two covenants

Mercy74 said:

Did Moses receive the 10 commandments or law on that holy mountain?

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Yes absolutely.


Did the commandments originate with Moses?


As I said before, Abraham keep His commandments 430 years before the law of Moses.


Lucifer was cast out of heaven for coveting a place on God’s throne that was not for him.



JLB

Mercy74 said:

James did not say that there was no such thing as "faith alone". James says that faith by itself is dead! In other words faith is made alive through good deeds.

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Faith is made alive by obedience.

The corresponding action of obedience.

Abraham was justified by his work of obedience to offer his son Isaac on the altar.




JLB

JLB777 said:

So you believe a Christian must keep the law of Moses to be saved.


What animals did you sacrifice this week in Jerusalem?


Answer the question or stop teaching things you don’t understand.




JLB

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You accuse me of those things that you do. I asked you did Moses sacrifice animals in Jerusalem? I said you must keep the law of Moses TO BE SAVED FROM SIN. The violation of the law is sin!

JLB777 said:

Yes absolutely.


Did the commandments originate with Moses?


As I said before, Abraham keep His commandments 430 years before the law of Moses.


Lucifer was cast out of heaven for coveting a place on God’s throne that was not for him.



JLB

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Do you consider coveting to be a sin?

Mercy74 said:

You accuse me of those things that you do. I asked you did Moses sacrifice animals in Jerusalem? I said you must keep the law of Moses TO BE SAVED FROM SIN. The violation of the law is sin!

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I see you don’t even understand the things your promoting.

Do you believe that there is some other place that God authorized to sacrifice animals for sin, other than Jerusalem?


You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you.



“These are the statutes and judgments which you shall be careful to observe in the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you to possess, all the days that you live on the earth. You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree. And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. You shall not worship the Lord your God with such things.
“But you shall seek the place where the Lord your God chooses, out of all your tribes, to put His name for His dwelling place; and there you shall go. There you shall take your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the heave offerings of your hand, your vowed offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. And there you shall eat before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice in all to which you have put your hand, you and your households, in which the Lord your God has blessed you.
“You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you. But when you cross over the Jordan and dwell in the land which the Lord your God is giving you to inherit, and He gives you rest from all your enemies round about, so that you dwell in safety, then there will be the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide. There you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the heave offerings of your hand, and all your choice offerings which you vow to the Lord.
Deuteronomy 12:1-11




JLB

Mercy74 said:

Do you consider coveting to be a sin?

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Yes.



JLB

Mercy74 said:

Do you consider coveting to be a sin?

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Yes.



Do you believe eating bacon is a sin?

Mercy74 said:

You accuse me of those things that you do. I asked you did Moses sacrifice animals in Jerusalem? I said you must keep the law of Moses TO BE SAVED FROM SIN. The violation of the law is sin!

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So when the temple was destroyed in the 1st century, did it make following the law impossible? How many of the 600 + laws involve the Temple in Jerusalem? When was the last time the chief priest in Israel offered a sin offering for the nation in the holy of holies of the Temple?

Righteousness comes from faith alone. Works can confirm faith is genuine, but works do not provide righteousness... faith alone does that. This is why Abraham was made righteous for his faith DECADES before he offered Isaac on the altar. David speaks of the righteousness which comes without the law:


Trust is the literal translation for faith in Hebrew. Habakuk also speaks to the righteousness of faith:

JLB777 said:

I see you don’t even understand the things your promoting.

Do you believe that there is some other place that God authorized to sacrifice animals for sin, other than Jerusalem?


You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you.



“These are the statutes and judgments which you shall be careful to observe in the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you to possess, all the days that you live on the earth. You shall utterly destroy all the places where the nations which you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree. And you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and burn their wooden images with fire; you shall cut down the carved images of their gods and destroy their names from that place. You shall not worship the Lord your God with such things.
“But you shall seek the place where the Lord your God chooses, out of all your tribes, to put His name for His dwelling place; and there you shall go. There you shall take your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the heave offerings of your hand, your vowed offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. And there you shall eat before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice in all to which you have put your hand, you and your households, in which the Lord your God has blessed you.
“You shall not at all do as we are doing here today—every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes— for as yet you have not come to the rest and the inheritance which the Lord your God is giving you. But when you cross over the Jordan and dwell in the land which the Lord your God is giving you to inherit, and He gives you rest from all your enemies round about, so that you dwell in safety, then there will be the place where the Lord your God chooses to make His name abide. There you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the heave offerings of your hand, and all your choice offerings which you vow to the Lord.
Deuteronomy 12:1-11




JLB

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I asked you a simple question: Did Moses offer weekly sacrifices in Jerusalem? You failed to answer my question instead you tried to tell me what I don't understand. You don't know what I know or understand.

The answer is NO!

I will answer my own question since you have failed to answer my question.

Again, MOSES NEVER OFFERED WEEKLY SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM!

I know what the law says, it is obvious you don't wish to acknowledge the truth concerning sacrifices. What you call the law of Moses was never practiced by Moses. You don't practice what you are trying to teach on this forum!. Stop "parrokeeting" what I'm saying about you to me on this forum.

Gup20 said:

So when the temple was destroyed in the 1st century, did it make following the law impossible? How many of the 600 + laws involve the Temple in Jerusalem? When was the last time the chief priest in Israel offered a sin offering for the nation in the holy of holies of the Temple?

