The ability of God - Does God always get His will done?

Kermos

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The ability of God to save man is exclusively God's. Man can not choose God. God chooses man.

Revealing the links between John 17:20, John 15:16, and John 15:13-15 post

Free-willians false claim that God is responsible sin in sinners (what some call cognitive dissonance) post in this thread

Neiher the IF/THEN logic conditional contruct nor a command conveys ability post along with the how the account of Cain and Abel relates with the IF/THEN logic post along with A BIBLICAL DECLARATION OF ABILITY AND INABILITY - CAPABILITY EXAMINED with COMMANDS EXPOSE GOOD AND EVIL - NOT CAPABILITY post

contrasting the old nature and the new nature post

debunking the Free-willian "sadistic cruel deity" and "spiritual rape" absurdities post

salvation and fruit, both are the acts of God alone post

Free-willians are outside of saving grace for they cannot please God (Romans 8:8) as well as they cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens their eyes post

the error of Armenians/Free-willians exposed post

The accurate grammatical structure of Revelation 13:8 analyzed post, and do not neglect the parallel in Revelation 17:8 and Matthew 25:34!

the meaning of "receive" post with application in Acts 2:38-39 and the subsequent we believers receive the Holy Spirit post

the "whoever believes" in John 3:16 is constrained by "believe" definition in John 6:29 and the "world" in John 17:9 has implications for "world" in John 3:16 post

"choose whom you will serve" in Joshua 24:15 does not indicate ability to serve God post

repentance is of/by/from God in man with accurate BIBLICAL CITATIONS post

"free will" does not occur in the New Testament except in Philemon 1:14 as an illusory metaphor post

The "you" occurrances in John 15:16 is the same as "you" occurrances in John 15:13-15 and John 15:16 and John 14:16-17 which are for all us believers in all time post. This is Love!
 
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renniks

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Only by the intellectualization of a human mind not grounded in proper linguistics nor spiritual matters.

You cannot do what is pleasing to God (Romans 8:8) such as obey God's commands (John 6:37, Matthew 11:28) unless God chooses you (John 15:16).

Lord Jesus' words of "if you do what I command you" is a conditional logic statement, yet the logic statement does not convey ability.

Jesus expresses ability in with "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me".

Jesus commands "Come to Me" (Matthew 11:28).

Salvation is contingent on the Father giving people to the Son.

Fruit is the evidence of salvation wrought by God alone.

Salvation is brought about by Jesus, Who is God, for He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

You laugh at the Apostle John's message.

You laugh at the Word of God Who speaks of eternal matters with elegance and precision!

You persist in trying to limit eternal Truth by the limits of temporal existence; in other words, you cry out "physical context" over "spiritual context and message".

In your mind, you have broken the gospel. A natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Corinthians 2:14).

May God grant you wisdom.
Why do you repeat everything over and over again?
The apostle John's message I accept. Your message...your applying of the pagan concept of fate to the conditional passages of John I reject.
 
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Kermos

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Why do you repeat everything over and over again?
The apostle John's message I accept. Your message...your applying of the pagan concept of fate to the conditional passages of John I reject.
Wow, it appears that you did not snip out any of the post!!! You seemed to have ignored some fo the content, but at least it appears you didn't snip out huge portions this time!

It's time to draw the connecting line between (1) fruit of the Spirit, (2) God alone choosing men for salvation, and (3) Jesus identifying friends.

For a person to be producing fruit, that is works of God (John 3:21, John 15:5, Matthew 7:15-20), then an act of God is already in progress within the person.

God's choosing of the person is already manifest (John 15:16).

God's choosing of the person is integral to the Fruit of the Spirit; in other words, the fruit of the Spirit cannot be separated from God's choosing of the person - which you attempt to do.

