Did Jesus inherit original sin from Mary?

FenderTL5 · Dec 30, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Can you kindly give more detail on the mistranslation of Matt 5:12 referencing the Greek?

Romans, not Matthew.

His misinterpretation of Romans 5:12; in Latin the Greek idiom eph ho which means because of was translated as in whom.
Saying that all have sinned in Adam is quite different than saying that all sinned because of him. Augustine believed and taught that all humanity has sinned in Adam.
The result is that guilt replaces death as the ancestral inheritance (Augustine, 1956b) Therefore the term original sin conveys the belief that Adam and Eve's sin is the first and universal transgression in which all humanity participates.
(copy paste from here/link)

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

misput said:
For God who shows no partiality and is the same yesterday, today and forever, your beliefs are riddled with contradiction. Sure, you may suffer for or because of your fathers sin but you are not condemned for it. If you are condemned it will be for your own sin.

This is under the OT covenant...you explain the passages.
All who are not saved by faith in Christ remain under the LAW.

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You don't think death constitutes condemnation?[/QUOTE
What does condemnation mean to you...your definition please?

Carl Emerson · Dec 30, 2019

Dave L said:
Neither. He was sinless. God imputed Adam's sin to us. Then He Imputed our sins to Christ. And then Imputed Christ's righteousness to us.

So Jesus didnt take Adam's sin?

Carl Emerson · Dec 30, 2019

Surprising to me that this thread has exposed quite fundamental differences in basic theology. However as we have said the bible is thin on this issue.

Augustine's misinterpretation of Romans 5:12 is critical. Thanks FenderTL5 for the detail.

Amazing how such a mistake can take hold in the Church for so long.

However we all have mortality and imperfection since Adam and are born with this condition.

Athanasias · Dec 30, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
It's less crazy than some of the opinions already mentioned here.

LOL I hope you would agree since your Catholic

concretecamper · Dec 30, 2019

FenderTL5 said:
Romans, not Matthew.

His misinterpretation of Romans 5:12; in Latin the Greek idiom eph ho which means because of was translated as in whom.
Saying that all have sinned in Adam is quite different than saying that all sinned because of him. Augustine believed and taught that all humanity has sinned in Adam.
The result is that guilt replaces death as the ancestral inheritance (Augustine, 1956b) Therefore the term original sin conveys the belief that Adam and Eve's sin is the first and universal transgression in which all humanity participates.
(copy paste from here/link)

I for one am surprised that an Orthodox website would post an article that takes issue with the Catholic Church's teaching on Original Sin. What's next, the Holy Spirit :holy:

LiquidCat · Dec 30, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Some claim that original sin passes down through the male line only.

When He bore our sins on the cross did this include original sin or did He already have it?

Holy Spirit on the male side.

Humanity on the female side.

Where does original sin come into the equation?

I think about it like this , soul comes from father to son while woman provides the "bodysuit" for the soul.
Yes Jesus fleshly body had to die and be changed into incorruptible body ( he also gained new abilities with it like appearing/disappearing/walking through doors ect).

So yea Jesus had this fleshly corrupted body of us through Mary but had to be Virgin Birth because he himself couldn't be corrupted that's why Impregnation by Holy Ghost with the seed of Father

Jesus did not Inherit oryginal sin since his Father wasn't Adam but ye he had corrupted body.

misput · Dec 30, 2019

throughfireytrial said:
This is under the OT covenant...you explain passages.

Your doctrine is so contradictory I don't know where to start, so I will not.

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Can you kindly give more detail on the mistranslation of Matt 5:12 referencing the Greek?

Unfortunately, I am not a Greek scholar and I can only pass on what I read. Let me see if I can find a link:

Perhaps this will help:

Augustine's mistake about original sin - Gentle Wisdom

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

misput said:
Your doctrine is so contradictory I don't know where to start, so I will not.

