Do curses have power over Christians?

DamianWarS · Jan 3, 2020

a Christian family goes on vacation, buys some trinkets and comes home. bad things start happening to them and they are told that one of their trinkets is cursed and to destroy it, so they destroy it and the bad things stop.

I think we have all heard of stories like this. No cursed object has any power over Christ and thus should have no power over us, his followers. We shouldn't be looking for these things but I'm always perplexed by these accounts. Christ has authority over all things, including said objects, so why do these stories come up? What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

A Realist · Jan 3, 2020

Bad things are gonna happen....trinkets or not.

Folks need to start quit blaming normal things happening in life on inanimate objects and "da debil".

grasping the after wind · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
a Christian family goes on vacation, buys some trinkets and comes home. bad things start happening to them and they are told that one of their trinkets is cursed and to destroy it, so they destroy it and the bad things stop.

I think we have all heard of stories like this. No cursed object has any power over Christ and thus should have no power over us, his followers. We shouldn't be looking for these things but I'm always perplexed by these accounts. Christ has authority over all things, including said objects, so why do these stories come up? What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

Never heard a story like that. Curses not only have no effect on Christians they have no effect on anyone at all unless one decides to believe that they do.

RaymondG · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
a Christian family goes on vacation, buys some trinkets and comes home. bad things start happening to them and they are told that one of their trinkets is cursed and to destroy it, so they destroy it and the bad things stop.

I think we have all heard of stories like this. No cursed object has any power over Christ and thus should have no power over us, his followers. We shouldn't be looking for these things but I'm always perplexed by these accounts. Christ has authority over all things, including said objects, so why do these stories come up? What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

They happen because they are true. What a man thinketh, so is he. It is you who give power to these objects......through belief.......

Not unlike the power we give to cooking oil, once prayed for, or wood, when formulated into a cross or ouija board.

DamianWarS · Jan 3, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
Never heard a story like that. Curses not only have no effect on Christians they have no effect on anyone at all unless one decides to believe that they do.

there are such things as malevolent forces that do have power, the gospels are full of such accounts. I wouldn't discredit their existence but at the same time, Christ has power over them so I also wouldn't be scared over them either.

DamianWarS · Jan 3, 2020

RaymondG said:
They happen because they are true. What a man thinketh, so is he. It is you who give power to these objects......through belief.......

Not unlike the power we give to cooking oil, once prayed for, or wood, when formulated into a cross or ouija board.

I have travelled quite a lot and even lived in areas of the world where there are such warnings but I have never had an incident. It's not that I don't' believe such power exists, not in inanimate objects but in deeper forces at play, but I trust Christ is above them so I don't worry about them. Christians can certainly be quite "folksy" in their beliefs like as you mentioned in oil and crosses. These "things" have no power in themselves and that's not the point I'm trying to make, but rather actual malevolent forces that are against Christ in some capacity possessing these objects.

this concept you bring up of projected power through belief seems counter-gospel since as Christians "belief" has a lot of impact. We believe in Christ and have eternal life so how do you justify belief in the good spiritual with good benefit but "fake" in terms of the bad spiritual writing it off as all projected and doesn't really exist. I am of course assuming the former position, which may be unwise, but those two positions seem at odds with each other.

RaymondG · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
I have travelled quite a lot and even lived in areas of the world where there are such warnings but I have never had an incident. It's not that I don't' believe such power exists, not in inanimate objects but in deeper forces at play, but I trust Christ is above them so I don't worry about them. Christians can certainly be quite "folksy" in their beliefs like as you mentioned in oil and crosses. These "things" have no power in themselves and that's not the point I'm trying to make, but rather actual malevolent forces that are against Christ in some capacity possessing these objects.

I you will continue to not be affected by them because you believe that you should not be. Those who believe otherwise will continue to be affected.

DamianWarS said:
this concept you bring up of projected power through belief seems counter-gospel since as Christians "belief" has a lot of impact. We believe in Christ and have eternal life so how do you justify belief in the good spiritual with good benefit but "fake" in terms of the bad spiritual writing it off as all projected and doesn't really exist. I am of course assuming the former position, which may be unwise, but those two positions seem at odds with each other.

I said the opposite of what you claim....and did not dismiss anything as false. Read again:

RaymondG said:
They happen because they are true.

Belief is powerful.....as you know....since you feel you can gain eternal life by using it.

NBB · Jan 3, 2020

Spiritual problems just don't vanish because we became believers, we need to identify them, and solve them with the help of God.
I never experienced something with an object, but we can have lots of spiritual problems that we drag from we were unbelievers, sometimes we did nothing wrong even as a baby those things came to us.
And sometimes if we are not firm in our walk the devil can attack us and leave us with spiritual problems too.

