Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Should Christians support Jerusalem Third Temple?

  • Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    Votes: 38 52.8%
  • I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No... this could cause a war to break out.

    Votes: 5 6.9%

  • Total voters
    72

DennisTate

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My answer would be a Maybe, leaning towards a No.

Maybe yes, we can help them rebuild the temple, but to partake in the rituals, that would be a huge NO.

The Jewish Orthodoxy (Judaism) is the modern day Pharisee sect.... Jesus warned us against them, read your Bibles.... Jesus went as far to tell their father is the devil.

The only thing that maybe of significance is the building....Imagine if we rebuild the temple and have the Jews defile the temple again.... Imagine what would Jesus do if He came and caught them in their act...

He won't be coming with a whip of cords this time and just overturning tables...but with all the glory and power of the Universe.

What do you think of these statements?

Grant Jeffrey:
"Some Christian commentators have suggested that the Antichrist will lead the project to rebuild the Temple. However, the evidence from Scripture causes me to take quite a different view. While numerous prophecies describe the Antichrist defiling the Temple, John refers to the sanctuary as the Temple of God. "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein" (Revelation 11:1). In addition, when the apostle Paul wrote about the Antichrist being revealed, he referred to evil acts that would be carried out in "the temple of God" (see 2 Thessalonians 2:4). These passages strongly suggest that the Jews in genuine worship of God will build the Third Temple and that the Antichrist will later defile it during the Tribulation. Fortunately, the Word of God reveals that when the Messiah comes, "then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Daniel 8:14).

One of the greatest of the early church writers, Irenaeus, taught that the new Temple would be a genuine Temple built by the religious Jews. Citing 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he stated that "the Apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God."

Further, in his book Against Heresies, Irenaeus affirmed his understanding of the Scriptures' prophecies about animal sacrifices being reinstated in a future Temple. He cited Daniel's words in Daniel 9:27, stating, "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation (shall) be brought in the Temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete." Again, for these prophetic events to occur, the Third Temple must be rebuilt by the Jews as a legitimate Temple of God" (Grant R. Jeffrey, The New Temple and the Second Coming, pages 19, 20)
 
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DennisTate

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Sanhedrin Asks Putin and Trump to Build Third Temple in Jerusalem
There ain't no Sanhedrin.

A lot of Christians and a lot of Jews may well agree with you in that idea..... but I believe that what has been began about a decade ago could turn out to be very very influential in how latter day events work out?
 
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JackRT

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Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple?

NO! Certainly not! Never!

It is none of our business either in a religious sense or in Israel as a secular nation. Every time we meddle in either the political or religious or social affairs of other people we cause huge disruption and frequently disaster. When will we ever learn?
 
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JLHargus

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JL: I support Israel, but what possible purpose could another earthly Jerusalem temple, with OT sacrifices serve to honor God? Those OT sacrifices would be an affront to their own Messiah, akin to a slap in the face to the crucified One.]

Long story short, there is only one covenant, one sacrifice, one temple, one gospel, one Davidic kingdom with which human beings, whether Jew or Gentile, can be saved or need to concern themselves. That would be the New Covenant, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the Temple=habitation of God which our High Priest, Prophet and King the son of David, Jesus, is building of living stones.

[Eph2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.]

[Gal3: 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise]

[Jn18:36 Jesus answered, my kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.]

The regenerated Davidic Kingdom is not of this world but the world to come. When there will be new heavens and new earth.

[Rv21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband].

[2Pt3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[Rv21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.]

[Rv3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.]

Jeremiah 33 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is [the name] whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.

JL: When will Jerusalem dwell in safely? When there is a new heaven and new earth.

[1Thes5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.]
 
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Copperhead

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Well, disregarding any new temple now, there will be a temple in the Messianic Kingdom and sacrifices will be made. Probably more as a visual aid to those mortals that go into the kingdom and their children to emphasize that it took the shedding of blood for sin.
 
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DennisTate

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JL: I support Israel, but what possible purpose could another earthly Jerusalem temple, with OT sacrifices serve to honor God? Those OT sacrifices would be an affront to their own Messiah, akin to a slap in the face to the crucified One.]

