You did not chose Me, I chose you.

Oldmantook

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Nothing about if you sin you die. Sorry.
In this particular verse, Paul is writing to the brethren in Rome warning them that IF they sin (live according to the flesh), they will die in Romans 8:13. Spiritual death, not physical death is being referred to here because everyone dies physically irrespective of the manner of lifestyle they live so Paul is saying if you as a believer live a lifestyle of sin, you will spiritually die.
 
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Hammster

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In this particular verse, Paul is writing to the brethren in Rome warning them that IF they sin (live according to the flesh), they will die in Romans 8:13. Spiritual death, not physical death is being referred to here because everyone dies physically irrespective of the manner of lifestyle they live so Paul is saying if you as a believer live a lifestyle of sin, you will spiritually die.
Everyone sins.
 
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Der Alte

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<OM>Don't be hasty in forming your conclusion. When aionios is combined with theos/God, it does not take away from God's eternal nature. Instead it demonstrates the manner in which God goes about doing His business - according to ages of time. Thus God is eternal but he goes about relating to his creation "age-during." Thus He is the age-during God.
Having said that, there is a single verse in the NT which refers to God's eternal nature and power. But appropriately that verse does not use the word aionios, aionion, aioniou, etc. Instead it uses the word aidios to refer to God's attributes. Rom 1:20 states:
"Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal (aidios | ἀΐδιος | nom sg fem) power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made. So they are without excuse."<OM>
I have been active at this forum for about 2 decades. So I have heard the argument that aionios never means eternal countless time. I could post the complete definition of aionios from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available, but folks have claimed that venerable resource is biased etc
. Since I am retired X3 and I have ample time to research, I decided to research every occurrence of aionios in the NT.
In twenty four [24] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
List of verses:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 6:27,
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

[1]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[2]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[3]Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[5]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only lasts a little longer which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[7]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
[8] 1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[9]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[10]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[11]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[Continued next post-character limit]
 
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Der Alte

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[Previous post continued]
[12]1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, A “finite period” is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”
[13]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[14]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[15]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
[17] John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
[18] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[19]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[20]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[21]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[22] John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse aionios life is contrasted with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[23] John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse aionios is contrasted with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[24]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse “aionios meat” is contrasted with “meat that perishes” .” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[25]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent "The double negative “ ου μη/ou mé” signifies in nowise, by no means." Unless Jesus is saying whoever obeys Him will die, i.e. see death, unto the age, by definition aion means eternity.
 
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Oldmantook

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Everyone sins.
Indeed everyone sins but not everyone lives a lifestyle of sin and therein lies the difference.
Paul chose his verb tenses carefully. The word for "live" in Rom 8:13 is zēte which is a present tense verb in the Greek. Thus properly translated as LIVING. This verse does not refer to one-time or occasional sin but habitual or chronic sin manifested as a lifestyle of sin. Thus Paul warns the brethren in Rome that if they are living according to the flesh (chronic sin), they will spiritually die.
 
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Oldmantook

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<OM>Don't be hasty in forming your conclusion. When aionios is combined with theos/God, it does not take away from God's eternal nature. Instead it demonstrates the manner in which God goes about doing His business - according to ages of time. Thus God is eternal but he goes about relating to his creation "age-during." Thus He is the age-during God.
Having said that, there is a single verse in the NT which refers to God's eternal nature and power. But appropriately that verse does not use the word aionios, aionion, aioniou, etc. Instead it uses the word aidios to refer to God's attributes. Rom 1:20 states:
"Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal (aidios | ἀΐδιος | nom sg fem) power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made. So they are without excuse."<OM>

I have been active at this forum for about 2 decades. So I have heard the argument that aionios never means eternal countless time. I could post the complete definition of aionios from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available, but folks have claimed that venerable resource is biased etc
. Since I am retired X3 and I have ample time to do research, I decided to do researched every occurrence of aionios in the NT.
In twenty four [24] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
List of verses:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 6:27,
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

[1]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[2]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[3]Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[4]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[5]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house only lasts a little longer which will also be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[6]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[7]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
[8] 1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[9]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[10]John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[11]John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[Continued next post-character limit]
Don't you remember der alter that we've been through this exact same discussion before? I've replied to your arguments in the past and you have replied to mine. I don't see any change in your argument or verses cited so I don't see the need to tread over old ground. Suffice to say we agree to disagree.
 
