And yet I think that one problem that persists is that people do conjure up ideas about God, based on their particular interpretation of Scripture combined with their own human limitations and preferences. It's just pretty hard to get away from without some external, objective interpreter.Offering some quotes for discussion.
We must allow God to decide who he is and how he will interact with us. Because of our on-going struggle with sin, we all struggle to do this in different ways. There are aspects of God’s revelation of himself in the Bible that we especially like, and there are characteristics we think he should, or should not, possess. And in our minds we start to make these things the central defining point of who we think God is. Any time someone says (or thinks), “I like to think of God as …” that individual is on dangerous ground...When we substitute an idea of who God should be for who he really is, we’re idolaters. At the end of the day, putting it as kindly as I can, it is irrelevant whether or not you or I “like to think of God” in particular ways.
God—the one who created all that exists and reigns over it, the one who providentially guides every facet of his creation, including us, the one “in [whom] we live and move and have our being” (Acts of The Apostles 17:28)—has the right to be God. He tells us who he is, what he is like, who we are, and how he will be in relationship with us. It’s not up to us to conjure up what we think he should be like. We, like Isaiah, are “people of unclean lips.” Our attitude towards the Lord must be one of awe and reverence, for “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:3,5). God is God; we are not.—-Shawn D. Wright
Things to consider we hu-mans may not like.“Because God is who he is, the covenant Lord, he is not required to defend himself against charges of injustice. He is the judge, not we.” —John Frame
God chose his people for his glory (Ephesians 1:4–6). He created us for his glory (Isaiah 43: 6–7). He called Israel for his glory (Isaiah 49:3; Jeremiah 13:11). He restored Israel from exile for the glory of his name (Ezekiel 36:22–23, 32). Jesus receives us into his fellowship for the glory of God (Romans 15:7). We are to do everything for God’s glory (1 Corinthians 10:31). Jesus’s supreme aim is that we would see and enjoy his glory (John 17:24). God’s glory, his supremacy, is one result of his sovereignty.
Well the thread is about how God reveals Himself to mankind.And yet I think that one problem that persists is that people do conjure up ideas about God, based on their particular interpretation of Scripture combined with their own human limitations and preferences. It's just pretty hard to get away from without some external, objective interpreter.
Hello again Akita, that is one possibility, I suppose. The thing is, He already did that in the OT. He lived among the people, told them exactly what they needed to know and do, and even led them personally (e.g. in a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night, etc.).
So, why did He change and decide to go with such extreme measures in the 1st Century if just showing us the way was His intention?
Also, why did God send His only begotten Son here to die that HORRIBLE death on the Cross if it was not ABSOLUTELY necessary for our sake that He do so If the Cross/the shed blood of the spotless Lamb of God was not necessary to make salvation possible for us, and He sent His Son here anyway, that would make the Father a monster, not loving, wouldn't it?
Thanks!
--David
p.s. - here are a couple of verses that should prove to be useful.
Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
God does not" guide" sin. We should praise him for that as well as the fact that everything good comes from him.God—the one who created all that exists and reigns over it, the one who providentially guides every facet of his creation, including us, the one “in [whom] we live and move and have our being” (Acts of The Apostles 17:28)—has the right to be God. He tells us who he is, what he is like, who we are, and how he will be in relationship with us. It’s not up to us to conjure up what we think he should be like. We, like Isaiah, are “people of unclean lips.” Our attitude towards the Lord must be one of awe and reverence, for “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:3,5). God is God; we are not.—-Shawn D.
Yes God’s love, mercy and grace are indeed the reason Jesus died for us. But that’s not all. Jesus also satisfied the justice due us as sinners.What makes the death and blood of Christ so effective is the love it represents. Humans killed Jesus. That was our choice. Jesus accepted it as part of his witness to love. And he was shrewd enough to correlate it with the Passover sacrifice because he chose to continued knowing what would happen.
So they believed in the atonement for their sins by Jesus Christ? That would make them Christians.i have know quite a few Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists and some were more Christian than Many Christians. It could be that part of being a good Christian is being able to recognize him in others.
Where did you get that from?God does not" guide" sin. We should praise him for that as well as the fact that everything good comes from him.
But they would reject Christianity for themselves and for others. They would never confess Jesus as Lord and promote His cause. Their religion forbids it. Jesus considers them to be His enemies.i have know quite a few Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists and some were more Christian than Many Christians. It could be that part of being a good Christian is being able to recognize him in others.
Yes God’s love, mercy and grace are indeed the reason Jesus died for us. But that’s not all. Jesus also satisfied the justice due us as sinners.
How much of the Bible have you read? I ask because it is quite clear God’s Justice must be satisfied.Justice? How does punishing the innocent for the guilty satisfy justice? And God, the injured party in the first place, taking that punishment?
Hello Akita, if there was another way, a way that did not necessitate the shedding of Jesus' blood to secure our salvation, then neither His Incarnation, nor His death on the Cross, would have happened. But they did.What kind of God requires the death of his son, or anyone, in order to forgive?
Cover to cover.How much of the Bible have you read? I ask because it is quite clear God’s Justice must be satisfied.
Of course.James 1:17
Dear St Worm2, just how does the death of Jesus save us? As a blood sacrifice as in the Old Testament? Does it appease the Father? Is it penal substitution? I think there are better ways to view it. Recapitulation for instance, or moral example.Hello Akita, if there was another way, a way that did not necessitate the shedding of Jesus' blood to secure our salvation, then neither His Incarnation, nor His death on the Cross, would have happened. But they did.
The Father loves us, so much so that when all else failed, He sent His only, begotten Son to the Cross to die for us. And Jesus willingly obeyed His Father and went to the Cross on our behalf (His promised bride), for the very same reason, because of His great love for us, because there was no other way to save us!
That's the "kind" of God He is
--David
Where do you find this universal religion god in the Scriptures and in your own Roman Catholic teachings. A God who does not exercise Justice?Cover to cover.