Are Legalists really saved?

Kenny'sID

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The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.

Now that you've shown us how to spot them, lets do that. Show us one person that doesn't believe those things are part of salvation? Someone here? Maybe a youtube preacher teaching that? I personally have never seen anyone claim those things don't matter, or even so much as an indication of such, but I'm sure you'll back up your claim when you answer my request.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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enduring to the end
Enduring to the end has nothing to do with legalism. It has everything to do with falling into deception and rebuking Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Best to take that off your list.
Be blessed.
 
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Peter tells us that we are to strive to make our calling and election sure. We are to do everything within our power to present ourselves as holy because that is what God asks of us. As other members have pointed out, when we follow His commands as best we can and do away with the lusts of the flesh, then it can be said undoubtledly that we are remaining in His love. So let's all present ourselves as living sacrifices, purchased by Christ to the glory of His name.
 
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Soyeong

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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

So, what do they preach, and how do you recognize them, so that you can rebuke then avoid them on a forum? And if you are in a leadership position in a local church, you can confront them, and if they will not comply with Paul, and with the NT, regarding the TRUTH of the "Grace of God" and what it actually is, then you are to get rid of them. You are to not allow them to TEACH on a "Christian forum" or in a Local Church, or anywhere near real born again Christians, because they will poison them theologically and spiritually.
It will interest you to discover that its only the religious people who practice legalism who we as Leaders are told to "get rid of them".. We are not told to pray for them, or to "love them in Christ".......NONE OF THAT. We are told to do this...

King James Version
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Darby Bible Translation
An heretical man after a first and second admonition have done with,

World English Bible
Avoid a heretic after a first and second warning;

Young's Literal Translation
A heretic, after a first and second admonition, totally reject,

Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.

So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

So, this heretic, has only one message. its "how to keep yourself saved". These are "self savers" who will misuse a long list of twisted scriptures and other bible related STUFF, you MUST DO.... according to THEIR GOSPEL...., to "keep yourself out of hell".. "to keep yourself SAVED".
That is what they teach, and that is how you SPOT THEM, all over forums, all over pulpits, and all over the world.
They REPLACE The Grace of God, with their self righteous LIST. And they always have it. ..
= "Commandments. Torah.... Enduring to the end"....Keeping this, doing that, works, works, works, to keep yourself out of hell, and to keep yourself SAVED.
In other words, they are replacing the Cross and Christ on it, with their CURSED gospel of "works, commandment keeping, keeping the Torah, enduring to the end... lifestyle, sin confessing, repenting, repenting, repenting".

The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.
Jesus and the Blood Atonement is MISSING From the Heretics "to do" list.
= "cursed of God"., according to Paul. Galatians 1:8
Notice This.. and you have SEEN- heard A HERETIC.
And this person, these people infest Christian forums. They are an infection like a spiritual cancer. They cause nothing but fights, chaos, and truly harm new believers or any believer who is weak in the faith and easily deceived by them
They are Deceivers.
They are anti-Cross.
They are doing the work of the devil.
They Pretend they are real believers.

Now, Paul is talking about the teachers. He is not speaking about soeone who is just confused about many things, and is just asking questions and has a point of view.
Paul is talking about these workers of the devil that TEACH legalism.
There are many here, on this forum. There are many Threads created by them, on THIS forum.
This is the work of the devil, and they are "cursed" for teaching "another gospel", according to Paul. Galatians 1:8

If you find one on a forum, then rebuke them, then ignore them.
If you find one in your Church, and you are a Leader, then you get them OUT, if they won't stop their legalistic deception.
Give them 2 opportunities to Stop, as directed by Paul.

If God were a legalist for giving the Torah to His followers and if Jesus were a legalist for living in sinless obedience to the Torah and for spending his ministry teaching his followers of how to obey it by word and by example, then being a legalist would be being in good company, but that is not what legalism refers to. In is not legalism to think that followers of God should follow God's commands for the same reason that it is not legalism for someone to think that citizens should follow the laws of their country. Legalism has always been a perversion of the Torah that undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His followers to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

Paul's problem in Galatians was not that followers of God were being taught how to follow His commands as though following God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with people teaching that Gentiles needed to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah, so the Torah is of faith. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that was of works with a law that was of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in 3:31 that our faith upholds the Torah, so again it is of faith. In Galatians 3:10-13, Paul was speaking about works of the law, which are not of faith, and contrasting them with the Book of the Law, which is of faith in God. He associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as the ones who are living in obedience to the Torah, while no one is justified before God by works of the law because they are not of faith in God.

In Deuteronomy 28:1-14, it describes the blessing of living in obedience to the Torah, while verses 15-68 describe the curse or living in disobedience to the Torah, so the Torah itself was not given with the goal of cursing us, but rather being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Torah is being set free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it.

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Christ. So Jesus spent the sum of his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Torah by word and by example. Furthermore, in Acts 2:38, when Peter told his audience to repent for the forgiveness of sins, the Torah was also how they knew what sin is. In Romans 15:4, Paul referred to OT Scripture as being written for our instruction and in 15:18-19, his Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to full obedience in word and in deed, so his Gospel was on the same page in regard to teaching repentance from our sins.