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Der Alte

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Don't you remember der alter that we've been through this exact same discussion before? I've replied to your arguments in the past and you have replied to mine. I don't see any change in your argument or verses cited so I don't see the need to tread over old ground. Suffice to say we agree to disagree.
The problem is you have not and cannot refute anything in my post.
When I joined this forum 2 decades ago I soon realized that the hard core believers in heterodox religious groups are almost impossible to reach.
So when people keep posting the same misinformation I will continue to refute it, perchance I might reach some folks who are on the fringes.
 
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Halbhh

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There’s a context to this that I think gets missed due to chapter divisions. Judas had just left to betray Jesus. The disciples didn’t know that yet, but would soon. So I think this is Jesus explaining to them about the difference between them and Judas. He was not saved so he never produced fruit.
That does make sense. But, notice also the wording in verse 7 (actually the direct continuation)--

John 15:7 If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

(That first "and".... Why tell us "If...and my words remain in you..."? Because we are here encouraged/directed to keep His words in our thoughts, which is a choice, or an ongoing...practice to do, and then leads to the outcome He says it leads to.)
 
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Hammster

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Indeed everyone sins but not everyone lives a lifestyle of sin and therein lies the difference.
Paul chose his verb tenses carefully. The word for "live" in Rom 8:13 is zēte which is a present tense verb in the Greek. Thus properly translated as LIVING. This verse does not refer to one-time or occasional sin but habitual or chronic sin manifested as a lifestyle of sin. Thus Paul warns the brethren in Rome that if they are living according to the flesh (chronic sin), they will spiritually die.
Thanks for that distinction. Some folks preach sinless perfection because they don’t understand that.
 
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Oldmantook

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The problem is you have not and cannot refute anything in my post.
When I joined this forum 2 decades ago I soon realized that the hard core believers in heterodox religious groups are almost impossible to reach.
So when people keep posting the same misinformation I will continue to refute it, perchance I might reach some folks who are on the fringes.
Believe as you wish! People are certainly free to agree or disagree with you based upon my past replies to your objections. Hard core believers such as yourself are almost impossible, if not impossible to reach.
 
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Hammster

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That does make sense. But, notice also the wording in verse 7 (actually the direct continuation)--

John 15:7 If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

(That first "and".... Why tell us "If...and my words remain in you..."? Because we are here encouraged/directed to keep His words in our thoughts, which is a choice, or an ongoing...practice to do, and then leads to the outcome He says it leads to.)
Are you going to argue that He may not remain in us? It says “if” after all.
 
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Halbhh

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Are you going to argue that He may not remain in us? It says “if” after all.
We are to abide in Him. This is the opposite of what the Prodigal Son did when he left, of course, but we can see the prodigal begins leaving initially while still in the house -- first he begins leaving in thoughts, in the focus of his mind, while he's still in the house. Departure in going away follows later. So, for people in churches, the invaluable message all need: keep His words in our thoughts.
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
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Believe as you wish! People are certainly free to agree or disagree with you based upon my past replies to your objections. Hard core believers such as yourself are almost impossible, if not impossible to reach.
You are free to try to refute my post or point me to a post where you tried before.
ETA: Here is a link to a previous thread where I posted my aionios study, you responded but I did not see any attempt to address my post.
What Does Aionios Mean? (part 2, It is wrong to define aionios based on aion)
 
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Hammster

Psalm 144:1
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We are to abide in Him. This is the opposite of what the Prodigal Son did when he left, of course, but we can see the prodigal begins leaving initially while still in the house -- first he begins leaving in thoughts, in the focus of his mind, while he's still in the house. Departure in going away follows later. So, for people in churches, the invaluable message all need: keep His words in our thoughts.
We, as believers, will abide in Him. The Vinedresser is responsible for that.
 
