Wheat and tares look a lot alike. God said He will separate them.Then shouldn't you call them something else?
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Wheat and tares look a lot alike. God said He will separate them.Then shouldn't you call them something else?
lol.. we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.That verse talks about those who fall away. I have not fallen away. Therefore it's not addressed to me. Nor is it addressed to any other believer. And since it is impossible for those who have been saved to become unsaved, it does not apply to any other 21st century Christian.
Aside from that, it does not say that I crucified Christ 2000 years ago, nor that I am responsible for His crucifixion in the present. The Bible nowhere says that Gentile believers in the future are responsible for Jesus crucifixion. It also doesn't say that Jewish believers in the past, before Christ came the first time, were responsible for His crucifixion. And finally, the Bible nowhere says that believers in the New Testament, at the time of Christ, or between then and now, are responsible for nailing Jesus to the cross.
I think this is one of those christian myths that gets passed around because it sounds spiritual, even though there is not a single
shred of biblical evidence to support it.
I also think that people who are drawn to legalistic systems like this kind of idea because they can use the concept to heap guilt on people and control them. I used to have a pastor who liked this concept. He was a legalist.
The only reference I can find about me and the cross is being crucified with Christ, crucifixion of the flesh and its passions, and being identified with His death via crucifixion. That is an entirely different emphasis than "You crucified Jesus".
brinny said: ↑
It's clear what was it Jesus died for.
And i'm not arguing. I'm merely pointing out a verse that speaks for itself.
Ok, Lets think this through together. According to your interpretation of John 3:16, Nicodemus understood that he was responsible for driving the nails in Jesus hands and feet, for nailing Jesus to the cross, that night when he heard John 3:16. Correct? Is that what your saying?
And to take it one step further, all of the disciples in the New Testament would have understood that same concept. And to go one more step, therefore every human bring who has ever existed is directly responsible for nailing Jesus to the cross, for killing Jesus, because of John 3:16. That's what I am hearing you say. Is that correct?
Correct.And to go one more step, therefore every human bring who has ever existed is directly responsible for nailing Jesus to the cross, for killing Jesus, because of John 3:16. That's what I am hearing you say. Is that correct?
Word for word what some have said, you're just not going to find that in the Bible. What they said is a summary put into their own words.Hi, many times I have heard well meaning Christians say something akin to I am (or my sin is) responsible for driving the nails into Christ, hanging Him on the cross, His crucifixion, or something like that.
I'm looking for the specific verse(s) that say that. Not imply, but say it. Not looking for brand interpretation or church fathers, but Bible verses only.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks. I have never seen it expressed verbatim in Scripture.Why I'm looking for it is not relevant. I'm simply asking if the passage exists. I may have missed it, but I cannot find that idea / concept stated explicitly. My reasons are personal.
Just because Jesus died for the sins of the world does not mean that I am responsible for driving the nails in His hands.
As I said earlier, I suspect this is a modern idea that comes out of someone's theological system rather than the Bible.
Thanks. I have never seen it expressed verbatim in Scripture.
Acts of the Apostles 3:12-15 states that the Children of Israel of His own generation killed Him.
But, again, the inference is that as we are sinners who needed saving, Christ died for us. Without our sin and without our need for Him, He would not have died.
I see what you are saying, though, and to answer the actual question, no, the phrase is not in Scripture word for word as far as I know.
Thanks, Scruffy. I have also had to sift through a lot of phrasology and expressions which are sort of deeply embedded in Christian thought and theology, but which are closer to catchphrases than Truth. Still sifting. I have had to stop listening to Christian radio for a while, and just hone in on creeds, the Scripture, and some devotions. Keep it real basic. The sheer amount of theoloical noise can become disorienting, and confusing.Thank you for your thoughtful reply. This question came up as I was sifting through some of the teachings from a legalistic church I left. This saying was one of many sayings the pastor had which were not in the Bible, but he used them because they sounded spiritual. They were essentially christian myths. He would use them to make his points often in the place of the Bible. I have never seen it.
Now on the subject of Jesus dying for our sin, and the sin of the whole world, I completely understand that my sin is included there.
I find it interesting though that people often jump to conclusions simply based on the question you ask.
Anyway, thanks.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. This question came up as I was sifting through some of the teachings from a legalistic church I left. This saying was one of many sayings the pastor had which were not in the Bible, but he used them because they sounded spiritual. They were essentially christian myths. He would use them to make his points often in the place of the Bible. I have never seen it.
Now on the subject of Jesus dying for our sin, and the sin of the whole world, I completely understand that my sin is included there.
I find it interesting though that people often jump to conclusions simply based on the question you ask.
Anyway, thanks.
I am curious to learn what you would identify as a "legalistic church"?
What form of "legalism" did that church advocate - that imagine was a part of the cause - for which you left?