It takes an act of God for men to keep God's commandments, for Lord Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

In accordance with your logic, you are no friend of Jesus. You claim ability to choose God in direct defiance of the Word of God, Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as recorded in John's words which carries value for us believers according to Lord Jesus (John 17:20)so your own words cast you directly into the category of no friend of Jesus, Who says "You are My friends if you do what I command you" (John 15:14, and see John 3:21).

renniks, you quite literally excluded yourself with your words of "not us" from being one of His disciples when you wrote "He said that to his disciples, not us"; in other words, you set yourself in the population of people that are unbelievers.

You wrote "The apostle John's message I accept"; however, this current post demonstrates that you do not receive the Apostle John's words. I can honestly write this because you deny the clear spiritual connections between John 17:20, John 15:16, and John 15:13-15 (in this post in this thread).

You repeatedly expound the same error. Your foundation is shifting sand.

You persist in practicing lawlessness by indicating that you can choose God (Matthew 7:21-28), so you do not abide the words of Lord Jesus which carries severe consequences (Matthew 12:37, Mark 8:38).

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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renniks

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renniks, you quite literally excluded yourself with your words of "not us" from being one of His disciples when you wrote "He said that to his disciples, not us"; in other words, you set yourself in the population of people that are unbelievers.
If I have no Free Will, then I can't quite literally do anything. So according to your own theology, you are arguing with God.
 
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Kermos

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If I have no Free Will, then I can't quite literally do anything. So according to your own theology, you are arguing with God.
Oh, renniks, I've told you that the Word of God says:

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20)

The Word of God enlivens according to the will of God.

The Word of God says that the indwelling Holy Spirit teaches all things as well as brings to mind the all that the Word of God says to us believers (John 14:26, this is part of the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17).

For example, "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 6:24).

If a person serves the devil, then that person does Satan's will; more precisely, the evil one is that person's master, and the person's default nature is to serve the destroyer.

If a person serves God, then this person does the Father's will; more precisely, the Mighty God, Jesus Christ, is this person's master, and this person's Christlike nature is born of the Holy Spirit to serve Majesty on High, the One True God.

Renniks, your actions, your words are fruit that expose who you serve.

You and all people are incapable of choosing God (John 15:16), and God tells me to proclaim such for God shares glory with no one in the salvation of men (Matthew 28:18-20, Isaiah 42:8, John 15:5).

"YHWH is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge; My savior" (2 Samuel 22:2-3).

Hear the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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renniks

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You and all people are incapable of choosing God (John 15:16), and God tells me to proclaim such for God shares glory with no one in the salvation of men (Matthew 28:18-20, Isaiah 42:8, John 15:5).
Ok, then, I'll just sit here and do nothing and wait for God to choose me, I guess?
Or I could do as Jesus says and seek him. But not according to you.
 
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Kermos

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Ok, then, I'll just sit here and do nothing and wait for God to choose me, I guess?
Or I could do as Jesus says and seek him. But not according to you.
The Master Orator, Jesus Christ, He being the Word of God, is AMAZINGLY AWESOME!

Christ Jesus commands "ask" and "seek" and "knock" (Matthew 7:7, Luke 11:9). As we know, a command does not convey ability (post in this thread. For we that hear the Christ, He commands "seek", and He provides the promise of "and you will find", but the work of seeking is a good work, and the Christ attributes our believers good works as being wrought in God (John 3:21).

The Christ of us Christians says:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

Clearly, God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God.

Clearly, fruit in we believers is by/of/through God.

Clearly, for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God.

Clearly, we believers being born again is by/of/through God.

No, renniks, you cannot seek the Christ without the acts of God in you, and you deny the Word of God that reveals these acts of God again and again. You keep trying to steal that which is God's, renniks.

Fall down in front of the Consuming Fire and cry for mercy for your rebellion.

You persist in practicing lawlessness by indicating that you can choose God (Matthew 7:21-28), so you do not abide the words of Lord Jesus which carries severe consequences (Matthew 12:37, Mark 8:38).

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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renniks

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The Master Orator, Jesus Christ, He being the Word of God, is AMAZINGLY AWESOME!
Yes, he is, but you sadly misunderstand what he says.
I recommend reading A.W Tozers book, " The pursuit of God."
And maybe for some background music, the newsboys, " Love, Liberty, Disco."