Righteousness comes from faith alone. Works can confirm faith is genuine, but works do not provide righteousness... faith alone does that. This is why Abraham was made righteous for his faith DECADES before he offered Isaac on the altar. David speaks of the righteousness which comes without the law:

[Psa 32:1-11 NASB] 1 [A Psalm] of David. A Maskil. How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered! 2 How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit! 3 When I kept silent [about my sin,] my body wasted away Through my groaning all day long. 4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My vitality was drained away [as] with the fever heat of summer. Selah. 5 I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah. 6 Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him. 7 You are my hiding place; You preserve me from trouble; You surround me with songs of deliverance. Selah. 8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. 9 Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, Whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, [Otherwise] they will not come near to you. 10 Many are the sorrows of the wicked, But he who trusts in the LORD, lovingkindness shall surround him. 11 Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous ones; And shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.

[Psa 13:5 NASB] 5 But I have trusted in Your lovingkindness; My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation.

[Psa 78:22 NASB] 22 Because they did not believe in God And did not trust in His salvation.​

Trust is the literal translation for faith in Hebrew. Habakuk also speaks to the righteousness of faith:

[Hab 2:4 NASB] 4 "Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.​

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Many righteous men offered sacrifices before the temple was built.

Mercy74 said:

Many righteous men offered sacrifices before the temple was built.

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So did Cain... how did that work out for him?

Gup20 said:

So did Cain... how did that work out for him?

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Cain was not righteous. Noah became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with his faith. Hebrews 11:7

Mercy74 said:

I asked you a simple question: Did Moses offer weekly sacrifices in Jerusalem? You failed to answer my question instead you tried to tell me what I don't understand. You don't know what I know or understand.

The answer is NO!

I will answer my own question since you have failed to answer my question.

Again, MOSES NEVER OFFERED WEEKLY SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM!

I know what the law says, it is obvious you don't wish to acknowledge the truth concerning sacrifices. What you call the law of Moses was never practiced by Moses. You don't practice what you are trying to teach on this forum!. Stop "parrokeeting" what I'm saying about you to me on this forum.

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Moses had the Tabernacle... a mobile temple. This is where the Holy of Holies was and where Aaron would go to offer the sin offering for the nation.

When was the last time any Jew did animal sacrifices anywhere?

Gup20 said:

Moses had the Tabernacle... a mobile temple. This is where the Holy of Holies was and where Aaron would go to offer the sin offering for the nation.

When was the last time any Jew did animal sacrifices anywhere?

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Gup20 said:

Moses had the Tabernacle... a mobile temple. This is where the Holy of Holies was and where Aaron would go to offer the sin offering for the nation.

When was the last time any Jew did animal sacrifices anywhere?

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That is an excellent question. Now we can have an intelligent discussion concerning the scriptures. I will gladly answer your question but first let me ask you a question: Who performed sacrifices in the bible prior to the Levites?

Mercy74 said:

Cain was not righteous. Noah became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with his faith. Hebrews 11:7

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That is my point, brother. Cain made sacrifices, but his offering was rejected. So it is not sacrifices or altars which save. In fact, at one point God said He hates them!

Gup20 said:

So when the temple was destroyed in the 1st century, did it make following the law impossible? How many of the 600 + laws involve the Temple in Jerusalem? When was the last time the chief priest in Israel offered a sin offering for the nation in the holy of holies of the Temple?

Righteousness comes from faith alone. Works can confirm faith is genuine, but works do not provide righteousness... faith alone does that. This is why Abraham was made righteous for his faith DECADES before he offered Isaac on the altar. David speaks of the righteousness which comes without the law:

[Psa 32:1-11 NASB] 1 [A Psalm] of David. A Maskil. How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered! 2 How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit! 3 When I kept silent [about my sin,] my body wasted away Through my groaning all day long. 4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; My vitality was drained away [as] with the fever heat of summer. Selah. 5 I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD"; And You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah. 6 Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him. 7 You are my hiding place; You preserve me from trouble; You surround me with songs of deliverance. Selah. 8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. 9 Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, Whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, [Otherwise] they will not come near to you. 10 Many are the sorrows of the wicked, But he who trusts in the LORD, lovingkindness shall surround him. 11 Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous ones; And shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.

[Psa 13:5 NASB] 5 But I have trusted in Your lovingkindness; My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation.

[Psa 78:22 NASB] 22 Because they did not believe in God And did not trust in His salvation.​

Trust is the literal translation for faith in Hebrew. Habakuk also speaks to the righteousness of faith:

[Hab 2:4 NASB] 4 "Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.​

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It was in David's heart to build a temple for YHWH. David did offer sacrifices. David did build a "temporary" house for the ark of the covenant.

Gup20 said:

That is my point, brother. Cain made sacrifices, but his offering was rejected. So it is not sacrifices or altars which save. In fact, at one point God said He hates them!

[Isa 1:11-18 NASB] 11 "What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats. 12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies-- I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon [festivals] and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing [them.] 15 "So when you spread out your hands [in prayer,] I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow. 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.​

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Although Cain's offering was rejected; Abel's offering was accepted by YHWH. Abel was declared righteous because of his offering (Hebrews 11:4)

Gup20 said:

That is my point, brother. Cain made sacrifices, but his offering was rejected. So it is not sacrifices or altars which save. In fact, at one point God said He hates them!

[Isa 1:11-18 NASB] 11 "What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats. 12 "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts? 13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies-- I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly. 14 "I hate your new moon [festivals] and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing [them.] 15 "So when you spread out your hands [in prayer,] I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. 16 "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow. 18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.​

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How did Noah become heir to the righteousness from his faith? He built the ark; Moses servant built the ark of the covenant.

Mercy74 said:

It was in David's heart to build a temple for YHWH. David did offer sacrifices. David did build a "temporary" house for the ark of the covenant.

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And where are these now?

Mercy74 said:

Although Cain's offering was rejected; Abel's offering was accepted by YHWH. Abel was declared righteous because of his offering (Hebrews 11:4)

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And the Jews of today? Do they offer burnt sacrifices as well?