How does a person get saving faith?

GenemZ

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Though we have a body, we are not the body. Much like a driver is not the car. However, most people believe they are the body, and because of this identification with the body, they are in bondage to the flesh, which is against the Truth of the matter. Because of this bondage, the soul ends up believing that it too is part of the flesh, and when the body dies, so too does the soul.

Flesh, is the belief of being the body.

Flesh is the source of where the depravity of man is located. Its biological in nature., That is how it could be passed down from Adam in procreation. Its also why Jesus could not have a human father. Because the sin nature defect is not passed down by the ovum of the mother!

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

Genesis 3:15​

Notice how the woman's seed alone was designated to be the source of the Messiah. In the mind of the ancient Jews that was a very odd wording. Because the man was the one normally designated the seed in progeny.

That is why Mary could be a sinner, yet produce a sinless body. For, the Holy Spirit provided the perfect male genetic material needed to fertilize the ovum of Mary. Jesus could have no human biological father for that reason.
 
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jahel

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I understand that a believer is three parts - human spirit, soul, and body.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thes 5:23

There are three parts to the believer. But, its not body, mind, and soul. For your soul is your mind as well.

The Bible in the Greek breaks down the two operations of our mind. Kardia and Nous.

Kardia we see translated "heart." Nous is translated "mind."

Our mind -nous - is where we gather information through study and observation. That information is stored in memory of the nous for later retrieval if needed by your heart. When you took a written test it was the strength of your 'nous' being tested. When application in your life is needed of that knowledge, its then transferred and operating in your 'heart'- kardia.

The heart -kardia - is the central part of your expression of your unique life. Its what you have thought through and determined as to what you want to believe, think, and act upon.

Another interesting point:

The Bible in the Greek breaks down the functions of the two hemispheres of our human brain. Nous, and Kardia. Also the Hebrew has its own words to describe the same function of the human soul.

Adam was created trichotomous. Three parts. Body, soul, and human spirit.

When first created Adam was spiritual in nature. When he fell he became spiritually dead. Then he became body and soul only. After repentance the Lord restored Adam in regeneration.

Keep in mind. When the Lord provided those animal skins for Adam and Eve, blood had been shed on their behalf. For both Adam and Eve inwardly repented and God restored them spiritually.

grace and peace...
Getting to the heart of nous: Intellect plus spiritual understanding: the art and soul of spirituality as a reliable means of interaction with God. Nous is interpretated to mean both intellect and spiritual understanding. Ephesians 4:17 shows a darkened intellect while Ephesians 4:23 shows an enlightened intellect. Believers must have a renewed nous. The organ (nous) with function (dianoia) needs to commune with God functionally as the way to be more and more in tune with God.

Ephesians 4:18 You should no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk in the vanity of their nous, being darkened in their dianoia.
 
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GenemZ

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Getting to the heart of nous: Intellect plus spiritual understanding: the art and soul of spirituality as a reliable means of interaction with God. Nous is interpretated to mean both intellect and spiritual understanding. Ephesians 4:17

Good to see! :clap:

Ephesians 4:17 that you cited reveals that the nous operates in the unspiritual unbeliever as well.

For there is no spiritual connotation with nous as far as the word's meaning. In a spiritual context, the nous (mind) is vital in our spiritual operation.

For we can learn sound doctrine before we believe it. Its only knowledge at that point. Its taken in by our mind (nous). Then, recall by means of the Holy Spirit teaching our spirit, can utilize that knowledge and transform it by transferring it to your kardia (heart) where that knowledge now takes on power and life in Christ.

Too many Christians fear "knowledge" as being unspiritual. They would rather have something to feel about in their emotions. That is why the church is in the trouble it is in today. Knowledge of Truth from God's Word is the key to spirituality. It does not matter what book of the Bible is being taught. If the teaching is accurate and sound? That knowledge God honors in the believer who loves knowledge of the Word.

grace and peace...
 
