“Let God be God”

fhansen

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Offering some quotes for discussion.

We must allow God to decide who he is and how he will interact with us. Because of our on-going struggle with sin, we all struggle to do this in different ways. There are aspects of God’s revelation of himself in the Bible that we especially like, and there are characteristics we think he should, or should not, possess. And in our minds we start to make these things the central defining point of who we think God is. Any time someone says (or thinks), “I like to think of God as …” that individual is on dangerous ground...When we substitute an idea of who God should be for who he really is, we’re idolaters. At the end of the day, putting it as kindly as I can, it is irrelevant whether or not you or I “like to think of God” in particular ways.

God—the one who created all that exists and reigns over it, the one who providentially guides every facet of his creation, including us, the one “in [whom] we live and move and have our being” (Acts of The Apostles 17:28)—has the right to be God. He tells us who he is, what he is like, who we are, and how he will be in relationship with us. It’s not up to us to conjure up what we think he should be like. We, like Isaiah, are “people of unclean lips.” Our attitude towards the Lord must be one of awe and reverence, for “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:3,5). God is God; we are not.—-Shawn D. Wright

“Because God is who he is, the covenant Lord, he is not required to defend himself against charges of injustice. He is the judge, not we.” —John Frame
Things to consider we hu-mans may not like.

God chose his people for his glory (Ephesians 1:4–6). He created us for his glory (Isaiah 43: 6–7). He called Israel for his glory (Isaiah 49:3; Jeremiah 13:11). He restored Israel from exile for the glory of his name (Ezekiel 36:22–23, 32). Jesus receives us into his fellowship for the glory of God (Romans 15:7). We are to do everything for God’s glory (1 Corinthians 10:31). Jesus’s supreme aim is that we would see and enjoy his glory (John 17:24). God’s glory, his supremacy, is one result of his sovereignty.
And yet I think that one problem that persists is that people do conjure up ideas about God, based on their particular interpretation of Scripture combined with their own human limitations and preferences. It's just pretty hard to get away from without some external, objective interpreter.
 
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redleghunter

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And yet I think that one problem that persists is that people do conjure up ideas about God, based on their particular interpretation of Scripture combined with their own human limitations and preferences. It's just pretty hard to get away from without some external, objective interpreter.
Well the thread is about how God reveals Himself to mankind.

It’s when one tries to “what if” what is not revealed is where the problem comes in.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Hello again Akita, that is one possibility, I suppose. The thing is, He already did that in the OT. He lived among the people, told them exactly what they needed to know and do, and even led them personally (e.g. in a cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night, etc.).

So, why did He change and decide to go with such extreme measures in the 1st Century if just showing us the way was His intention?

Also, why did God send His only begotten Son here to die that HORRIBLE death on the Cross if it was not ABSOLUTELY necessary for our sake that He do so :scratch: If the Cross/the shed blood of the spotless Lamb of God was not necessary to make salvation possible for us, and He sent His Son here anyway, that would make the Father a monster, not loving, wouldn't it?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - here are a couple of verses that should prove to be useful.

Hebrews 9
22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.


In answer to your first question, I think Jesus answered it in the parabol of the landlord and tenants.
Mark 12:1-8
It is all about love.

And speaking of "monster" and horrible death, how is your version any better. What kind of God requires the death of his son, or anyone, in order to forgive?

What makes the death and blood of Christ so effective is the love it represents. Humans killed Jesus. That was our choice. Jesus accepted it as part of his witness to love. And he was shrewd enough to correlate it with the Passover sacrifice because he chose to continued knowing what would happen.

At least that makes more sense to me. Otherwise we are willling to accept the damnation of billions regardless of the love they lived.
 
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renniks

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God—the one who created all that exists and reigns over it, the one who providentially guides every facet of his creation, including us, the one “in [whom] we live and move and have our being” (Acts of The Apostles 17:28)—has the right to be God. He tells us who he is, what he is like, who we are, and how he will be in relationship with us. It’s not up to us to conjure up what we think he should be like. We, like Isaiah, are “people of unclean lips.” Our attitude towards the Lord must be one of awe and reverence, for “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:3,5). God is God; we are not.—-Shawn D.
God does not" guide" sin. We should praise him for that as well as the fact that everything good comes from him.
 