Long story short, there is only one covenant, one sacrifice, one temple, one gospel, one Davidic kingdom with which human beings, whether Jew or Gentile, can be saved or need to concern themselves. That would be the New Covenant, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the Temple=habitation of God which our High Priest, Prophet and King the son of David, Jesus, is building of living stones.

[Eph2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.]

[Gal3: 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise]

[Jn18:36 Jesus answered, my kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.]

The regenerated Davidic Kingdom is not of this world but the world to come. When there will be new heavens and new earth.

[Rv21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband].

[2Pt3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[Rv21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.]

[Rv3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.]

Jeremiah 33 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is [the name] whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.

JL: When will Jerusalem dwell in safely? When there is a new heaven and new earth.

[1Thes5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.]


Thank you for commenting.... but in my opinion we Christians have nearly lost track of the fact that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was Jewish.......
and I think we are missing the point as to why he overturned the tables of the money changers who were in the area of the Temple?

I am of the belief that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 47
will set in motion a series of events that will lead to the saving of millions..... if not even billions of lives.

47 And he brought me back unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward; (for the forefront of the house was toward the east;) and the waters came down from under, from the right side of the house, on the south of the altar.

2 Then he brought me out by the way of the gate northward, and led me round by the way without unto the outer gate, by the way of [the gate] that looketh toward the east; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

3 When the man went forth eastward with the line in his hand, he measured a thousand cubits, and he caused me to pass through the waters, waters that were to the ankles.

4 Again he measured a thousand, and caused me to pass through the waters, waters that were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and caused me to pass through [the waters], waters that were to the loins.

5 Afterward he measured a thousand; [and it was] a river that I could not pass through; for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed through.

6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen [this]? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the bank of the river.

7 Now when I had returned, behold, upon the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue forth toward the eastern region, and shall go down into the Arabah; and they shall go toward the sea; into the sea [shall the waters go] which were made to issue forth; and the waters shall be healed.

9 And it shall come to pass, that every living creature which swarmeth, in every place whither the rivers come, shall live; and there shall be a very great multitude of fish; for these waters are come thither, and [the waters of the sea] shall be healed, and everything shall live whithersoever the river cometh.

10 And it shall come to pass, that fishers shall stand by it: from En-gedi even unto En-eglaim shall be a place for the spreading of nets; their fish shall be after their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

11 But the miry places thereof, and the marshes thereof, shall not be healed; they shall be given up to salt.

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow every tree for food, whose leaf shall not whither, neither shall the fruit thereof fail: it shall bring forth new fruit every month, because the waters thereof issue out of the sanctuary; and the fruit thereof shall be for food, and the leaf thereof for healing.

13 Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: This shall be the border, whereby ye shall divide the land for inheritance according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph [shall have two] portions.

14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another; for I sware to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.

15 And this shall be the border of the land: On the north side, from the great sea, by the way of Hethlon, unto the entrance of Zedad; 16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim, which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath; Hazer-hatticon, which is by the border of Hauran.

17 And the border from the sea, shall be Hazar-enon at the border of Damascus; and on the north northward is the border of Hamath. This is the north side.

18 And the east side, between Hauran and Damascus and Gilead, and the land of Israel, shall be the Jordan; from the [north] border unto the east sea shall ye measure. This is the east side.

19 And the south side southward shall be from Tamar as far as the waters of Meriboth-kadesh, to the brook [of Egypt], unto the great sea. This is the south side southward.

20 And the west side shall be the great sea, from the [south] border as far as over against the entrance of Hamath. This is the west side.

21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.

22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you and to the strangers that sojourn among you, who shall beget children among you; and they shall be unto you as the home-born among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord Jehovah.
 
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DennisTate

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Well, disregarding any new temple now, there will be a temple in the Messianic Kingdom and sacrifices will be made. Probably more as a visual aid to those mortals that go into the kingdom and their children to emphasize that it took the shedding of blood for sin.

Well said!!!!

This is pretty much exactly the theory that the brilliant Grant R. Jeffrey put forward in a couple of his books on the topic.

Grant R. Jeffrey on a Jerusalem Third Temple.