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Ahermit

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@genez , I am sorry you don't see / hear what I am saying. I understand you and myself, but you only understand you. This happens when one is busy being a some-body (flesh) as oppose to being a no-body (being).

May your faith allow you to ponder d e e p e r and farther away from your 'self' to see the truth more clearly.
 
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GenemZ

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@genez , I am sorry you don't see / hear what I am saying. I understand you and myself, but you only understand you. This happens when one is busy being a some-body (flesh) as oppose to being a no-body (being).

May your faith allow you to ponder d e e p e r and farther away from your 'self' to see the truth more clearly.
Thank you Buddah in the Lord. :angel:
 
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GenemZ

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Good to see the mind of Christ as part of teaching!

We have been given the written Word. We have been given the mind of Christ in writing who is the Word.

Someday a good teacher may teach you the Book of Ruth. Some Christians may complain that you need to only learn about books pertaining directly to Christ. Yet, Christ thinks with the book of Ruth when its pertaining to a situation where we need the application of the Word to some given situation.

The more we understand the Word? The more we are able to be one with Christ in thinking a situation through, to discover wisdom for that given situation.

When it says we are to be here in His stead?


Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God
were making His appeal through us.
We implore you on
behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God."
2 Cor 5:20​


To have God reasoning through us can only happen if a believer seeks and prays and finds a good pastor-teacher.A pastor-teacher who has been made able by God's grace to teach sound doctrine consistently.

For anything we believe that is not sound doctrine? Makes us a bad ambassador. An ambassador who misrepresents the thinking of the one who sent him to represent Him. We do not represent Him in our thinking when false doctrine finds access into our hearts.

That is why false doctrine is such a scourge. Yet those who promote such wrong thinking, are always the ones to demand..."Where is the love?"

It must be the love of the Truth before any other love is to be found.


grace and peace...
 
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jahel

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We have been given the written Word. We have been given the mind of Christ in writing who is the Word.

Someday a good teacher may teach you the Book of Ruth. Some Christians may complain that you need to only learn about books pertaining directly to Christ. Yet, Christ thinks with the book of Ruth when its pertaining to a situation where we need the application of the Word to some given situation.

The more we understand the Word? The more we are able to be one with Christ in thinking a situation through to discover wisdom for that given situation. When it says we are to be here in His stead?


Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God
were making His appeal through us.
We implore you on
behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God."
2 Cor 5:20​


To have God reasoning through us can only happen if a believer seeks and prays and finds a good pastor-teacher.A pastor-teacher who has been made able by God's grace to teach sound doctrine consistently.

For anything we believe that is not sound doctrine? Makes us a bad ambassador. An ambassador who misrepresents the thinking of the one who sent him to represent Him. We do not represent Him in our thinking when false doctrine finds access into our hearts.

That is why false doctrine is such a scourge. Yet those who promote such wrong thinking, are always the ones to demand..."Where is the love?"

It must be the love of the Truth before any other love is to be found.


grace and peace...
Speaking of the mind of Christ ;) funny you should mention the book of Ruth. I’m just putting a post together about the Kinsman Redeemer. (Hence the OT source of what redemption in Christ means and why He needed to take on human form.)
To have God reasoning through us can only happen if a believer seeks and prays and finds a good pastor-teacher.A pastor-teacher who has been made able by God's grace to teach sound doctrine consistently.
People who don’t have access to that can never have God reasoning? I don’t think so.
 
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GenemZ

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Speaking of the mind of Christ ;) funny you should mention the book of Ruth. I’m just putting a post together about the Kinsman Redeemer. (Hence the OT source of what redemption in Christ means and why He needed to take on human form.)

People who don’t have access to that can never have God reasoning? I don’t think so.

They will be limited according to their acceptance of knowledge of sound doctrine. According to what God makes available to them in their land.

Many will refuse to endure/tolerate what it takes to continue in learning sound doctrine. Paul made that clear in the following passage.

