What left must happen before Jesus return

bromius said:

that will leave you thoroughly confused

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I do wholeheartedly agree with this portion of your post. As to the rest of it, that's another story.

DavidPT said:

No I don't believe anyone will be saved after the rapture since I take the rapture and 2nd coming to be referring to the same event. You of course are meaning if there was such a thing as a Pretrib rapture. So let's assume there is such a thing, and that folks still get saved after they have been left behind when the rapture took place. What does getting saved logically make that person?

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It just means that this person would have everlasting life.

DavidPT said:

Doesn't it logically make that person a part of the church?

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I don't think so. And, this person would not be judged until the great white throne judgement. We do know that some at the great white throne are given everlasting life.. right.

The church age, or the age of grace, is over. So these would not be part of the church of Christ. IMO

DavidPT said:

And if yes, and the fact these get left behind when the rapture occurs, this means they have no choice but to face the GT, regardless. What this logically adds up to then, now that they are part of the church, is, that the church goes through the GT after all. Yet Pretribbers claim that the church doesn't go through the GT.

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We are, now, in the age of Grace. There is no Jew, Gentile.. Just believers and non believers.. Saved and not saved.. After the rapture, we are in a new age.

JacksBratt said:

OK. Let's look at that. With Noah, God put them all on a boat.. With Lot, He sent angels to move them outside the perimeter of the carnage..

So, you are claiming that the Lord will protect all of us. Just how do you propose that God will protect billions of people around the world? I believe you are right.. but I think that He is going to remove us completely, instantly.

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Noah and Lot were not removed to heaven, neither will we be now.

You ask me to explain how God does things?
You show a complete naivety in what God can do and a total lack of knowing what He has promised to do for us.
He saved and protected the three men in the furnace, Daniel 3:12-27, and He promises to do the same for us. Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 41:13, 2 Peter 2:9

What would be the point of taking all Christians to Heaven. To get harp practice?
No; we have work to do here and that continues until Jesus Returns. Matthew 28:19-20

keras said:

Noah and Lot were not removed to heaven, neither will we be now.

You ask me to explain how God does things?
You show a complete naivety in what God can do and a total lack of knowing what He has promised to do for us.
He saved and protected the three men in the furnace, Daniel 3:12-27, and He promises to do the same for us. Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 41:13, 2 Peter 2:9

What would be the point of taking all Christians to Heaven. To get harp practice?
No; we have work to do hear and that continues until Jesus Returns. Matthew 28:19-20

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We have to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world and I am glad that we are in the age of grace. I have been dealing with fear over the Mark of the Beast. You can read the OCD posts if you want to know more it has been quite the battle. I am glad to know that Jesus will rapture me and that my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life.

DavidPT said:

Read what the text says though. which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


If they were keeping the commandments of God, and assuming a rapture takes place prior to the GT, why did they get left behind then? How can someone not be keeping the commandments of God, thus they are left behind because they didn't, then in very short period of time they now are keeping the commandments of God all of a sudden like? The text indicates 'they', meaning numerous. Do they all, after getting left behind, start keeping the commandments of God, all of them doing that at the same time?

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Here is why:
The holy people of God, now every faithful Christian, who will be living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-12, do get taken over by the leader of the One World Govt; the Anti-Christ, as described in Zechariah 14:1-2

This will happen at the midpoint of the last 7 years before Jesus Returns and it is because they failed to trust solely on the Lord for their protection.

Daniel 9:27 and Isaiah 28:14-15 tell of a treaty, a peace treaty for a seven year period, made between ‘many’ of the citizens of Beulah and the leader of the OWG, that God calls; a treaty with death.

We see in Daniel 11:32, how the Christians are divided into 2 groups, those who agreed to this seven year peace treaty with the AC, and those who refused to violate their covenant with God. This conquest and division of the Lord’s people, at the mid point of the seven years, is seen in Zechariah 14:1-2 and Revelation 13:5-7

Then in Revelation 12:6-17, those two groups of Christians are described; the faithful ones are taken to a place of safety during the 3 1/2 years, [or 42 months or 1260 days] and the other group remain, as per Revelation 12:17.
Then Jesus Returns, destroys the Anti-Christ's army and chains him up. Jesus sends out His angels to gather His people from their place of safety and all who have refused the mark of the beast, Matthew 24:31, to where He is; that is in Jerusalem, from where He will rule the world for 1000 years.

sportsfan said:

We have to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world and I am glad that we are in the age of grace. I have been dealing with fear over the Mark of the Beast. You can read the OCD posts if you want to know more it has been quite the battle. I am glad to know that Jesus will rapture me and that my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life.

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If there is no rapture such as that though, your only way out seems to be, that you will die before the time of the mark of the beast. But if there is no rapture before the time of the beast, and that you never died before that time either, that only leaves one option remaining, what you fear the most, is what you will have no choice but to face head on.

DavidPT said:

If there is no rapture such as that though, your only way out seems to be, that you will die before the time of the mark of the beast. But if there is no rapture before the time of the beast, and that you never died before that time either, that only leaves one option remaining, what you fear the most, is what you will have no choice but to face head on.