You might discover that the Jesus who said those things is looking for a real relationship with you, and isn't the dictator you seem to think that he is. Seek and you will find.
 
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Kermos

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Yes, he is, but you sadly misunderstand what he says.
I recommend reading A.W Tozers book, " The pursuit of God."
And maybe for some background music, the newsboys, " Love, Liberty, Disco."

You might discover that the Jesus who said those things is looking for a real relationship with you, and isn't the dictator you seem to think that he is. Seek and you will find.
Lord Jesus does it all.

Our merciful and loving God is Benefactor, and we believers are beneficiaries.

Our gracious Benefactor produces (1) divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, (2) beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, (3) beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, and (4) beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit.

We beneficiaries are blessed receivers from the amazingly awesome Benefactor!

"where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it" (Hebrews 9:16).

Christ Jesus says "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20), and He is Lord and God (John 20:28) and Benefactor.

THE BENEFACTOR ESTABLISHES A DEEPLY LOVING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BENEFICIARY. PRAISE BE TO THE LIVING GOD!

The Christ of us Christians says:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

Clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God.

Clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God.

Clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God.

Clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God.

Christ Jesus commands "seek" (Matthew 7:7, Luke 11:9). It is established fact that a command does not convey ability (post in this thread). The Christ commands "seek", and He provides the promise of "and you will find", but the work of seeking is a good work, and the Christ attributes our believers good works as being wrought in God (John 3:21). Only we believers of whom God has opened our ears are capable of hearing and obeying the command in righteousness.

You, renniks, claim to seek, but you do so in your own power - at your own admission by the words you have written.

You do not seek by the Power of God, Christ Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Renniks, you unwisely cut the Word of God out, and you compound your error by trying to replace the Word of God with commentary.

Lord Jesus quoted the Prophet Isaiah with "in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:9).

One of the precepts of men is the ability of men to choose God unto salvation. The work of choosing God is deception - a lie. No practicing liar will enter the reward (Revelation 21:27).

Another one of the precepts of men is that man directs the man's faith to place the man's faith in God. The man placing faith in God is deception - a lie. No practicing liar will enter the reward (Revelation 21:27).

The Word of God is not enough for you, renniks.

In your mind, you try to erase the clear meaning of the Word of God.

You have an idol which is your choice toward God.

Lord Jesus' words are clear.

Stick to the Word of God!

Fall down in front of the Consuming Fire and cry for mercy for your rebellion.

You persist in practicing lawlessness by indicating that you can choose God (Matthew 7:21-28), so you do not abide the words of Lord Jesus which carries severe consequences (Matthew 12:37, Mark 8:38).

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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renniks

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Renniks, you unwisely cut the Word of God out, and you compound your error by trying to replace the Word of God with commentary.
Your theology contradicts itself. If this were true, it would be God's will for me to be in error. You never reply to my objections, you just repeat your same opinions over and over. I see no point in continuing.
Have a good new year.
 
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Kermos

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Your theology contradicts itself. If this were true, it would be God's will for me to be in error. You never reply to my objections, you just repeat your same opinions over and over. I see no point in continuing.
Have a good new year.
The Apostle Peter wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

A tightly-coupled relationship exists between "self will" and "free will"; consequently, the Apostle Paul recorded free will as illusion (post in this thread) while Peter recorded self will as condemnation.

Thus Peter and Paul are in agreement because neither "self will" nor "free will" lead to eternal life!

In your "self will" you erase in your mind the Word of God which equates to declaring yourself to be your own benefactor instead of the Father in heaven being Benefactor (post in this thread), for you say that you control your salvation in your self will choice toward God instead of your heart and soul harmonizing with Lord Jesus' words as well as the Apostle Paul's writing of "the love of God controls us" (2 Corinthians 5:14).