"Some Christian commentators have suggested that the Antichrist will lead the project to rebuild the Temple. However, the evidence from Scripture causes me to take quite a different view. While numerous prophecies describe the Antichrist defiling the Temple, John refers to the sanctuary as the Temple of God. "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein" (Revelation 11:1). In addition, when the apostle Paul wrote about the Antichrist being revealed, he referred to evil acts that would be carried out in "the temple of God" (see 2 Thessalonians 2:4). These passages strongly suggest that the Jews in genuine worship of God will build the Third Temple and that the Antichrist will later defile it during the Tribulation. Fortunately, the Word of God reveals that when the Messiah comes, "then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (Daniel 8:14).

One of the greatest of the early church writers, Irenaeus, taught that the new Temple would be a genuine Temple built by the religious Jews. Citing 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he stated that "the Apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God."

Further, in his book Against Heresies, Irenaeus affirmed his understanding of the Scriptures' prophecies about animal sacrifices being reinstated in a future Temple. He cited Daniel's words in Daniel 9:27, stating, "the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation (shall) be brought in the Temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete." Again, for these prophetic events to occur, the Third Temple must be rebuilt by the Jews as a legitimate Temple of God" (Grant R. Jeffrey, The New Temple and the Second Coming, pages 19, 20)

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)
 
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JLHargus

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Thank you for commenting.... but in my opinion we Christians have nearly lost track of the fact that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was Jewish.......
and I think we are missing the point as to why he overturned the tables of the money changers who were in the area of the Temple?

I am of the belief that the fulfillment of Ezekiel 47
will set in motion a series of events that will lead to the saving of millions..... if not even billions of lives.

There may very well be billions more saved but it will be through the body of Christ, his bride the Church, from which living water will flow, from which living water=Holy Spirit will flow convicting the hearts of humanity.
 
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Copperhead

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Well said!!!!

This is pretty much exactly the theory that the brilliant Grant R. Jeffrey put forward in a couple of his books on the topic.

Grant R. Jeffrey on a Jerusalem Third Temple.

Didn't know he had commented on it. The only thing I have read from him is about the Ezekiel 4 / Leviticus 26 calculation leading up to May 1948.

It is true though, when Paul was arrested at the temple in Acts 21, he was on his way to make the Nazarite sacrifice at the temple after being instructed to do so by James of the Jerusalem church. And that was after Paul's 3 missionary journeys planting and teaching new congregations.

Most often, folks who get all worked up about sacrifices either in a temple in Israel that may be built soon, or the Messianic Kingdom temple, is that not all animal sacrifices are for sin. Folks need to blow the dust off their OT and read it once in a while instead of imposing their western mindset on the scripture and commenting on things they know nothing about.

Might help if they actually read the NT also.....

For instance, there was the sacrifice after a woman gave birth as a purification sacrifice. Giving birth is not a sin. Remember when Mary, Jesus' mother, offered that one? Hint... Luke 2:22-24. Even lays out the animal sacrifice in that passage. A pair of birds.

Paul taking a sacrifice to the temple in Acts 21 as part of the Nazarite vow is another example of a sacrifice being offered that had nothing to do with sin. It was the binding of an oath.

So all the arguing back and forth in this thread about sacrifices and a temple is pretty much irrelevant. Not all sacrifices are for sin, but have more to do with ceremonial stuff. And there will indeed be sacrifices in the Messianic Temple as outlined in the OT.

I am totally neutral about any moves to build a temple in Jerusalem today. If the scripture is right, then there has to be some sort of temple in the land to get defiled by the character that comes on the scene. I don't advocate for a temple being built, nor do I have a word against it. It is outside my pay grade to side one way or the other.
 
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JackRT

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I am totally neutral about any moves to build a temple in Jerusalem today. If the scripture is right, then there has to be some sort of temple in the land to get defiled by the character that comes on the scene. I don't advocate for a temple being built, nor do I have a word against it. It is outside my pay grade to side one way or the other.

Yes, it is absolutely none of our business.
 
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Copperhead

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There may very well be billions more saved but it will be through the body of Christ, his bride the Church, from which living water will flow, from which living water=Holy Spirit will flow convicting the hearts of humanity.

Well, from a spiritual point of view that has some validity. But Ezekiel's detailed description is not spiritual or allegorized. That kind of detail has to be a physical temple and supporting structures.