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Why don't you realize that we Christians will not be a part of the One World Govt?
We will live in all of the holy Land, the Lord's faithful people, blessed and protected by Him. Zechariah 8:1-8, Revelation 12:6-17

We will not have to take the 'mark of the beast', to survive. That is for the godless nations. Those of us who do go out to the nations to proclaim the coming Kingdom, Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7, [the angel described in Rev 14:6-7 is an allegory for the 144,000] will have the mark of God. Revelation 7:3

DavidPT said:

If there is no rapture such as that though, your only way out seems to be, that you will die before the time of the mark of the beast. But if there is no rapture before the time of the beast, and that you never died before that time either, that only leaves one option remaining, what you fear the most, is what you will have no choice but to face head on.

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I was discussing the rapture with my friend and he doesn't think it will happen in our lifetime. I realize that most of our fears never come true there is no Antichrist or False Prophet on the Earth to have taken the Mark of the Beast the yellow flickering light claims it gave me the mark of the Beast turning me into a false prophet but it was a hallucination in the shower that followed me to the door. I was in a nightmare like state and it was out of my control. My friend sees the Holy Spirit in me as well as my pastors and other family members and the Church. I realize that I have a mental illness which makes me think I am a false prophet when I believe in God. Only God knows the day and hour of his return and I just need to focus and look forward to it and stay in the Holy Bible and praise him and move past my fear God would never allow me to be supernaturally tempted.

eye_spy_the_cia said:

And what if Trump is the Man of Lawlessness?

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Really funny, but I think they are better candidates way above him. Who would take that job right away.

Lovetrusion said:

Really funny, but I think they are better candidates way above him. Who would take that job right away.

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Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

Lovetrusion said:

Really funny, but I think they are better candidates way above him. Who would take that job right away.

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Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

Lovetrusion said:

Really funny, but I think they are better candidates way above him. Who would take that job right away.

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Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

Lovetrusion said:

Really funny, but I think they are better candidates way above him. Who would take that job right away.

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Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

sportsfan said:

Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

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Your question seems to be legit and it was for me for a little while but recently I have been convicted not to think like that. Why? Simple because he is of flesh and doing so we end up lying, slandering, murdering by heart which are all Sin, Sin which is judgement. We should be enthralled by the thrill of knowing God and asking him to give us the spirit of discernment and courage to continue on.

Do not be inspired by the spoils of geopolitics so much, because therein lays a spiritual warfare and inquire with the Lord here. Daniel 10:13 Peace treaties have always been signed, but the world will have to see a lot of chaos as mentioned in the Bible before he just pops up from nowhere to give us our 'peace' lol. That day will be very interesting I tell you. So now be vigilant but let God guide you.

If there is anything to go by, it is to pray for everyone... our battle is not against flesh... Its a Spiritual warfare.

Lovetrusion said:

Your question seems to be legit and it was for me for a little while but recently I have been convicted not to think like that. Why? Simple because he is of flesh and doing so we end up lying, slandering, murdering by heart which are all Sin, Sin which is judgement. We should be enthralled by the thrill of knowing God and asking him to give us the spirit of discernment and courage to continue on.

Do not be inspired by the spoils of geopolitics so much, because therein lays a spiritual warfare and inquire with the Lord here. Daniel 10:13 Peace treaties have always been signed, but the world will have to see a lot of chaos as mentioned in the Bible before he just pops up from nowhere to give us our 'peace' lol. That day will be very interesting I tell you. So now be vigilant but let God guide you.

If there is anything to go by, it is to pray for everyone... our battle is not against flesh... Its a Spiritual warfare.

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So true we are not battling flesh and blood but the power and principalities who works in the sons of disobediencedisobedience.

DavidPT said:

Noah and Lot were not removed to heaven, neither will we be now.

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They didn't have to be taken to heaven for the comparison to work. They were taken out of the carnage. As we will be

DavidPT said:

What would be the point of taking all Christians to Heaven. To get harp practice?

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No, this will be when we are judged, rewarded, the marriage of Christ and His bride and the marriage feast.

DavidPT said:

No; we have work to do here and that continues until Jesus Returns. Matthew 28:19-20

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What would our work be? We will no longer have the Holy Spirit with us.. and we can do nothing without Him. We also cannot save anyone as that is the work of the Holy Spirit.

What good will we be when we cannot buy sell or even show our faces? Just ducking and running for our lives, trying to survive, feed ourselves and not get caught...

If we get caught or turned in by a family member or friend.. It will be "bow to the beast and take the mark" or "off with your head"...

keras said:

Why don't you realize that we Christians will not be a part of the One World Govt?
We will live in all of the holy Land, the Lord's faithful people, blessed and protected by Him. Zechariah 8:1-8, Revelation 12:6-17

We will not have to take the 'mark of the beast', to survive. That is for the godless nations. Those of us who do go out to the nations to proclaim the coming Kingdom, Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7, [the angel described in Rev 14:6-7 is an allegory for the 144,000] will have the mark of God. Revelation 7:3

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I have heard you talk of this before..

You do realize that the Holy Land is not a Christ believing place. In fact only 144,000 will convert to be messianic and accept their savior.

How on earth are you going to get 2 + billion Believing Christians into that land...?

I know, I know... God has a plan..

I agree... It's the rapture and it removes the Church from the earth, along with the Holy Spirit. This way Satan runs amuck unimpeded.

sportsfan said:

Who do you think the false prophet will be? I am glad that the rapture occurs first before the tribulation. Donald Trump Junior has discussed a peace treaty with Israel and Palestine but he doesn't fit the profile.

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Do you think "Donald Junior" is the "last Trump" LOL