To believe on the name of the Son is to believe in who he is, what he came to accomplish, and in what that means for how we should therefore live our lives. The Torah is God's instructions for how to walk in His ways and express His character traits (Deuteronomy 10:12-13) and Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature or the personification of God's character traits (Hebrews 1:3), so he expressed only the divine character traits/fruits of the Spirit through his actions and what that looked like was sinless obedience to the Torah, so if we believe in who Jesus is, then we will obey the Torah.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what the Torah was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross and understand what that means for how we should therefore live our lives, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from.

In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, so that was how Jesus was gracious to us. Our salvation is from sin and sin is defined as disobedience to the Torah (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to the Torah through faith is what salvation from living in disobedience to the Torah looks like. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, so while we are not saved by our obedience to the Torah as though it were something that could be earned, it is also true that we are not saved from living in disobedience to the Torah while refusing to repent and live in obedience to it by faith.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

So, what do they preach, and how do you recognize them, so that you can rebuke then avoid them on a forum? And if you are in a leadership position in a local church, you can confront them, and if they will not comply with Paul, and with the NT, regarding the TRUTH of the "Grace of God" and what it actually is, then you are to get rid of them. You are to not allow them to TEACH on a "Christian forum" or in a Local Church, or anywhere near real born again Christians, because they will poison them theologically and spiritually.
It will interest you to discover that its only the religious people who practice legalism who we as Leaders are told to "get rid of them".. We are not told to pray for them, or to "love them in Christ".......NONE OF THAT. We are told to do this...

King James Version
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Darby Bible Translation
An heretical man after a first and second admonition have done with,

World English Bible
Avoid a heretic after a first and second warning;

Young's Literal Translation
A heretic, after a first and second admonition, totally reject,

Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.

So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

So, this heretic, has only one message. its "how to keep yourself saved". These are "self savers" who will misuse a long list of twisted scriptures and other bible related STUFF, you MUST DO.... according to THEIR GOSPEL...., to "keep yourself out of hell".. "to keep yourself SAVED".
That is what they teach, and that is how you SPOT THEM, all over forums, all over pulpits, and all over the world.
They REPLACE The Grace of God, with their self righteous LIST. And they always have it. ..
= "Commandments. Torah.... Enduring to the end"....Keeping this, doing that, works, works, works, to keep yourself out of hell, and to keep yourself SAVED.
In other words, they are replacing the Cross and Christ on it, with their CURSED gospel of "works, commandment keeping, keeping the Torah, enduring to the end... lifestyle, sin confessing, repenting, repenting, repenting".

The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.
Jesus and the Blood Atonement is MISSING From the Heretics "to do" list.
= "cursed of God"., according to Paul. Galatians 1:8
Notice This.. and you have SEEN- heard A HERETIC.
And this person, these people infest Christian forums. They are an infection like a spiritual cancer. They cause nothing but fights, chaos, and truly harm new believers or any believer who is weak in the faith and easily deceived by them
They are Deceivers.
They are anti-Cross.
They are doing the work of the devil.
They Pretend they are real believers.

Now, Paul is talking about the teachers. He is not speaking about soeone who is just confused about many things, and is just asking questions and has a point of view.
Paul is talking about these workers of the devil that TEACH legalism.
There are many here, on this forum. There are many Threads created by them, on THIS forum.
This is the work of the devil, and they are "cursed" for teaching "another gospel", according to Paul. Galatians 1:8

If you find one on a forum, then rebuke them, then ignore them.
If you find one in your Church, and you are a Leader, then you get them OUT, if they won't stop their legalistic deception.
Give them 2 opportunities to Stop, as directed by Paul.


I know one thing, legalists are often very concerned about pondering and discussing whether other people are saved instead of worrying about their own souls...
 
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Alain Valdivia

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If by legalist you mean someone who relies on their own merits and righteousness in order to present themselves worthy of salvation before God then yes they are yet under the wrath of God because they have not truly believed in the name of the Son of God (John 3:36). A single text is sufficient to allow us to assert such a thing: “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”‭‭ (Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬). Therefore, it is clear from the above text that those who would be justified by their own righteousness are cut off from Christ, from whom salvation is possible, and from the Covenant of grace, from which redemption is applied. The legalistic errs in several ways. He first errs in making himself his own idol. How so? Because all of his strivings against sin, arduous obedience, tearful prayers, and mortifications is to save himself from the wrath of God. It neither pleases God nor saves his soul from death. They also err in counting the blood of Christ a common thing as if without the shedding of blood there is remission of sin. Yet their sin increases all the more. Their self righteousness takes away the glory solely due to Christ for their salvation. Man, in his natural state, constantly seeks to save himself and thus glory in themselves for achieving their own salvation. What wickedness is this! The glory of salvation is solely to be attributed to Our Lord and yet these legalist seek the glory of salvation in themselves. They need to hear the words of Jonathan Edwards when he says, “You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary.” And finally, they believe that all their good works find their root in themselves. They too fail to understand that apart from the grace of God we aren’t able to do a single good deed in His sight. May our Lord save us from self righteousness and thus save our souls.
 
