Help with Matt 13:41

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

While I read the surrounding verses, I had this thought about how Scripture has, at times, been lost in history, yet, always being found again and preserved...and it is a treasure. And then I read on to this verse:


Matthew 13
"52Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

So then, I think we must consider what was available then and what has been cut out...and what is available now...or in the future..."New treasures"...

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

The Church. Unless you're a dispensationalist and then we have to wait for Daniel 9 to finally come to pass and THEN the kingdom will be established :-0

Joking aside, at the time Jesus was teaching that parable, his kingdom hadn't been established. Sometime between the time he said those word and the time that John wrote Revelation, we can be pretty certain that the kingdom was established.

Revelation 1:9
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Tone said:

While I read the surrounding verses, I had this thought about how Scripture has, at times, been lost in history, yet, always being found again and preserved...and it is a treasure. And then I read on to this verse:


Matthew 13
"52Then He told them, “For this reason, every scribe who has been discipled in the kingdom of heaven is like a homeowner who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

So then, I think we must consider what was available then and what has been cut out...and what is available now...or in the future..."New treasures"...

Click to expand...

We have a great record of the text of both old and new testaments as well as very clear warnings against adding or taking away from it. It has not significantly changed since the first copies. You could completely reconstruct the new testament just in quotes by first and second century church bishop's letters, save for two verses. Oh, and that includes Mark 16:9-22 quoted well before some scholars claim it was added.

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

If we allow Jesus to define who He is referring to here, we need to read a little further. A couple chapters later in Matt 15:12-13 we find "Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides.c And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
In these verses, Jesus referred to the Pharisees as blind guides - plants that needed to be rooted up. The tares are the plants that are rooted up/harvested in Matt 14:40. Thus the tares are not in the Church but are instead the rulers/teachers of Israel. The harvest of the tares takes place at the second coming of Christ; at the end of this age (14:41). The kingdom is the Millennial reign of Christ on earth. In 13:38, the sons of the kingdom are the believing remnant of Israel while the tares/Pharisees are the sons of the wicked. The sons of the kingdom (believing Jews) along with the saints rule and reign with Christ during the Millennial kingdom. The tares end up in the lake of fire.

Al Touthentop said:

We have a great record of the text of both old and new testaments as well as very clear warnings against adding or taking away from it. It has not significantly changed since the first copies. You could completely reconstruct the new testament just in quotes by first and second century church bishop's letters, save for two verses. Oh, and that includes Mark 16:9-22 quoted well before some scholars claim it was added.

Click to expand...

Totally true, in fact the amount of contemporary and near contemporary writings confirming the origins of the New Testament is astounding, the NT scriptures are the most established ancient writings in the history of the world.

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

His Kingdom is everything in this Universe, always has been always will be. There is a war in Heaven and the battle ground will soon be limited to just earth. Satan has claimed dominance of the earth, yet Yeshua declared it His. Yeshua sending out angels to weed out of His Kingdom all sin and sinners, will come at Yom Kippur, in His appointed time.

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

"All will Experience the Tribulation
God's people, those who have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, have to go through the tribulation. “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works” (Matthew 16:27).

God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels (2 Thessalonians 1:6-7 NIV).

According to these texts, relief for the righteous and recompense for the wicked take place at the same time—at the return of Christ.

This is what Jesus told His disciples about the end-‐time tribulation:The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (Matthew 13:41-43 NKJV).

Just like the wheat and the tares Jesus describes in Matthew 13, the wicked and the just will stay together until the return of Christ. When Old Testament Israel was delivered from the bondage of Egypt, the plagues did not fall when the Israelites were already gone. They were present and witnessed the events, being subjected to the first three plagues themselves (Exodus 8-‐12).

God divinely protected the Israelites from the effects of the last seven plagues in Egypt, just as He will divinely protect His people from the effects of the last seven plagues at the end of time (Revelation 3:10-‐13). God's people are urged to hold on until He comes. They are not taken to heaven before these events.

The glory of Christ's Second Coming leaves no hint of secrecy, and the judgment of the wicked and the righteous will happen at the same time. The return of Christ is the blessed hope of the people of God: Jesus is to be revealed (1 Corinthians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7,13; 4:13)."

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Section PDFs/The Second Coming of Christ.pdf

Carl Emerson said:

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.

Most folks think this refers to purging the Church of 'Tares'.

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

I think it has to be the same as "the kingdom of their Father" in verse 43. But at that time, isn't it speaking of the whole universe? So I think 41 is using "kingdom" in a future sense. I don't think it's the church.

I wonder if this sheds any light on it?

Revelation 11:15 (NRSV)

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Messiah,
and he will reign forever and ever.”

Gregorikos said:

I wonder if this sheds any light on it?

Revelation 11:15 (NRSV)

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of his Messiah,
and he will reign forever and ever.”

Click to expand...

I think it plays a part in showing that it is only the kingdom of the world that needs to be conquered at this point for their Lord to reign over all of the Universe.

visionary said:

I think it plays a part in showing that it is only the kingdom of the world that needs to be conquered at this point for their Lord to reign over all of the Universe.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not predictive at all but is describing the current state of the kingdom of God. The kingdoms of the world were already conquered when Christ was resurrected. Now it has been made plain and obvious that the power of the world's governments cannot ever have any real hold on us who live under their so called jurisdiction. They can kill us all they want, but it won't take away our citizenship in the only kingdom that matters.

Carl Emerson said:

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

The Body of Christ.

Carl Emerson said:

OK we have various

Mmmm.... Some folks believe that the Tares are detectable by observing if they show the fruits of the Spirit.

Click to expand...

This is definitely not true. It's relatively easy to fake the fruits of the spirit for decades while being a tare. I know from experience, others CANNOT determine that you are a tare through observation.

Carl Emerson said:

That would be my take also... However, how does that relate to 'By their fruits ye shall know them... " ???

Click to expand...

I think context here is specifically regarding false prophets.

I read some good commentaries and the idea within context of false prophets is people teaching or prophesying, the fruit of their lives and message will show if they are a true prophet or a false prophet. So perhaps focusing on this context instead of extrapolating to all Christians.

why I certainly lied a lot about my own spirituality when I was a tare (to myself, God and others) I certainly never prophesied or tried to teach others from my heart. If I had, it seems to indicate Wise people In the spirit may have been able to see the cracks.

although this isn’t a perfect answer, because sometimes pastors and prophets seem amazing on the outside but are trash inside.

the other element I thought of was that the >timing< of the fruit bearing out the truth isn’t really addressed. Could it mean “over time” the bearing of good or bad fruit would show? I think that’s plausible, and when I was a tare it did eventually come to light (praise Jesus) and he saved me from my sin and blindness to it

.

Carl Emerson said:

What is "His Kingdom" in this verse?

Click to expand...

Probably the same kingdom spoken of below:

"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying: The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof." (Matt 13:31-32)

An interpretation that I heard on radio suggested that Jesus' parable describes the current condition of the kingdom of heaven rather than its future condition.

In other words; that tree is here on Earth and it's already full grown, and one of its characteristics is those birds, which typically, but not always, represent the presence of evil. In other words; those birds are detrimental; they're pests, for example:

● Matt 11:12 . . From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.

The Greek word for "violent" basically refers to the aggressive use and abuse of power. Well; one only read today's newspapers, or watch television newscasts, to see that what Jesus said is happening all around the world every day.

Jesus' reference to John the Baptist indicates that Christ's arrival on the scene back then changed nothing. The kingdom went on controlled by forceful people, as it continues to be controlled by them even now in our day, and won't be remedied until the kingdom's king returns.

● Matt 13:40-43 . . As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
_