For the time will come when people will not tolerate/put up
with/ sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they
will gather around them a great number of teachers to say
what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Tim 4:3​

God is fair and just. For He has given us the same Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Not all are willing to endure what is needed to mature in Christ. These many people will find refuge in some denomination that will limit what will be required of them, and set up a human based standard to make them feel right with God.

That's the way it is. For God has given us all the same Holy Spirit, with the same grace to open the eyes of our heart to grasp and understand any sound teaching presented from the Word of God. It does not matter if someone has a lower human IQ, or genius.

God has made us all equal by grace. For a genius who becomes arrogant becomes a spiritual moron because of his pride. And, a person of average intelligence who remains humble will be able to grasp the deepest teachings God provides.

All are seen as equals before God. He is no respecter of persons.
 
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bling

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It says specifically that we have been saved *by*grace, *through* faith.
Not, saved by faith.



But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me
was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them
yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."
1 Cor 15:10​

Paul reveals that Grace is God's enabling power. We are saved BY grace.

Faith comes by hearing the Word. (Romans 10:17) We are not saved BY faith. It says we are saved THROUGH faith... As if faith were an escape tunnel on the battlefield for our souls. Grace gave us the strength (which we incapable of having in out flesh) to take the faith to safety.
I am not suggesting anything “saves” a person other than by God’s grace, but God saves by grace, those who through faith accepts God’s “grace”.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Eph 2:8​


We are saved by God's grace. We are saved through faith.

Its by Grace giving us the power to think clearly when presented the Word (for our faith). In doing so, God's grace insulates our soul from the oppressive sin nature in our flesh that would automatically prevent our ability to choose by punching and shouting down the truth for our soul to consider.

We are not saved by faith. We are saved by grace. Once the grace is applied we then can run to safety through the Word of God (faith) we are presented.

....
Sorry, it does not say grace gives us “faith” the gift of grace is the salvation that is given to those who extend faith. That is what Eph. 2:8 says, which I have not heard a modern Greek scholar refute, but you might know one.

The fact is you do not need to know the Greek to show what the gift is, because the next verse clarifies.

Eph. 2: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If you say: “it” in “it is the gift of God” refers to “faith” than Paul is contrast “faith” being a gift with working to obtain faith, but that would be an oxymoron, since you cannot “work” to obtain faith, but you can work to obtain knowledge of God, which does not produce trust/faith in God.

Even if you did “obtain” faith you could not boast about it, since the lowliest mature adult on earth can extend faith toward a benevolent Creator. How do you “boast” about your faith? If you could earn salvation for yourself there would be something to boast about, so that is what you cannot do.

While Paul and others put down those trying to “work” for salvation and contrast it with saving faith, there is nothing said anywhere about “working” to obtain faith, so Paul would not be warning the Ephesians to “work for faith”, but would say do not try to work for salvation.

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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bling

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And all English translations put it the way I quoted, so I suspect you are mistaken.
There is no issue with the Greek to English translation.
The question is what the "it" is referring to and since the gender of "it" in the Greek does not translate into the English you should go back to the Greek to help determine what the it is referring to.

Sorry, it does not say grace gives us “faith” the gift of grace is the salvation that is given to those who extend faith. That is what Eph. 2:8 says, which I have not heard a modern Greek scholar refute, but you might know one.

The fact is you do not need to know the Greek to show what the gift is, because the next verse clarifies.

Eph. 2: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If you say: “it” in “it is the gift of God” refers to “faith” than Paul is contrast “faith” being a gift with working to obtain faith, but that would be an oxymoron, since you cannot “work” to obtain faith, but you can work to obtain knowledge of God, which does not produce trust/faith in God.

Even if you did “obtain” faith you could not boast about it, since the lowliest mature adult on earth can extend faith toward a benevolent Creator. How do you “boast” about your faith? If you could earn salvation for yourself there would be something to boast about, so that is what you cannot do.