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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

full

The book of Acts says that we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
(Acts‬ ‭of the Apostles 13:39‬).

Paul was not talking about the "Law of Christ" when he said, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4). For Paul was talking about the Old Law because he was referring to those believers who wanted to be circumcised in order to be saved.

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

Circumcision is a part of the Law of Moses (the Old Law) and not the Law of Christ.

In fact, at the Jerusalem council, we learn that a certain sect of Pharisees wanted the Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved and to keep the whole of the Law of Moses (the Old Law).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).​


Paul was condemning the idea of being justified by the Old Law or the Law of Moses. There is a difference between the Law of Moses, and the Law of Christ. We can even see this in Scripture.

full


You said:
So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God",

Look at the context.
What Law was Paul talking about?
The Law of Moses, or the Law of Christ or some other Law, or all forms of Law in general?

" And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. " (Galatians 3:17)

What Law came 430 years after the Promise of Abraham?
The Law of Moses.

You said:
because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross,

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

You said:
and anti-christ-grace.

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).

You said:
Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross,

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:" (Galatians 1:6).

Context:

"But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:" (Galatians 2:3).

In other words, Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" just like they were at the Jerusalem council in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

You said:
the Blood Atonement,

While we can believe in the blood of Jesus for salvation (Romans 3:25), we also need to "...walk in the light as He is in the light... and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light is loving your brother (Which is strongly implied in 1 John 2:9-11). Also, see: 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.

You said:
or Salvation

There are four aspects of salvation described in Scripture.

Check out this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

You said:
or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
We are also told to put on the Lord Jesus Christ and not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14). Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. I believe this is in reference to grievous sin and not faults of character or minor transgressions.

You said:
Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.
So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

If one is saved solely on the basis of believing in Jesus and the gospel, then one can be in an incestous relationship and still be saved, right? No amount of obedience to God's commands equates with salvation, so then one can be an axe murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved all because they believe on Jesus. Is a person who makes any holy effort to prevent themselves from killing others a Works Salvationist?
 
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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

So, what do they preach, and how do you recognize them, so that you can rebuke then avoid them on a forum? And if you are in a leadership position in a local church, you can confront them, and if they will not comply with Paul, and with the NT, regarding the TRUTH of the "Grace of God" and what it actually is, then you are to get rid of them. You are to not allow them to TEACH on a "Christian forum" or in a Local Church, or anywhere near real born again Christians, because they will poison them theologically and spiritually.
It will interest you to discover that its only the religious people who practice legalism who we as Leaders are told to "get rid of them".. We are not told to pray for them, or to "love them in Christ".......NONE OF THAT. We are told to do this...

King James Version
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Darby Bible Translation
An heretical man after a first and second admonition have done with,

World English Bible
Avoid a heretic after a first and second warning;

Young's Literal Translation
A heretic, after a first and second admonition, totally reject,

Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.

So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

So, this heretic, has only one message. its "how to keep yourself saved". These are "self savers" who will misuse a long list of twisted scriptures and other bible related STUFF, you MUST DO.... according to THEIR GOSPEL...., to "keep yourself out of hell".. "to keep yourself SAVED".
That is what they teach, and that is how you SPOT THEM, all over forums, all over pulpits, and all over the world.
They REPLACE The Grace of God, with their self righteous LIST. And they always have it. ..
= "Commandments. Torah.... Enduring to the end"....Keeping this, doing that, works, works, works, to keep yourself out of hell, and to keep yourself SAVED.
In other words, they are replacing the Cross and Christ on it, with their CURSED gospel of "works, commandment keeping, keeping the Torah, enduring to the end... lifestyle, sin confessing, repenting, repenting, repenting".

The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.
Jesus and the Blood Atonement is MISSING From the Heretics "to do" list.
= "cursed of God"., according to Paul. Galatians 1:8
Notice This.. and you have SEEN- heard A HERETIC.
And this person, these people infest Christian forums. They are an infection like a spiritual cancer. They cause nothing but fights, chaos, and truly harm new believers or any believer who is weak in the faith and easily deceived by them
They are Deceivers.
They are anti-Cross.
They are doing the work of the devil.
They Pretend they are real believers.

Now, Paul is talking about the teachers. He is not speaking about soeone who is just confused about many things, and is just asking questions and has a point of view.
Paul is talking about these workers of the devil that TEACH legalism.
There are many here, on this forum. There are many Threads created by them, on THIS forum.
This is the work of the devil, and they are "cursed" for teaching "another gospel", according to Paul. Galatians 1:8

If you find one on a forum, then rebuke them, then ignore them.
If you find one in your Church, and you are a Leader, then you get them OUT, if they won't stop their legalistic deception.
Give them 2 opportunities to Stop, as directed by Paul.