Deus Vult! · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
a Christian family goes on vacation, buys some trinkets and comes home. bad things start happening to them and they are told that one of their trinkets is cursed and to destroy it, so they destroy it and the bad things stop.

I think we have all heard of stories like this. No cursed object has any power over Christ and thus should have no power over us, his followers. We shouldn't be looking for these things but I'm always perplexed by these accounts. Christ has authority over all things, including said objects, so why do these stories come up? What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

After the rite of Exorcism has taken place - the possessed having been delivered - the very next step the priest takes is to assess from the delivered what - if any - new material(s) had been brought into their home since they began experiencing the manifestation.
They then pray prescribed prayers over the item(s) and burn them or lock them away...
Yes, this is very real. Please read: …11 "God did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and the diseases and evil spirits left them." - Acts 19:12
Here you have a Biblical reference to what we in the Catholic Faith refer to as "relics". This would be evidence for what we would call 2nd class relics. Here God was using them to perform miracles.
There are three classes of relics. You will have to do some study into this if you find it interesting... The reason I bring it up though is to simply point to the fact that preternatural events at times are linked to physical items, clothing, a painting, a watch, etc.
History has shown us that this is occurring on both sides, of good and evil.
The "trinket" or "idol" indeed is nothing, but that which is unseen and potentially connected to it, or even bound to, is.

1 Corinthians 10:19-20
19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons.

topher694 · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
Do curses have power over Christians?

Only to the degree which we are in agreement with them. Agreement can take many forms: fear, apathy and ignorance being among them. But Christ is greater and through Him we have complete victory.

Pavel Mosko · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
a Christian family goes on vacation, buys some trinkets and comes home. bad things start happening to them and they are told that one of their trinkets is cursed and to destroy it, so they destroy it and the bad things stop.

I think we have all heard of stories like this. No cursed object has any power over Christ and thus should have no power over us, his followers. We shouldn't be looking for these things but I'm always perplexed by these accounts. Christ has authority over all things, including said objects, so why do these stories come up? What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

I've actually thought about this sort of thing myself, especially when dealing with the Pentecostal and Charismatic end of Christianity. I really believe a chunk of this is some kind of hyperspiritualism. I was raised in an Evangelical household and the Lutheran Churches I attended taught and believed in Cessionism. And I was use to having a very low level of expectation for any sort of supernatural activity growing up. However in attending some various charismatic groups, meetings, churches I saw the opposite extreme. There was lots of expectations for miracles, answered prayer etc. for the good, but there is also a lot of reading lots and lots of stuff into seemingly inane or coincidental events.

A great example of this is if you read any posts or threads on dream interpretation. I studied the psychology of dreams a number of times from junior college to university to graduate school. I got my BA from UC Santa Cruz where their was a notable professor named Calvin Hall that studied dreams for decades. Anyway on one exhaustive class on dreams I learned that the most reliable predictor of the content of dreams is a person's waking life. Much of the content we dream get's recycled so to speak. Anyway I've been flabbergasted in reading and sometimes participating in some dream interpretation discussions, groups etc. I believe there are spiritual applications of dreams at times and they can be prophetic etc. but definitely not all the time! Dreams for the most part are a window into your soul and that of course does have spiritual meanings etc. But I have seen so many people want to read supernatural and prophetic meanings into everything they dream! Which just blows me away, in the Bible there are notable examples of important prophetic dreams but really no indication that this was a constant activity. The only example I can sort of think of that might break that rule of thumb is Miriam the sister of Moses who God often spoke to her in her dreams.

But anyway I think there is a lot Shamanism and Superstition in some areas of Christianity. Another good example is the idea of Demonic transference. In the 90s I first encountered Christians that believed that you get demons in much the same way that you might get a cold germ or maybe have lice or some parasite transfer to you by being in contact or close proximity to someone who was demonized. I totally do not believe in this! I really don't think that is possible unless you somehow open a door via occult activity, or possibly some other sin. Of course if you are in the ministry exorcism / deliverance you can expect some form of counter attack.

SkyWriting · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
What power is being manifested in these objects and why does it have an effect over some Christians?

I know this palm reader. It was a passing thing and he
wondered.....so he read the palm lines backwards.

It turned out no matter what he said, within reason, his clients believed it was true.
The same with curses.

DamianWarS · Jan 3, 2020

RaymondG said:
Belief is powerful.....as you know....since you feel you can gain eternal life by using it.

I said belief has a lot of impact, not that it gives you eternal life.

RaymondG · Jan 3, 2020

DamianWarS said:
I said belief has a lot of impact, not that it gives you eternal life.