And something that many also don't quite seem to get is that the Messianic Kingdom is not going to be heaven on earth. There will be folks who make it thru the tribulation period, both Hebrew and Gentile, that will go into the kingdom. They will have children, and those children will have children. I anticipate quite a baby boom going on. And Yeshua will have to rule with a rod of iron according to the scripture. That implies He will have to put the heavy hand on those who get out of line. Even rain will be withheld from the land of those who do not go up to Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles. And it would seem that quite a bit of discontent grows over having Yeshua be a firm ruler. So much so that the nations want to throw off His rule (Psalms 2) and will outright rebel against Him when Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years. Even several of the kingdom parables of Matthew 13 imply that sin will be present and fester during that time.

So I see where a temple and sacrifice will be needed, if nothing else but for a visual aid to remind folks of the cost of sin.
 
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prodromos

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Didn't know he had commented on it. The only thing I have read from him is about the Ezekiel 4 / Leviticus 26 calculation leading up to May 1948.

It is true though, when Paul was arrested at the temple in Acts 21, he was on his way to make the Nazarite sacrifice at the temple after being instructed to do so by James of the Jerusalem church. And that was after Paul's 3 missionary journeys planting and teaching new congregations.

Most often, folks who get all worked up about sacrifices either in a temple in Israel that may be built soon, or the Messianic Kingdom temple, is that not all animal sacrifices are for sin. Folks need to blow the dust off their OT and read it once in a while instead of imposing their western mindset on the scripture and commenting on things they know nothing about.

Might help if they actually read the NT also.....

For instance, there was the sacrifice after a woman gave birth as a purification sacrifice. Giving birth is not a sin. Remember when Mary, Jesus' mother, offered that one? Hint... Luke 2:22-24. Even lays out the animal sacrifice in that passage. A pair of birds.

Paul taking a sacrifice to the temple in Acts 21 as part of the Nazarite vow is another example of a sacrifice being offered that had nothing to do with sin. It was the binding of an oath.

So all the arguing back and forth in this thread about sacrifices and a temple is pretty much irrelevant. Not all sacrifices are for sin, but have more to do with ceremonial stuff. And there will indeed be sacrifices in the Messianic Temple as outlined in the OT.

I am totally neutral about any moves to build a temple in Jerusalem today. If the scripture is right, then there has to be some sort of temple in the land to get defiled by the character that comes on the scene. I don't advocate for a temple being built, nor do I have a word against it. It is outside my pay grade to side one way or the other.
Many of the temple sacrifices were a means of providing food for the Levites, who owned no land or livestock and depended on the people's grain and animal offerings to keep from starving.
 
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Thank you for commenting.... but in my opinion we Christians have nearly lost track of the fact that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was Jewish.......

JL: I would say, it isn’t Christians losing track Jesus is Jewish, the problem is not understanding those in Christ are spiritual Jews and heirs of Abraham. Jew and Gentile are both reconciled into one body.

[Gal3: 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise]

[Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.]

[Rms2:8 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.]

[Col2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]

[1Cor15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.]

[Rms11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?]
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DennisTate

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JL: I would say, it isn’t Christians losing track Jesus is Jewish, the problem is not understanding those in Christ are spiritual Jews and heirs of Abraham. Jew and Gentile are both reconciled into one body.

[Gal3: 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise]

[Eph2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.]

[Rms2:8 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.]

[Col2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.]

[1Cor15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.]

[Rms11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?]
KJV biblegateway

My opinion on this as of January 7, 2020 is that both Jews as well as Christians make errors regarding all of this due to our being human.... and being affected by the general behaviour patterns of organizations.

Christian denominations and Jewish groupings, (Orthodox, Chassidic, Conservative, Reform or New Agie), tend to have biases that cause all of us to see the big picture imperfectly.

IF... this statement by Messiah applies only to the scriptures in the Jewish Bible on the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah..... (as many Christian seem to assume).... then this whole topic would look very differently than IF... this statement also refers to
Ezekiel 40
Ezekiel 41
Ezekiel 42
... and especially Ezekiel 47 ????

Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
 
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JLHargus

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Copperhead: Well, disregarding any new temple now, there will be a temple in the Messianic Kingdom and sacrifices will be made. Probably more as a visual aid to those mortals that go into the kingdom and their children to emphasize that it took the shedding of blood for sin. [/quote]

JL: Sorry about the long post, although I wanted to go on.

[Jn18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.] k All my posted scripture kjv biblegateway, unless stated otherwise.