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus Himself said that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17-19). Believing in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23). Are you not saved by keeping this particular law or command?
 
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Obedience to what, is why THE religious are not able to explain "justification by faith".

So, listen RELIGIOUS ONLY READERS........all you readers.... this is for you.

I can ask you to explain how the Blood atonement that saved you keeps you saved, and you and everyone here who is just like you, wont be able to even TRY to explain it.
Thats because "Faith is COUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS", and the "Gift of Righteousness" is UNKNOWN TO YOU.

You can only talk about YOUR Gospel. = Galatians 1:8

You can't explain any of this, because you have no experience with The Grace of God.
If i show you a verse that teaches "faith WITHOUT works", you will not be able to understand it and you will try to deny it.
To deny that verse, is to deny the Cross.

If i show you this verse...Philippians 1:6. "God who HIMSELF began your salvation in you, will HIMSELF be Faithful to COMPLETE IT"..
And i ask you to explain it.... you won't be able to, because you don't believe it. And you don't believe it because you have no experience with GRACE.

What you believe, is your LIST that you have, of things you trust, that you are DOING< to try to keep yourself out of hell. to try to keep yourself saved.
= SELF SAVER
You are up on the cross. Jesus is kicked off by your self righteousness
And when you think like that, when you BELIEVE in your LIST, you are not believing in Jesus.
IT CAN'T BE BOTH.
Paul calls this type of person, if they were really ever born again, which is truly suspect,..."fallen from GRACE".

People who can't stand Grace, talk negatively about people who preach it.
People who can't stand Paul, talk about "license to sin", because that is exactly what was said TO Paul.
He preached Grace, and the religious LOST told him... "you are inviting people to sin", with that message.
Every read a NT, reader? Its in there. Go look. Find yourself.

So, the same religious lost, are doing the same to GRACE Today, as they were doing to it when Paul was preaching it.
They are castigating it. Denying it. and REPLACING IT.....with THEIR Gospels of "doing stuff to save self".
= "cursed of God". Galatians 1:8

Better stop READERS.
Better hear me.

So hear what God thru Paul is saying to you, regarding your heresy, and your deception and your cross rejection.......and STOP NOW.

STOP !!

According to my current knowledge of God’s Word: God revealed to me that there are 3 verses that teach that we are saved by both God’s grace through faith, and Sanctification (Note: The red letters are in reference to Sanctification, and the letters in blue, are in reference to being saved by God’s grace through faith.).

Verse #1.

"...God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:13).​

(Note: Verse 12, says that there are those who are damned who believed not the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness. Verses 16-17 in 2 Thessalonians 2 mentions faith and works in context, as well). (Note 2: Verse 14 says that this sanctification of the Spirit is a call of the gospel. But I believe the “belief of the truth” can refer to doctrines we must hold to like believing the Trinity, but it can refer to believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (as a part of being saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation; But we continue to believe in the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 our entire lives).

Verse #2.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24).​

(Note on John 5:24: The EXB Translation explains that the word "hear" is to: "obey."; Meaning, we have to believe in Jesus and obey Him to not perish. Acts of the Apostles 3:23 confirms this. It says that if anyone does not hear that prophet (JESUS), they shall be destroyed).

Verse #3.

"You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
(James 2:24).​

(Note: Most Christians believe that the phrase "justified by faith" is dealing with salvation (Romans 3:28); If this is what they believe, they must then also be consistent with the use of this word “justified,” and they should use this one word in the same way in relation to works as James says in James 2:24.).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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To recap:

#1. God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief in the truth.
#2. We need to hear His Word, and believe on Him that sent Jesus.
#3. We are justified by works, and not by faith alone.
 
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fhansen

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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

So, what do they preach, and how do you recognize them, so that you can rebuke then avoid them on a forum? And if you are in a leadership position in a local church, you can confront them, and if they will not comply with Paul, and with the NT, regarding the TRUTH of the "Grace of God" and what it actually is, then you are to get rid of them. You are to not allow them to TEACH on a "Christian forum" or in a Local Church, or anywhere near real born again Christians, because they will poison them theologically and spiritually.
It will interest you to discover that its only the religious people who practice legalism who we as Leaders are told to "get rid of them".. We are not told to pray for them, or to "love them in Christ".......NONE OF THAT. We are told to do this...

King James Version
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Darby Bible Translation
An heretical man after a first and second admonition have done with,

World English Bible
Avoid a heretic after a first and second warning;

Young's Literal Translation
A heretic, after a first and second admonition, totally reject,

Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.

So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

So, this heretic, has only one message. its "how to keep yourself saved". These are "self savers" who will misuse a long list of twisted scriptures and other bible related STUFF, you MUST DO.... according to THEIR GOSPEL...., to "keep yourself out of hell".. "to keep yourself SAVED".
That is what they teach, and that is how you SPOT THEM, all over forums, all over pulpits, and all over the world.
They REPLACE The Grace of God, with their self righteous LIST. And they always have it. ..
= "Commandments. Torah.... Enduring to the end"....Keeping this, doing that, works, works, works, to keep yourself out of hell, and to keep yourself SAVED.
In other words, they are replacing the Cross and Christ on it, with their CURSED gospel of "works, commandment keeping, keeping the Torah, enduring to the end... lifestyle, sin confessing, repenting, repenting, repenting".