You've found a way to eternal life that doesn't start with belief?

DamianWarS · Jan 4, 2020

Pavel Mosko said:
I've actually thought about this sort of thing myself, especially when dealing with the Pentecostal and Charismatic end of Christianity. I really believe a chunk of this is some kind of hyperspiritualism. I was raised in an Evangelical household and the Lutheran Churches I attended taught and believed in Cessionism. And I was use to having a very low level of expectation for any sort of supernatural activity growing up. However in attending some various charismatic groups, meetings, churches I saw the opposite extreme. There was lots of expectations for miracles, answered prayer etc. for the good, but there is also a lot of reading lots and lots of stuff into seemingly inane or coincidental events.

A great example of this is if you read any posts or threads on dream interpretation. I studied the psychology of dreams a number of times from junior college to university to graduate school. I got my BA from UC Santa Cruz where their was a notable professor named Calvin Hall that studied dreams for decades. Anyway on one exhaustive class on dreams I learned that the most reliable predictor of the content of dreams is a person's waking life. Much of the content we dream get's recycled so to speak. Anyway I've been flabbergasted in reading and sometimes participating in some dream interpretation discussions, groups etc. I believe there are spiritual applications of dreams at times and they can be prophetic etc. but definitely not all the time! Dreams for the most part are a window into your soul and that of course does have spiritual meanings etc. But I have seen so many people want to read supernatural and prophetic meanings into everything they dream! Which just blows me away, in the Bible there are notable examples of important prophetic dreams but really no indication that this was a constant activity. The only example I can sort of think of that might break that rule of thumb is Miriam the sister of Moses who God often spoke to her in her dreams.

But anyway I think there is a lot Shamanism and Superstition in some areas of Christianity. Another good example is the idea of Demonic transference. In the 90s I first encountered Christians that believed that you get demons in much the same way that you might get a cold germ or maybe have lice or some parasite transfer to you by being in contact or close proximity to someone who was demonized. I totally do not believe in this! I really don't think that is possible unless you somehow open a door via occult activity, or possibly some other sin. Of course if you are in the ministry exorcism / deliverance you can expect some form of counter attack.

so there are the "bad" objects being some form of folk-Christianity but this would be extended to the "good" objects also being some form of folk-Christianity. For example, both a cross and talisman have no innate power and no matter what we do it will never have power.

at the same time we have demonstrations of power through the inanimate in scripture, Moses had his staff, Peter had handkerchiefs etc... There are those who completely reject this and those who embrace it so much that they find power in everything as your experiences have concluded. Where is the balance? If we found Moses staff today or one of the handkerchiefs would it be counter-gospel of us to look at those with the same power once manifested? Should we put them in glass containers and display them for the masses or Have these things been turn into a bronze snake where we no longer seek Christ through them but only the power.

DamianWarS · Jan 4, 2020

RaymondG said:
You've found a way to eternal life that doesn't start with belief?

you changing your language. belief doesn't give us eternal life, Christ does.

RaymondG · Jan 4, 2020

DamianWarS said:
you changing your language. belief doesn't give us eternal life, Christ does.

I like where this is going. So you mean Christ gave us eternal life without the need for us to believe?...... just like Adam gave us death?

DamianWarS · Jan 4, 2020

RaymondG said:
I like where this is going. So you mean Christ gave us eternal life without the need for us to believe?...... just like Adam gave us death?

I'm not sure where you're trying to corner me and this is a digressed topic so I just say that although belief has a role Christ has a greater role such as what we see demonstrate in Jn 15:5. "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."

Pavel Mosko · Jan 4, 2020

DamianWarS said:
so there are the "bad" objects being some form of folk-Christianity but this would be extended to the "good" objects also being some form of folk-Christianity. For example, both a cross and talisman have no innate power and no matter what we do it will never have power.

at the same time we have demonstrations of power through the inanimate in scripture, Moses had his staff, Peter had handkerchiefs etc... There are those who completely reject this and those who embrace it so much that they find power in everything as your experiences have concluded. Where is the balance? If we found Moses staff today or one of the handkerchiefs would it be counter-gospel of us to look at those with the same power once manifested? Should we put them in glass containers and display them for the masses or Have these things been turn into a bronze snake where we no longer seek Christ through them but only the power.

I sort of agree with the "bad objects" thing. But this is going to get into some Eastern Orthodox theological stuff and me copy and pasting a long Blog post, and probably making a secondary commentary post after that.

A week ago, I had a discussion / disagreement with a Christian that was very put off by the notion that objects in the New Testament era might actually be somehow “consecrated” or even holy (because they are set apart for the ministry of the Gospel). I used many examples that showed that this was not purely Old Testament or even Roman Catholic, but such things actually took place in the New Testament as well. But one of the things, I left out was an actual personal story that happened in my own life.