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aiki

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The person that starts in Hebrews 10:26

I figured this was the passage to which you were referring. Here it is in the NASB:

Hebrews 10:26-29; 37-39
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?....

37 For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Why would a person "go on sinning willfully after "receiving a knowledge of the truth"? Is the effect of the indwelling Spirit so small, so weak, that the saved person can go right on sinning just as they always have? I don't believe that for a second. It seems evident to me that such a person has had merely an intellectual belief in the Gospel, not a belief that has arisen from the heart and is characterized by a sincere desire to be ruled and transformed by God. This is the belief of demons that the apostle James wrote of in his letter (James 2:19) I know many people within the Church who have a knowledge of the Gospel but who have not accepted it on a heart-level and yielded themselves to it. And, as you'd expect, they are "sinning willfully" on a daily basis. This is the sort of person described in verse 26, not a genuinely born-again individual.

The Early Church included "tares" (Matthew 13:24-40), "false brethren," Paul called them (2 Corinthians 11:26; Galatians 2:4) who participated in the life and work of the Church but who were not actually saved. The modern Church is filled to the brim with such "brethren" today. It is not surprising, then, that the writer of Hebrews addresses these "tares" directly in his letter, describing and warning them of the danger of having a knowledge of the truth but nothing more.

27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

This is all that remains for one who has obtained a knowledge of the Gospel but does not exercise saving faith in it. I encounter "Christians" quite often who are terrified of hell. Whenever I probe into their understanding of the Gospel and their experience of God since their "conversion," I inevitably discover that they have not had a genuine second spiritual birth. On some - often subconscious - level, they know this is so and go about with a constant feeling of dread, expecting the eternal punishment of hell should they die. And this is exactly what the writer of Hebrews describes in verse 27. Again, though, this is not a description of a genuinely saved person going apostate but of a false convert reaping the consequences of their false "conversion."

29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?....

Certainly, this further description of the person in view in verse 26 confirms that the person is not saved. No person in whom the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, dwells would ever do what is described in this verse.

But what to make of the phrase "by which he was sanctified"? The past tense "sanctified" indicates an accomplished state of affairs. Does this mean the person being described is a truly born-again person? Well, verses 26, 27 and the first part of verse 29 all describe an unsaved person, so concluding that "sanctified" indicates a born-again status seems unwarranted. In what sense, then, can an unsaved person be "sanctified" by the blood of the covenant? I think the writer of Hebrew is referring to the "knowledge of the truth" that the person in view possesses, not their actual spiritual state. The person described in verse 26 and on knows that he has been sanctified by the shed blood of Christ, and this is what the writer of Hebrews is acknowledging at the end of verse 29. The writer of Hebrews is simply describing the false believer's "knowledge of the truth" when he writes, "by which he was sanctified."

37 For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

There is no suggestion of lost salvation in these verses that quote the prophet Habakkuk. It requires a prior commitment to a saved-and-lost doctrine to interpret "My soul has no pleasure in him" as meaning, "the one who shrinks back has lost his salvation." God had no pleasure in the faithless Israelites when they shrank back from the Promised Land. He was very angry with them, in fact. But He did not reject them as His Chosen People. Even in the wilderness in which they wandered as a result of their unbelief, God continued to lead and care for them. One is not obliged, then, to understand "My soul has no pleasure in him" as meaning "he has lost his salvation."

39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Here the writer of Hebrews contrasts the genuine believer with the false one he has been describing in verses 26-29, the one who merely holds a knowledge of the truth but not a heart-belief in it. The false convert "shrinks back," but the genuine believer does not.

I don't see, then, that Hebrews 10:26-39 offers any ground for a saved-and-lost point of view, which is exactly what I would expect given what Scripture says about works having nothing to do with one's salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5) but rather with the believer being in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 1 John 5:11-12), saved by his perfect, finished atoning work at Calvary (Romans 3:24; Hebrews 9:26; Hebrews 10:10, 12).
 
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