The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.
Jesus and the Blood Atonement is MISSING From the Heretics "to do" list.
= "cursed of God"., according to Paul. Galatians 1:8
Notice This.. and you have SEEN- heard A HERETIC.
And this person, these people infest Christian forums. They are an infection like a spiritual cancer. They cause nothing but fights, chaos, and truly harm new believers or any believer who is weak in the faith and easily deceived by them
They are Deceivers.
They are anti-Cross.
They are doing the work of the devil.
They Pretend they are real believers.

Now, Paul is talking about the teachers. He is not speaking about soeone who is just confused about many things, and is just asking questions and has a point of view.
Paul is talking about these workers of the devil that TEACH legalism.
There are many here, on this forum. There are many Threads created by them, on THIS forum.
This is the work of the devil, and they are "cursed" for teaching "another gospel", according to Paul. Galatians 1:8

If you find one on a forum, then rebuke them, then ignore them.
If you find one in your Church, and you are a Leader, then you get them OUT, if they won't stop their legalistic deception.
Give them 2 opportunities to Stop, as directed by Paul.
Legalism is understood when we recognize that the removal of a piece of flesh from a bodily part does not make one holy or acceptable to God, nor does mere external obedience of the commandments. But this does not mean that we're no longer obligated to obey, to be righteous. The "gift of righteousness" given to a believer is a real gift, just as the faith that brings us to conversion to begin with is a real gift. And we must then "invest" those gifts; we're expected to walk in the righteousness given.

The truest definition of this righteousness, that fulfills the law, is love. This is the right way to obey, wrought by internal change in us; this is the New Covanent way, impossible without grace. This is what is meant to happen in us as we turn to God in faith, entering communion or relationship with Him, the source of love.

Then the gospel all falls into place. When Jesus tells the rich young man that he must obey the commandments to inherit eternal life, those commandments are meant to be fulfilled by the greatest commandments. The same thing goes when He separates the sheep from the goats in Matt 25 based on what they did for "the least of these"; love is to be the motive for those acts. And when Paul tells us in 1 Cor 13 that he's nothing without love even if he had a faith that could move mountains.

Love opposes legalism while nonetheless fulfilling the law. So while we're told the law cannot justify us even though Rom 7 tells us that the law is holy, spiritual, and good, it makes sense that we'll nonetheless be judged by the law according to Rom 2. Because the law is based on love. But it can only be truly fulfilled to the extent that we're under grace, that we enter and remain in communion with God so the Holy Spirit may reign within us, so that we may love as we should .

This the relationship that Jesus came to restore between fallen man and God, through His work of reconciliation. He is our gift of righteousness.
 
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Isn't legalism about 'an eye for an eye' and 'quid pro quo'? But love keeps no record of wrongs. God keeps His covenants even when Israel breaks off. That's why the atonement theory of Jesus 'paying the fine' for our sins can't be right. Chuck those money-changers out, we'll always be short-changing God on any such analysis, our righteousness adds up to a hill of filthy rags.

So isn't that where grace starts, and we're saved by faith, but not of our own, lest we boast - the faith and faithfulness exhibited by Christ that swallows up death and harrows hell to redeem us, and that saving grace is gifted to us by the Spirit, so we are raised up with Christ and elected to partake of the eternal eau de vie from the cup that never runneth dry?

So now we're a new creature, but we need to walk worthy. So we follow religious rules. And with our best intentions the house that was cleansed may yet become inhabited by 7 new demons! Narrow is the way, lead us there Lord by your mercy.
 
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Josheb

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Are Legalists Really Saved?

First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness"....
It is definitely necessary to define terms so that everyone can understand what is being discussed and use the terminology in like manner.


Unblessedly, this op does not actually define the term "legalism," uses copy-and-paste eisegesis and is itself an example of legalism so it begs the ironic question, "Is the author saved?" And, of course, none of us here possess the faculties to know another's eternal disposition but we can assume if the author calls upon the name of God's resurrected Son, Jesus the anointed one of God, then yes, s/he is saved.

So the answer to the question asked is, "Yes, a legalists are really saved," because........


God saves even legalists!

So let's start with a definition of legalism. There are probably many ways we could define the term. The dictionaries define legalism to mean undue or inordinate adherence to or reliance upon law, or the reliance upon moral or legal law at the expense of person or faith. These are certainly conditions we observe with the Sadducees and Pharisees of Jesus' day and the Judaizers in the early ekklesia. However, for the purposes of this discussion I will suggest that the simplest and most practical way to understand legalists is this: Legalists are anyone who adds to the word of God things it does not say. Legalists are also those who see only the letter of the commands of God and fail to either understand or apply the principle under-girding the command.