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redleghunter

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What makes the death and blood of Christ so effective is the love it represents. Humans killed Jesus. That was our choice. Jesus accepted it as part of his witness to love. And he was shrewd enough to correlate it with the Passover sacrifice because he chose to continued knowing what would happen.
Yes God’s love, mercy and grace are indeed the reason Jesus died for us. But that’s not all. Jesus also satisfied the justice due us as sinners.
 
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redleghunter

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i have know quite a few Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists and some were more Christian than Many Christians. It could be that part of being a good Christian is being able to recognize him in others.
So they believed in the atonement for their sins by Jesus Christ? That would make them Christians.
 
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royal priest

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royal priest

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i have know quite a few Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists and some were more Christian than Many Christians. It could be that part of being a good Christian is being able to recognize him in others.
But they would reject Christianity for themselves and for others. They would never confess Jesus as Lord and promote His cause. Their religion forbids it. Jesus considers them to be His enemies.
Matthew 12:20
Whoever is not with Me is against Me, and whoever does not gather with Me scatters.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Yes God’s love, mercy and grace are indeed the reason Jesus died for us. But that’s not all. Jesus also satisfied the justice due us as sinners.

Justice? How does punishing the innocent for the guilty satisfy justice? And God, the injured party in the first place, taking that punishment?
 
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redleghunter

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Justice? How does punishing the innocent for the guilty satisfy justice? And God, the injured party in the first place, taking that punishment?
How much of the Bible have you read? I ask because it is quite clear God’s Justice must be satisfied.
 
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St_Worm2

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What kind of God requires the death of his son, or anyone, in order to forgive?
Hello Akita, if there was another way, a way that did not necessitate the shedding of Jesus' blood to secure our salvation, then neither His Incarnation, nor His death on the Cross, would have happened. But they did.

The Father loves us, so much so that when all else failed, He sent His only, begotten Son to the Cross to die for us. And Jesus willingly obeyed His Father and went to the Cross on our behalf (His promised bride), for the very same reason, because of His great love for us, because there was no other way to save us!

That's the "kind" of God He is :)

--David
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Hello Akita, if there was another way, a way that did not necessitate the shedding of Jesus' blood to secure our salvation, then neither His Incarnation, nor His death on the Cross, would have happened. But they did.

The Father loves us, so much so that when all else failed, He sent His only, begotten Son to the Cross to die for us. And Jesus willingly obeyed His Father and went to the Cross on our behalf (His promised bride), for the very same reason, because of His great love for us, because there was no other way to save us!

That's the "kind" of God He is :)

--David
Dear St Worm2, just how does the death of Jesus save us? As a blood sacrifice as in the Old Testament? Does it appease the Father? Is it penal substitution? I think there are better ways to view it. Recapitulation for instance, or moral example.

Good night for now.
 
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Beanieboy

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After years of reading Christian comments, I have found that the God one knows is a reflection of one's heart. If you are an angry person, you talk a lot of the OT. Your God destroys evil cities and floods the world. in the NT, you focus on Jesus' harsh rebukes. The take away from the adutress about to be stoned: Go and sin no more! This God's focus is on sin, and complete obedience. Love only comes in the tough love flavor of stern disciplining.

If you believe un respecting view, beliefs, cultures different than yours, you have a God of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness who tells you to love your neihhbor as yourself.

I find trying to put God into words rather difficult: a being? physical being? a spirit? an old man in a white robe and big long beard? Energy?

And as i discussed this once online, someone used the pronoun she. Some Christians were very adamant that God the Father is male. I said that God is probably both, being all things. Again, the insisted he is male, not taking into account the patriarchal society the writers of the Bible lived in.

I said, "you believe the father has a human body, and a penis?"

This caused a great sense of "Well I never..." When the doctor delivers a baby, he looks at the genitals, and declares male or female. Not sure why gender would matter so much.
 
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