While Paul and others put down those trying to “work” for salvation and contrast it with saving faith, there is nothing said anywhere about “working” to obtain faith, so Paul would not be warning the Ephesians to “work for faith”, but would say do not try to work for salvation.

2 Timothy 3:15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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bling

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Good day, Bling

There is no equivocation in the text as you seem to appeal to...

I will take Paul at his very direct statement.... not all men have Faith.

In Him,

Bill
There ae warning against putting our "faith" have in other gods and we know from our own experience people place faith in things and people including themselves, the question is about taking the God given faith all mature adults and directing that faith toward a benevolent Creator to make it a saving faith.
 
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GenemZ

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The fact is you do not need to know the Greek to show what the gift is, because the next verse clarifies.

Eph. 2: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If you say: “it” in “it is the gift of God” refers to “faith” than Paul is contrast “faith” being a gift with working to obtain faith, but that would be an oxymoron, since you cannot “work” to obtain faith, but you can work to obtain knowledge of God, which does not produce trust/faith in God.

I do not know where you got that from what I said. Working to obtain faith? How? It is given (faith) to us when we hear the Gospel preached in some manner we can relate to.

We are not saved by *works.* Plurality. Works was a system devised by religious men prescribing what one must do to win the approval of God! The Pharisees were works monsters.

But, Jesus said we are saved by one single work. Not a man made system. That one work is? To believe in Him. Not works. One single work of believing.

The Jews were bombarded by the legalistic religious pharisees who were always inventing works to be done as a the means to gain eternal life. The disciples were in a culture that had become works oriented. So, the disciples one day asked Jesus what works he would prescribe.. not expecting the kind of answer He gave them.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jn 6:28-29​

One work saves. Not a system of works. The work to "believe" the Word presented.

In believing what is presented? We make that Word heard and believed to become the faith that is used to save us with!


Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
and the message is heard through the word about Christ."
Rom 10:17​


One work qualifies us in salvation. Only one. No system of works.


Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
 
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GenemZ

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I am not suggesting anything “saves” a person other than by God’s grace, but God saves by grace, those who through faith accepts God’s “grace”.

There is a wee bit of getting the cart before the horse in what you said.

God saves by grace. His power of grace neutralizes what would hinder our soul from considering God. That grace will be maintained by God while God presents what is needed to draw our hearts to Him.

If a person wishes to continue being drawn. He does not harden his heart? Then, ultimately, God will apply His grace power to neutralize our flesh once again. This time to have our soul freed up (by grace) from the flesh, in order to be presented the Gospel.

When our soul freely accepts what the Word of the Gospel says? That accepted Word is to be made the foundation for our faith. For it says.. Faith comes by hearing the Word! (Rom 10:17)

Grace enables us to hear. Then when we are hearing the Gospel? Grace maintains that freedom so that our soul will freely choose to believe.

Saved!
 
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bling

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I do not know where you got that from what I said. Working to obtain faith? How? It is given (faith) to us when we hear the Gospel preached in some manner we can relate to.
There is nothing in scripture especial as I pointed out in my post concerning Eph. 2:8-9, that only some people are “gifted” some special faith (saving faith) when we hear the gospel being preached. Like the prodigal son we are brought to our senses by our own bad choices, we then can accept the good news of God’s Love presented to us at some time in our lives or in the future or we can reject God’s Love which is charity.

What I was showing with my post 111 is the fact The specific “gift from God” being addressed is not “faith”, but is the salvation, since Paul goes on in verse 9 to warn that people cannot work for the gift to be able to boast for obtaining the gift, so the gift cannot be faith since “working for faith” would be an oxymoron not needing a warning.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Jn 6:28-29​
It is not that we do “one” work because Jesus called believe a work and really the only thing we can bring to the table. No one being addressed at that time would define “work” to include believing (faith).

Believing is not something a person can do worthy of anything.

Spiritually: believing is the only thing you can “do”, but not work in the physical realm.
 
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