So there were only 12 9/11 terrorists and Iran was involved (according to Us vice president)

Vylo said:

I would have kept the Iran Nuclear deal in place and tried to avoid the whole thing. I would have tried to work on getting Iran into a position where their people would see the prosperity and freedom that comes with not being in a theocratic state and tried to help them move towards that.

By dashing the deal, Trump made escalation almost inevitable. But he didn't have to compound it by treating another one of our allies (the Iraqi government) like trash and violating their sovereignty. He could have struck targets in Iran in retaliation and most folks would have barely batted an eye.

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And now, of course, the deal is fully and officially down the toilet.

Aryeh Jay said:

Not the first Crusade. And they didn’t have such a skilled leader like Donald Trump leading the charge.

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If Donald plans to lead the charge on this crusade, then I'm all for war with Iran.

I'm sure the army can issue some orthopedic boots for those darn bone spurs that he has... and all his supporters will suddenly develop.

TLK Valentine said:

And now, of course, the deal is fully and officially down the toilet.

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Not according to the news this afternoon.

timothyu said:

Not according to the news this afternoon.

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According to the news this evening...

Iran Challenges Trump, Announcing End of Nuclear Restrictions

TLK Valentine said:

According to the news this evening...

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Another peeing contest.. yawn.

TLK Valentine said:

And now, of course, the deal is fully and officially down the toilet.

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The Iranian people are nothing like their leadership. They are not the problem. The hardliners who run the country are the problem. They've been promising to obliterate Israel since they ousted the Shah. They effectively declared war on the USA when they invaded the US embassy. War is not the simple nation against nation scenario any more. It's being fought by proxies, terrorists, militias, cyber attacks, and religious fanatics. The innocent suffer just as much as any other war. Or maybe more. Iran will not be satisfied until they have destroyed Israel. They simply want to rule the roost in the Middle East. So much for the religion of peace.

Aussie Pete said:

The Iranian people are nothing like their leadership. They are not the problem. The hardliners who run the country are the problem. They've been promising to obliterate Israel since they ousted the Shah. They effectively declared war on the USA when they invaded the US embassy. War is not the simple nation against nation scenario any more. It's being fought by proxies, terrorists, militias, cyber attacks, and religious fanatics. The innocent suffer just as much as any other war. Or maybe more. Iran will not be satisfied until they have destroyed Israel. They simply want to rule the roost in the Middle East. So much for the religion of peace.

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And the rest of the world had them on a nuclear leash...until this incredibly narcissistic fool became aware that that ‘leash’ had been purchased and fitted by Obama...

The deal was working.......and now, as TLK Valentine so eloquently paints it, it’s down the dunny (AUS slang for toilet)...

Allandavid said:

And the rest of the world had them on a nuclear leash...until this incredibly narcissistic fool became aware that that ‘leash’ had been purchased and fitted by Obama...

The deal was working.......and now, as TLK Valentine so eloquently paints it, it’s down the dunny (AUS slang for toilet)...

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"The deal was working"....... you really believe that? The only hope for Iran is the end of Muslim rule. It may well happen from within. Many Muslims are turning away from Islam and coming to Christ. No one saw the demise of the USSR, but it happened. I am not a warmonger, but I do understand the mentality that produces conflict. The primary reason is ego and the sad reality that it's not the people who start the war who are on the front lines. If Iran quit threatening Israel and the US dealt with Iran as a nation of equals, there might just be a chance for peace. I'm not holding my breath.

Aussie Pete said:

"The deal was working"....... you really believe that?

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It’s not a matter of ‘belief’ ....it’s a matter of observing the facts. Iran was able to be regularly inspected for their nuclear development activity. They were abiding by the treaty. Now? They’re likely to become a nuclear power...

The only hope for Iran is the end of Muslim rule. It may well happen from within. Many Muslims are turning away from Islam and coming to Christ. No one saw the demise of the USSR, but it happened. I am not a warmonger, but I do understand the mentality that produces conflict. The primary reason is ego and the sad reality that it's not the people who start the war who are on the front lines. If Iran quit threatening Israel and the US dealt with Iran as a nation of equals, there might just be a chance for peace. I'm not holding my breath.

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Replacing one religious fundamentalism with another is not a solution...

Aussie Pete said:

They effectively declared war on the USA when they invaded the US embassy.

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Didn't the US effectively declare war when they overthrew the Iranian government and installed a puppet dictator?

Kentonio said:

Didn't the US effectively declare war when they overthrew the Iranian government and installed a puppet dictator?

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How far back are you referencing?

LoveOurNeighbor said:

So there were only 12 9/11 terrorists and Iran was involved (according to Us vice president)

A severe problem with that spin was that usam bin ladin is Sunni and Sunni supported...Iran is shiite

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I'm not sure being factually wrong is a "severe problem", given the target audience of such claims.