As I repeatedly explain about error and your error, the default nature of man is enmity toward God (Ephesians 2:1-2), for example please see this post in this thread. The Gospel of Christ is the Power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16), and the Word of God converts the soul (Psalm 19:7, John 3:5-8), and God uses God's people to convey the Word of God (Romans 10:14)! So I speak and write according to the will of God (Matthew 28:18-20).

You persist in practicing lawlessness by indicating that you can choose God (Matthew 7:21-28), so you do not abide the words of Lord Jesus which carries severe consequences (Matthew 12:37, Mark 8:38).

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Fall down in front of the Consuming Fire and cry for mercy for your rebellion.

The Word of God is complete Truth (John 1:14, John 14:6)! Lord Jesus Christ is the loving and absolute Redeemer (John 3:5-8, John 3:21, John 6:29, John 15:13-14, John 15:16)!

May God grant you wisdom!
 
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renniks

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Hello? Kermos? You said free will doesn't exist, remember? If that's true, there's no such thing as Free Will! If that's true, no one does anything with thier self will, because they have none! Can't you see your obvious contradiction? If that's true, then if one says they control their salvation, which I never said, BTW, then God has to be making them say that! Your theology contradicts itself. I don't care if you want to believe nonsense, but at least it should be consistent nonsense!
your "self will" you erase in your mind the Word of God which equates to declaring yourself to be your own benefactor instead of the Father in heaven being Benefactor (post in this thread), for you say that you control your salvation in your self will choice toward God instead of your heart and soul harmonizing with Lord Jesus' words as well as the Apostle Paul's writing of "the love of God controls us" (2 Corinthians 5:14).
 
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renniks

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As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
According to you, I can't be in rebellion against anything, unless God wills it.
So either God caused me to believe that Jesus was addressing his 11 disciples there in that verse, or you are wrong about Free Will. Which is it?
 
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Kermos

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Hello? Kermos? You said free will doesn't exist, remember? If that's true, there's no such thing as Free Will! If that's true, no one does anything with thier self will, because they have none! Can't you see your obvious contradiction? If that's true, then if one says they control their salvation, which I never said, BTW, then God has to be making them say that! Your theology contradicts itself. I don't care if you want to believe nonsense, but at least it should be consistent nonsense!
"Self will" does not equal "free will".

In 2 Peter 2:9-10, Peter writes about the "self will" of the unrighteous people - they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties - such as the Word of God.

In Philemon 1:14, Paul writes of "free will" as illusion.

In effect, you do say you control your salvation because for you the pivot point of your salvation is your claimed choice toward God, yet your claimed choice is in direct denial of the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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renniks

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"Self will" does not equal "free will".

In 2 Peter 2:9-10, Peter writes about the "self will" of the unrighteous people - they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties - such as the Word of God.

In Philemon 1:4, Paul writes that "free will" is an illusion.

In effect, you do say you control your salvation because for you the pivot point of your salvation is your claimed choice toward God, yet your claimed choice is in direct denial of the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
I don't think you know what free will is. Again if Free Will is an illusion, EVERY thing that happened ever, is God's will. It makes us all nothing but robots programmed by God.
 
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Kermos

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According to you, I cant do any such thing, unless God makes me, so why are you telling me to excerise a will I don't have?
You've done it again. You try to impose ability in a command, and that is not proper linguistics. A command does not convey ability (post in this thread).

Lord Jesus says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5), but renniks claims that renniks can do something in renniks own free will.

Paul wrote that "free will" is an illusion in Philemon 1:14, so you are writing based on own imagination not Scripture.
 
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Kermos

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According to you, I can't be in rebellion against anything, unless God wills it.
So either God caused me to believe that Jesus was addressing his 11 disciples there in that verse, or you are wrong about Free Will. Which is it?
The Apostle Paul wrote "if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4).

You also seem to have forgotten that the first nature of man is in rebellion to God as detailed in this post in this thread.

In your lust for being in control of your own salvation, you deny the words of Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
 
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