And example of the latter would be the command not to muzzle the ox when plowing. This Mosaic Law is referenced at least three times in the NT and not one of those occasions has anything to do with oxen or threshing grain. It is the principle instilled in that law that is being applied in the NT era. This is the practice of NT writers.

In contrast to legalism we have two other extreme of hypocrisy; those who maintain double standards, holding one standard out to others but not themselves and themselves living by another. The third extreme is that of antinomianism, or absence of law or command or antagonism to law or command. We have an example of hypocrisy in the apostle Peter when he behaved one way with the Jewish converts to Christ and another way with the Gentile converts to Christ, requiring correction from the apostle Paul. So we necessarily understand not only can those who practice hypocrisy be saved but
they can be apostles! A Christian can act legalistically, hypocritical, or antinomian and be saved. These are the very kind of people God saves.

But one cannot persist in such conduct and have the full benefits of his/her salvation manifested in his/her life.


Now, more specifically to the op... The OP begins by reporting Galations 3 defines the term and in that chapter we find Paul calling the Galation-3-defined legalists as "cursed of God," but an examination of Galatians 3 will show there is no mention of "legalism", no mention of any specific definition, and no mention of "cursed of God." What Galatians does do is reference the OT law! It references the OT law to say those who fail to live by the whole law are cursed. It does NOT say those who live by the law are cursed. The passage is about justification, not the Law. There is an irony or paradox to the appeal to the OT law because the law informed those to whom it was given that the law itself was insufficient apart from faith. The NT standard, "The righteous shall live by faith," (Hab. 2:4; Rom. 1:16; Gal. 3:11; Heb. 10:38) is itself and OT command!

Paul was writing about justification. Those who seek to be justified by the law are cursed, but it should be understood everyone is cursed apart from faith in Christ. We are saved by grace through faith in the resurrected Son, not by faith in the law.

However, one cannot read the NT and escape the fact every single one of the NT writers repeatedly appealed to and referenced the OT commands (both Mosaic and extra-Mosaic) to teach the NT era ekklesia. We find former Pharisee Paul stating the law is good (Rom. 7:16), the law is spiritual (Rom. 7:14), and the command is holy and righteous (Rom. 7:12). The law is good when it is used lawfully (1 Tim. 1:8), but the law was not made for the righteous (1 Tim. 1:9) but for sinners because, among other things, it is by the law that sin is made known (Rom. 7:7).

It simply is NOT a basis for justification or righteousness before God.

Those are found in Christ and Christ alone.

The righteous law is not a basis for righteousness before God! Another paradox! Why is the law not a basis for righteousness? Because the law testifies to....... Christ! The law itself is incomplete. Good, righteous, and holy, but incomplete. It needs Christ incarnate, dead, resurrected, ascended and enthroned (Rom. 10:4).

And people who add to this are legalists. Blessedly, by God's grace He saves legalists.



Now, as to the use of Titus 3:11 in this op this is what the text actually states,

Titus 3:9-11 NAS
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned."

Titus 3:9-11 KJV
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Titus 3:9-11
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

You will not that it is disputations over the law, not the law itself, that indicates a problem. This is again another irony because here we are discussing the law with some smalle degree of disagreement. Does this discussion mean one, both, or any and all respondents heretics? No! That would be legalistic thinking :wink:.

Another matter of concern is the premise a heretic should be kicked out of the body of Chist for good. If this idea is practiced legalistically it contradicts the truth of reconciliation found in Christ and preached throughout the NT. Understand that even when we are directed to hand someone over to satan it is expressly so that person might be saved!

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
"It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

So even the practice of "handing over" to satan is intended to be redemptive. Properly understood God's law is restitutional, restorative, and conciliatory, not retributional, vindictive, or vengeful (Rom. 12:9-21).



Lastly, it is worth noting the eisegesis of the OP. The op copies and pastes together disparate parts of scripture in order to make the case for an answer to the question, "Are legalists really saved?" And it does so by misrepresenting scripture. This is not proper exegesis.



Now, if we define a "legalist" as someone who relies upon the OT Law of Moses for justification and/or righteousness then the answer to the question, "Are legalists saved?" is an emphatic, "No!" But if a legalist is defined more simply as anyone who adds to the laws, commands, standards, and/or precepts of God then the answer is an equally emphatic, "Yes!" because it is those very people God saves. God saves sinners and legalism is simply and solely one form of sin we are all hoping and working to avoid.


(my apologies for the length)
 
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DeepWater

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Sounds like you are engaging in a "legalism" all your own; only yours is completely void of Christ and His Church.
Sounds like you are following the traditions of men dating back a few hundred years; certainly not the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles.
Sounds like you think you can separate loving Jesus from following His commandments.

I guess your ears can't hear the sound of truth..

Here is the truth, open your ears.