I’m not sure what you mean by “Messianic Kingdom”. If you mean a literal thousand year reign, with Jesus physically present as king on this old un-generated earth instead of the re-generated new earth. Then I disagree. I see no evidence there will ever be a literal thousand year reign of Jesus on this present un-regenerated earth.

[Rms1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.] k

I can’t quite grasp why anyone would believe there is one way for Gentiles to be saved and a totally different way for Jews.

I also can’t understand why anyone could not see how offensive it would be for Jesus to be present at a “visual aid sacrifice” or any other sacrifice when he gave his body and shed his blood as the Lamb of God, the only acceptable sacrifice that takes away the sins of all those that believes, Jew and Gentile? Jesus instituted a memorial sacrifice at the last supper.

[Gn14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.]

[Ps110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.] k

[Hb7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.]

There has been a change of priesthood. The Aaronic priesthood, the old temple, Jerusalem along with Israel were judged in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70AD. There is only one priesthood and one sacrifice acceptable today, in the order of Melchisedec, that can be pleasing to God. Sacrifice has been a constant form of worship of God since Cain and Able and will continue to the end.

Paul tells us in Corinthians:

[Lk22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer:]

[Lk24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. … 31-34 … 35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed Jn6:55.]

[1Cor10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.]

[Hb3:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.]

Paul clearly teaches the Lord’s supper is a sacrifice.

[1Cor11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.]

Paul gives two options for discerning and eating, worthily or unworthily. Those who eat unworthily are those who do not discern the Lord’s body. Jn6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.]

[Acts2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. … 43-45 …. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,] When the Church came together it was to eat the Lord’s supper. They continued stedfastly in Breaking of bread=Lord’s supper=Mass and prayers=liturgy. One apostolic doctrine, One Fellowship One sacrifice.

The pure offering=sacrifice Gentiles will offer from sun up to sun down is the Lord’s supper. The offering celebrated every day by ever priest around the world from sun up to sun down. The wedding supper of the Lamb, our todah=our thank offering=Eucharist, a living memorial sacrifice Made present to us. The once for all sacrifice of the cross of the Lamb of God. Our Passover Lamb which we eat as Israel ate their Passover lamb.
 
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JLHargus

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My opinion on this as of January 7, 2020 is that both Jews as well as Christians make errors regarding all of this due to our being human.... and being affected by the general behaviour patterns of organizations.

Christian denominations and Jewish groupings, (Orthodox, Chassidic, Conservative, Reform or New Agie), tend to have biases that cause all of us to see the big picture imperfectly.

IF... this statement by Messiah applies only to the scriptures in the Jewish Bible on the death, burial and resurrection of Messiah..... (as many Christian seem to assume).... then this whole topic would look very differently than IF... this statement also refers to
Ezekiel 40
Ezekiel 41
Ezekiel 42
... and especially Ezekiel 47 ????

Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

I am open to read your best specific points in Ezekiel.
 
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Copperhead

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I’m not sure what you mean by “Messianic Kingdom”. If you mean a literal thousand year reign, with Jesus physically present as king on this old un-generated earth instead of the re-generated new earth. Then I disagree. I see no evidence there will ever be a literal thousand year reign of Jesus on this present un-regenerated earth.

Well, the disciples seem to think there was going to be a kingdom.

Acts 1:6 (NKJV) Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

At which Yeshua did not rebuke them for asking such a question, as it was valid. Many of the OT Prophets refer to Israel being restored with the Messiah reigning over it. He told them that it was not up to them but up to the Father when these things would happen. Since they seem to think a restored Israel Kingdom with the Messiah as head of it, according to the scripture, seem to be a real idea to them. We might want to think so also.

And also, if there is not a restored earth with the Messianic Kingdom, when who will we be ruling over with a rod of iron along side of Him? Revelation 2:26-27 Was John just making stuff up as he went along? And notice, it is ruling with a rod of iron. That implies a dictatorial firm kingdom where rule of law will be strictly enforced. And that conforms to a restored earth with the Messiah ruling over it. Not to be confused with the New Earth of Revelation 21 after the old earth is passed away. A restored, present earth is in view.

If there is not a 1000 year period of that, then what is Revelation 20 all about? Just filler so that Revelation would be 22 chapters instead of 21?
 
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