Aussie Pete said:

The Iranian people are nothing like their leadership. They are not the problem.

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Well, that's unfortunate, because they're the ones who are going to die in the airstrikes Donald will order in the upcoming war, they're the ones who will lose homes, families, and everything else in the aftermath, and they're the ones who we will turn away and send back when they show up as refugees... straight back to those hardliners.

They're not "the problem" now... give them a few years of endless war and let's hope that doesn't change. But whatever you do, don't claim that they'll welcome us as liberators... that line's been used.

The hardliners who run the country are the problem. They've been promising to obliterate Israel since they ousted the Shah.

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1. Whether or not that's credible is Israel's problem, not ours.

2. Ah, the Shah... you mean the puppet we installed? Worked like a charm, didn't it?

They effectively declared war on the USA when they invaded the US embassy.

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According to Donald, who needs a good war right about now.

War is not the simple nation against nation scenario any more. It's being fought by proxies, terrorists, militias, cyber attacks, and religious fanatics. The innocent suffer just as much as any other war. Or maybe more.

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And so they will, now that Donald has chosen to escalate it to an actual shooting war... especially the Iranian people who so far, are nothing like their leadership. But people tend to go hardline in response to a real or percieved threat...

Iran will not be satisfied until they have destroyed Israel.

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Them and everyone else who's not Israel, but Israel's a big boy, they can take care of themselves.

They simply want to rule the roost in the Middle East.

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Unless we do it first, right?

So much for the religion of peace.

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Ah, so this is a crusade against Islam... well, we've got a few million Muslims in this country; better round them up and check for sleeper cells...

Aussie Pete said:

"The deal was working"....... you really believe that?

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We believe what every American and international inspection agency was saying... that Iran was in compliance.

After all, why wouldn't they be? It was a good deal where everyone got something that they wanted.

The only hope for Iran is the end of Muslim rule.

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Ah, Islam Delenda Est. I trust you'll be enlisting to serve on the front lines of the Crusade?

It may well happen from within. Many Muslims are turning away from Islam and coming to Christ.

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It might very well have... until now. Radical religious fundamentalism is reactionary in nature. People don't go fundie because of what they're for, but because of what they're against -- it's a response to a real or percieved threat...

And Donald has given them a new reason to be against the West. Leave it to him to turn gold into lead... and then lead into excrement.

No one saw the demise of the USSR, but it happened.

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Because they tried to match Reagan's reckless military spending... and their economy collapsed before ours could.

Funny thing about "playing chicken..." there are no winners or losers, just idiots.

I am not a warmonger, but I do understand the mentality that produces conflict. The primary reason is ego and the sad reality that it's not the people who start the war who are on the front lines.

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As I've said before, I'm sure the military can design some orthopedic boots for the bone spurs Donald's supporters will be developing in the immediate future.

If Iran quit threatening Israel and the US dealt with Iran as a nation of equals, there might just be a chance for peace. I'm not holding my breath.

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Israel is a grown-up country... it's up to them to determine if and when Iran's threats are credible, and act accordingly.

Welcome to planet Earth, where half the people want the other half dead... that's become so normalized, that in the Christian tradition, the guy who steps up and makes any kind of headway to fix it will be condemned as the Antichrist.

Personally, I'm not worried about Iran's huffing and puffing. Most intelligent leaders know the difference between real threats and hot air. It's when they stop yelling and start plotting that you need to worry.

In fact, the Russians have a proverb, IIRC:

Rattling a saber makes noise;
Drawing it does not.

Allandavid said:

The deal was working.......and now, as TLK Valentine so eloquently paints it, it’s down the dunny (AUS slang for toilet)...

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I learn something new every day...

FenderTL5 said:

How far back are you referencing?

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1953, of course. That may seem like a long time ago to you, but the Iranians have not forgotten.

Aussie Pete said:

"The deal was working"....... you really believe that? The only hope for Iran is the end of Muslim rule. It may well happen from within. Many Muslims are turning away from Islam and coming to Christ. No one saw the demise of the USSR, but it happened. I am not a warmonger, but I do understand the mentality that produces conflict. The primary reason is ego and the sad reality that it's not the people who start the war who are on the front lines. If Iran quit threatening Israel and the US dealt with Iran as a nation of equals, there might just be a chance for peace. I'm not holding my breath.

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....what's in place now to monitor the Iranian nuclear program?

Kentonio said:

Didn't the US effectively declare war when they overthrew the Iranian government and installed a puppet dictator?

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Oh, that old thing?

Aryeh Jay said:

I am more than confident that the people we send to die in Iran will be happy with the reward Donald promises.

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"No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him. "—2 Tim. 2:4

Since we have an all-volunteer army I hope Paul's soldier is the kind we get more often than not.