In the house, where I grew up from 1st grade into college even graduate school we had a “Living Room” which basically acted as a parlor. My mother was one of the main organists for our local Lutheran church and that was the room she tended to practice her hymns and Lutheran liturgy in and that was something that was mostly ongoing from the 1975-1993. Besides being the organ practice room had another use. In grade school a conflict happened at the local church that led to a church split. The only other Lutheran church in my town was a liberal one, that my parents couldn’t agree with. So for a year or so, under the advice a Lutheran pastor my folks respected we had church service in our home every Sunday for almost a year in that room. My father would lead devotions based on a devotional publication from a new Lutheran synod he just joined, and we also every month would get a few sermons mailed to us from some Lutheran pastors we knew that we could listen to as well. Finally, the room became a Bible study and prayer room for, especially after I joined the Charismatic movement in 1990 onward. The room had a good peaceful feeling to it and I tended to use it for graduate school studying as well.

While in grad school I met a friend of a friend. This person was unlike any of my friends and associates. All my other friends tended to fall into one of two categories. 1) People who were openly Christian. Or 2) People who were probably some form of agnostic but reasonably neutral and respectful of their more Christian associates. This was more or less true of most friends and acquaintances, that is until I met Jim. Jim started a whole new class of friends and associates, namely those who are: 3) Openly derogatory of Christianity. The man seemed to have no filter over his mouth, he could see something like a Christian plaque or the title of a book, and could not help but blurt out something insulting about the ignorance of the person writing it etc. This occurred even when he might have to ask you for a favor, or otherwise was on the receiving end of social graces and hospitality.

Besides this associate was unlike any of my other friends, for he was the only one that had any interest in the occult. Strangely enough, his interest was less in the practical end of trying to use the occult as some kind of practical way like many try to use it to help them in romance, to help earn more money etc. Rather than being interested in such things as spell casting, dousing rods, horoscopes etc. this person was for the most part only interested more in to what is termed theosophy, which is the philosophical end of the occult.

Anyway an interesting thing happened one day, while my group of friends were looking to do something like go to the movies together. I had forgotten something I needed at home, most likely a wind breaker jacket and asked that we stop by my house to get it. So my friends, not wanting to wait in the car followed me into my parent’s house where I was staying at the time. What caught me by surprise however was Jim’s exclamation upon immediately entering my parent’s house and looking off to the side where the Living room / organ practice room was. “THERE’S A LOT OF POWER COMING FROM THAT ROOM!” is what he immediately blurted out.

It's interesting in all my talking to this person he was the most close minded person I knew as far as being willing to consider the Gospel as far as all my conversations and interactions of him went. However, his pride and skepticism was momentarily challenged by coming into contact with a Christian sacred space. This story should likewise encourage others in their establishing sacred spaces within their homes, offices etc. For in the Bible, people, objects and places that become dedicated to God become vessels that some aspect of his power and glory. So I would submit establishing sacred spaces is yet another way we can witness to Christ and “occupy until returns” (Luke 19:13)

PS – The great irony of this story as well is parents are non-charismatic. My father is somewhat open to the idea, but my mother can legitimately be called a charismaphobic (very afraid of Holy Rollers). The great irony is in Eastern Orthodox terms much of the worship that “charged” the room with the air of the supernatural came from a lady who is deathly afraid of such things! This itself hopefully will be an encouragement for folks afraid that there “Faith is too weak” for the charisms etc.

Pavel Mosko · Jan 4, 2020

OK more commentary. For the most part I am actually skeptical of many accounts of occult objects etc. There is a verse in the NT where saint Paul speaks about the idols of the pagan gods and says "they are nothing" etc. and I think that is very true for the most part. Many things only really work because people believe in them. Like they open themselves up to it as far as a demonic connection or perhaps their is some kind of psychosomatic thing going on.

But at the theoretical level there does exist something about objects and places "being energized". The above story is a positive version of that. Occult objects etc. is the negative version. Essentially things become energized with the activity of the area kind of like building a static electrical charge from rubbing an object or some other activity.

Interestingly enough in Judaism there kind of exist some reason for this based on concepts of Holiness and consecration. Objects, places, people set apart from God use and sometimes manifesting miraculous powers etc. the bones of a prophet resurrecting a man, getting healed by touching the hem of a garmet, getting killed by touching the ark of the Covenant etc.

Anyway I guess you can say there is both Holy and unholy consecration....

But I am against a lot of what I hear regarding occult objects; because it seems like the stories and testimonies make demonic power much more powerful than it should be, at least in regards as Christians are concerned.

Do curses have power over Christians?

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