 66-70ad, and from that point on believers, who remain alive and physically die in the Lord are raised in a spiritual body and caught up to heaven. Thus this consummates the Ezekiel temple which is where Gods throne is and his footstool is (Ezekiel 43:6-7) where he forever dwells with his people

If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
There is nothing there explaining how the unjust are resurrected. If this is talking about a spiritual resurrection then how were the unjust spiritually resurrected in AD70?
Its there. It's just not what you're looking for - so you're probably missing it. The New Covenant brought life to ancient Israel. Look at the next verse. After this resurrection happens there will be believers leading many to righteousness:

Daniel 12:3 ~ Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

If this Resurrection will be at the end of time - as many believe - how could many be coming to righteousness after it happened?

The "wicked" (of ancient Israel) were given opportunity of this New Life given to them from the New Covenant (they were "dead"and condemned under the Law - not physically dead). Here's one example of that happening:

Acts 2:14-21, 36-41
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!c 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:17‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out My Spirit on all people.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,

your old men will dream dreams.18Even on My menservants and maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days,

and they will prophesy.19I will show wonders in the heavens above

and signs on the earth below,

blood and fire and billows of smoke.20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,

before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.21And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.’d

36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”40With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.g


So Daniel 12 talks about a time of great trouble, about a resurrection and then about many coming to righteousness. Notice what Jesus says in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:40 ~"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

So the time that Jesus is talking about here is the "end of the age." This is the same time that Daniel 12 talks about:

Daniel 12:13 ~"But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

There are only two ages talked about in the Bible, "this age," which was the Old Covenant age, and "the age to come" which was the New Covenant age. The New Covenant has no last days, no end time; so the end of the age must refer to the end of the Old Covenant.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Its there. It's just not what you're looking for - so you're probably missing it. The New Covenant brought life to ancient Israel. Look at the next verse. After this resurrection happens there will be believers leading many to righteousness:

Daniel 12:3 ~ Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

If this Resurrection will be at the end of time - as many believe - how could many be coming to righteousness after it happened?

The "wicked" (of ancient Israel) were given opportunity of this New Life given to them from the New Covenant (they were "dead"and condemned under the Law - not physically dead). Here's one example of that happening:

Acts 2:14-21, 36-41
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!c 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:17‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out My Spirit on all people.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,

your old men will dream dreams.18Even on My menservants and maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days,

and they will prophesy.19I will show wonders in the heavens above

and signs on the earth below,

blood and fire and billows of smoke.20The sun will be turned to darkness,
and the moon to blood,

before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.21And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.’d

36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”40With many other words he testified, and he urged them, “Be saved from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who embraced his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to the believers that day.g


So Daniel 12 talks about a time of great trouble, about a resurrection and then about many coming to righteousness. Notice what Jesus says in Matthew 13:

Matthew 13:40 ~"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

So the time that Jesus is talking about here is the "end of the age." This is the same time that Daniel 12 talks about:

Daniel 12:13 ~"But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

There are only two ages talked about in the Bible, "this age," which was the Old Covenant age, and "the age to come" which was the New Covenant age. The New Covenant has no last days, no end time; so the end of the age must refer to the end of the Old Covenant.

So unregenerate Israel experienced spiritual resurrection?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Just like I informed you a week ago. You are absolutely and utterly obsessed with AD70.
Here are some others that were also "absolutely and utterly obsessed with 70 AD":

"The coming of Christ in A.D.70 was a coming in judgment on the Jewish nation, indicating the end of the Jewish age and the fulfillment of a day of the Lord. Jesus really did come in judgment at this time, fulfilling his prophecy in the Olivet Discourse." (R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus, p. 158)

"It is no exaggeration to say that the Fall of Jerusalem is the most significant national event in the history of the world." (B.F. Dunelm, The Arch of Titus and the spoils of the temple (1896))

Justin Martyr (Approx. AD 150)

CHAP. XLVII.--DESOLATION OF JUDAEA FORETOLD.

That the land of the Jews, then, was to be laid waste, hear what was said by the Spirit of prophecy. And the words were spoken as if from the person of the people wondering at what had happened. They are these: "Sion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation. The house of our sanctuary has become a curse, and the glory which our fathers blessed is burned up with fire, and all its glorious things are laid waste: and Thou refrainest Thyself at these things, and hast held Thy peace, and hast humbled us very sore."(6) And ye are convinced that Jerusalem has been laid waste, as was predicted. And concerning its desolation, and that no one should be permitted to inhabit it, there was the following prophecy by Isaiah: "Their land is desolate, their enemies consume it before them, and none of them shall dwell therein."(7) And that it is guarded by you lest any one dwell in it, and that death is decreed against a Jew apprehended entering it, you know very well.(First Apology, Ch. 47.)​
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here are some others that were also "utterly obsessed with 70 AD":

"The coming of Christ in A.D.70 was a coming in judgment on the Jewish nation, indicating the end of the Jewish age and the fulfillment of a day of the Lord. Jesus really did come in judgment at this time, fulfilling his prophecy in the Olivet Discourse." (R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus, p. 158)

"It is no exaggeration to say that the Fall of Jerusalem is the most significant national event in the history of the world." (B.F. Dunelm, The Arch of Titus and the spoils of the temple (1896))​

Hold on here: they are not teaching what you are on this subject. Most Partial Preterists are not as extreme in their views as you are. Your's are more akin to Full Preterism.

It is always a sign that someone has lost the debate when they have to try and appeal to man to justify their error. In this case, the quotes have nothing to do with what you are claiming. Once again, you are are totally ducking around the issues. Please answer the simple question:

So, unregenerate Israel experienced spiritual resurrection back in AD70?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
So unregenerate Israel experienced spiritual resurrection?
They were given New Life from the New Covenant for 40 years. If they rejected the message of Jesus and His disciples - they experienced the judgement of the Day of the Lord in 70 AD. If a person is believing "all was finished at the Cross" this isn't going to make sense. ALL wasn't finished at the Cross. The creation of the New Heaven/New Earth was yet to be fulfilled prior to the destruction of the Temple.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
They were given New Life from the New Covenant for 40 years. If they rejected the message of Jesus and His disciples - they experienced the judgement of the Day of the Lord in 70 AD. If a person is believing "all was finished at the Cross" this isn't going to make sense. ALL wasn't finished at the Cross.

... but a few posts back you were equating resurrection as the ascent of the spirit of the believer upon death up into the presence of God in heaven. Your theology is so contradictory, full of holes and does not make sense. I think you are winging it. It seems like you do not have a clue what you believe.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.