Salvation, is not what you do...its what Jesus did for you on the Cross.
Your 'religion", your "self righteousness'" is YOUR GOSPEL = that you have to add your works to the CROSS, as if the CROSS is not sufficient TO REDEEM.
Thats the lie of legalism. Thats "anti-Cross" theology.. Thats the lie of commandment keeping heretics who have replaced "the Gift of Righteousness" with their LIST.
You have your list.
All legalists do.
I dont have a list. I have a SAVIOR.. I have "the righteousness of CHRIST" as MY RIGHTEOUSNESS.
And WHY is that? Its because i did the "work" that God commands for me to have HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Gods only WORK that He requires of a person, so that this person becomes God's, (BORN AGAIN). IS :

John 6:29

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one GOD has sent."

Now, go ahead, legalists, heretics and religious Grace hating LIARS.
Come back with your answer that uses your LIST of works and commandments you are using to try to save yourself, to CONTRADICT WHAT JESUS TOLD YOU IS THE ONLY WORK THAT GOD ACCEPTS.

LETS SEE YOU DO IT AGAIN.
YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS.................................>.
RAVE ON RAVER. TEACH THAT CURSE THAT YOU ARE UNDER..... GALATIANS 1:8
 
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Deus Vult!

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First we need to define what a legalist actually is, and what a legalist actually does.

So, turn to Paul, in Galatians 3, and note that he defines them as "cursed of God", because they are preaching their gospel, that is anti-cross, and anti-christ-grace. Their message, as Paul states, is "another gospel" that is not related to the Cross, the Blood Atonement, or Salvation or the "GIFT of Righteousness".

So, what do they preach, and how do you recognize them, so that you can rebuke then avoid them on a forum? And if you are in a leadership position in a local church, you can confront them, and if they will not comply with Paul, and with the NT, regarding the TRUTH of the "Grace of God" and what it actually is, then you are to get rid of them. You are to not allow them to TEACH on a "Christian forum" or in a Local Church, or anywhere near real born again Christians, because they will poison them theologically and spiritually.
It will interest you to discover that its only the religious people who practice legalism who we as Leaders are told to "get rid of them".. We are not told to pray for them, or to "love them in Christ".......NONE OF THAT. We are told to do this...

King James Version
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Darby Bible Translation
An heretical man after a first and second admonition have done with,

World English Bible
Avoid a heretic after a first and second warning;

Young's Literal Translation
A heretic, after a first and second admonition, totally reject,

Now if you consider that there is a case in the NT, where a young man is caught having an incestuous relationship , and he is cast out of the Church.... but later, is allowed back in...
But HERETICS, Galatians 1:8 Heretics, are not allowed back in and they should not be found teaching and preaching on a Christian Forum that is NT truth based. So, if you consider those 2 situation, then you can see that when Paul said they are cursed of God, he is stating the reality.

So who are these people?
Well, thats very simple to discover. = Its EVERYONE who is trying to replace the Cross and the Blood Atonement with works, commandment keeping, enduring to the end, keeping the Torah, keeping the Law, or who talks to you about DOING ANYTHING other then "believing in Jesus"...= To keep yourself saved.

So, this heretic, has only one message. its "how to keep yourself saved". These are "self savers" who will misuse a long list of twisted scriptures and other bible related STUFF, you MUST DO.... according to THEIR GOSPEL...., to "keep yourself out of hell".. "to keep yourself SAVED".
That is what they teach, and that is how you SPOT THEM, all over forums, all over pulpits, and all over the world.
They REPLACE The Grace of God, with their self righteous LIST. And they always have it. ..
= "Commandments. Torah.... Enduring to the end"....Keeping this, doing that, works, works, works, to keep yourself out of hell, and to keep yourself SAVED.
In other words, they are replacing the Cross and Christ on it, with their CURSED gospel of "works, commandment keeping, keeping the Torah, enduring to the end... lifestyle, sin confessing, repenting, repenting, repenting".

The KEY to see them, to spot them.... is to notice that there is NO JESUS, NO GRACE, NO CROSS, NO BLOOD , NO BLOOD ATONEMENT, IN WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO, SO THAT YOU CAN = KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF HELL // Keep yourself saved.
Jesus and the Blood Atonement is MISSING From the Heretics "to do" list.
= "cursed of God"., according to Paul. Galatians 1:8
Notice This.. and you have SEEN- heard A HERETIC.
And this person, these people infest Christian forums. They are an infection like a spiritual cancer. They cause nothing but fights, chaos, and truly harm new believers or any believer who is weak in the faith and easily deceived by them
They are Deceivers.
They are anti-Cross.
They are doing the work of the devil.
They Pretend they are real believers.

Now, Paul is talking about the teachers. He is not speaking about soeone who is just confused about many things, and is just asking questions and has a point of view.
Paul is talking about these workers of the devil that TEACH legalism.
There are many here, on this forum. There are many Threads created by them, on THIS forum.
This is the work of the devil, and they are "cursed" for teaching "another gospel", according to Paul. Galatians 1:8

If you find one on a forum, then rebuke them, then ignore them.
If you find one in your Church, and you are a Leader, then you get them OUT, if they won't stop their legalistic deception.
Give them 2 opportunities to Stop, as directed by Paul.


Luke 13:23-35
23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”


Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the
kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who
is in heaven.

22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many
mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from
me, you workers of lawlessness.’


1 John 2:3
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Finally if this were true, that once you are "saved" you are always saved then please explain this passage:

2 Peter 2:21

…20 "If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”…


1st Corinthians 9:27
24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself be not disqualified from the prize.

You persist in your erroneous understanding of the Gospel and not only believe the lie but spread it to others as well. God have mercy on you, and on all who because of you were led astray from the true Church, and true Gospel. You are the twice admonished false teacher. You twist the word of God no different than the devil.
 
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The book of Acts says that we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
(Acts‬ ‭of the Apostles 13:39‬).

In obedience to God's instructions were for His good, then by obeying God we would be about earning favor with Him for which He would owe us compensation, however, obedience to God is for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so it is about out putting our faith in Him to guide us in how to rightly live, which is why Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah (Matthew 23:23). God is trustworthy, so His Torah therefore is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7, Nehemiah 9:13), so because of our faith in God we we can confidently depend on His Torah to guide us in how to rightly live (Habakkuk 2:4) and obediently uphold the Torah by faith even though we are not justified by our obedience to it as though it were something that could be earned (Romans 3:31).

While it was true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified, it is also true that Abraham believed, God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so he was not justified by his obedience as though it were something that could be earned, but rather the same grace and faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience to God. In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge because they did not understand that the righteousness of God comes only through faith in Christ, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the Torah as though righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own rather than by pursuing the Torah as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for Christ is the goal of the Torah for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Philippians 3:8, Paul had been outwardly keeping the Torah without having a focus on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the goal of the Torah and counted it all as rubbish. So legalism that focuses on what we are earning rather than on putting out faith in God has always been a perversion of the Torah that undermines its goal.

Paul was not talking about the "Law of Christ" when he said, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4). For Paul was talking about the Old Law because he was referring to those believers who wanted to be circumcised in order to be saved.

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

Circumcision is a part of the Law of Moses (the Old Law) and not the Law of Christ.

In fact, at the Jerusalem council, we learn that a certain sect of Pharisees wanted the Christians to be circumcised in order to be saved and to keep the whole of the Law of Moses (the Old Law).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).​


Paul was condemning the idea of being justified by the Old Law or the Law of Moses. There is a difference between the Law of Moses, and the Law of Christ. We can even see this in Scripture.

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Look at the context.
What Law was Paul talking about?
The Law of Moses, or the Law of Christ or some other Law, or all forms of Law in general?

" And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. " (Galatians 3:17)

What Law came 430 years after the Promise of Abraham?
The Law of Moses.



"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).



11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).



"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:" (Galatians 1:6).

Context:

"But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:" (Galatians 2:3).

In other words, Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" just like they were at the Jerusalem council in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.



While we can believe in the blood of Jesus for salvation (Romans 3:25), we also need to "...walk in the light as He is in the light... and the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light is loving your brother (Which is strongly implied in 1 John 2:9-11). Also, see: 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.



There are four aspects of salvation described in Scripture.

Check out this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.



Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
We are also told to put on the Lord Jesus Christ and not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14). Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. I believe this is in reference to grievous sin and not faults of character or minor transgressions.



If one is saved solely on the basis of believing in Jesus and the gospel, then one can be in an incestous relationship and still be saved, right? No amount of obedience to God's commands equates with salvation, so then one can be an axe murdering rapist and child abuser and still be saved all because they believe on Jesus. Is a person who makes any holy effort to prevent themselves from killing others a Works Salvationist?

God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Jesus lived in sinless obedience to the Torah and did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so obedience to the Torah is what it looks like to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus, and it wouldn't make sense to think that the Law of Christ was something other than the Torah that he taught by word and by example. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside God's law, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated the Law of Christ with the Torah. Likewise, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul directly contrasted God's law with the law of sin and death, so again he equated the Torah with the Law of the Spirit. In Psalms 19:7, the Torah is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, it is a Torah of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1, it blesses those who obey it, so when James 1:25 spoke about a perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Torah that wasn't already said in the Psalms. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Torah as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the law of love. In Deuteronomy 30:15-16, the Torah is a ministry of life and blessing. So arbitrarily placing verses in different columns does not establish any sort of distinction between the two.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Christ. The same goes for Acts 2:38 when Peter told his audience to repent for the forgiveness of sins. In Romans 15:4, Paul referred to OT Scripture as being written for our instruction and in 15:18-19, his Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to full obedience in word and in deed, so his Gospel was on the same page in regard to teaching repentance from our sins.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people repent and to return to obedience to His Torah and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be completely absurd to interpret Galatians 5:2-4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. His problem in Galatians was not with people teaching followers of God how to obey His commands as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with people teaching that Gentiles had to obey man-made works of the law in order to become justified.

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision. So the problem was that circumcision was being required for a man-made purpose that was above and beyond what God had commanded it for, which means that the Jerusalem Council upheld the Torah by correctly ruling against that requirement and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Torah was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from.
 
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