You don't seem to realize there is an Old AND a New Testament and that this results in an apparent contradiction...in your eyes only; I HOPE! Well, it is not a contradiction with the passage, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. God sent a son and it changed the harshness of the LAW to mercy and forgiveness through faith in Christ Jesus and that you say is a contradiction! Some contradiction...Christianity 101! I quoted you only passages and if you have a problem with them you should easily be able to take up the discussion. You were unaware of the very basic OT statement which I quoted saying God punishes the sins of the father to the children. It is you who have a dim view and understanding of the Scriptures. While I do not profess to never err you insult me by saying my understanding is contradictory. It is Scripture that you have a quarrel with.

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
No, since it has been the teaching of the true Christian Church from the beginning, and therefore guaranteed true by God Himself, that Mary was born free of original sin.

The true Christian Church never taught this. You have listened to false teachers who have taught you false history.

Tell you what - here's a little challenge for you. Find me any Early and Ante-Nicene Father who speaks of Original Sin and writes about it. No, it doesn't count if the Father says that Mary is Immaculate because we Orthodox believe that also. We just don't believe She had to be Immaculately Concieved to achieve this.

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

throughfireytrial said:
This is under the OT covenant...you explain the passages.
All who are not saved by faith in Christ remain under the LAW.

Curious. Where does it say that?

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
So Jesus didnt take Adam's sin?

No. He did not. Jesus conquered death by His own death. I understand how confusing this may be to you as you most likely have a very Western understanding and approach to this issue - i.e., penal substitution, or legal (forensic) justification.

We do not look at Christ's death on the Cross in that manner.

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

misput said:
For God who shows no partiality and is the same yesterday, today and forever, your beliefs are riddled with contradiction. Sure, you may suffer for or because of your fathers sin but you are not condemned for it. If you are condemned it will be for your own sin.

You have very poor insight and understanding of basic Scripture with this response. Many beginners claim that Scripture is contradictory when it is actually the reader who lacks spiritual wisdom at that point.

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

concretecamper said:
I for one am surprised that an Orthodox website would post an article that takes issue with the Catholic Church's teaching on Original Sin. What's next, the Holy Spirit

Oh, you shouldn't be surprised at all. Apparently you are unaware of just how much the East rejects from Western ideas as found in the Roman Catholic Church. Just a short list, FYI:

1. Immaculate Conception. No such thing. Creates massive soteriological, anthropological, and theological problems.

2. Purgatory. Ditto. No such thing.

3. Papal Supremacy. Started in the 11th Century with the Papal Reformation.

4. Filioque Clause to the Creed. Did you know that not one, but TWO, ecumenical councils anathematized anyone who would add to or subtract from the Creed?

5. Unleavened (dead) bread in the Eucharist. This was a major dispute in the 11th century which added fuel to the fire of the schism.

6. Withholding the Eucharist from infant children. Never done until Rome decided to do it. Why would you withhold the source of eternal life (John 6) from your infant children?

7. Penal Substitution Atonement Theory. Just who did Jesus "pay off" by His death, which is what this theory teaches?

Those are just a few. Rome is going to have to back up and punt before there can be reunion.

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

Light of the East said:
Curious. Where does it say that?

Matthew 5:17-20 and those who are saved escape the LAW.
Galatians 4

Light of the East · Dec 30, 2019

throughfireytrial said:
Matthew 5:17-20 and those who are saved escape the LAW.
Galatians 4

Thank you, but I honestly do not see that in Matthew 5. Could it be that you are reading into the text?

As for Galatians 4, what is the book of Galatians about? It is about Paul's ongoing conflict with the Jews, who thought that one needed to be under the Law to be a Christian, that is, that one must submit to circumcision before converting to The Way. Paul's intent in Galatians was to show that the Law does not save, and those who are trusting in it are under its condemnation.

I don't think you can put what Paul wrote in Galatians on Gentiles and pagans who didn't even know what the Law was. Paul was striving to make Jews, and the Christians who were being upset by the "Party of the Circumcision" to understand the Law cannot save.

throughfiierytrial · Dec 30, 2019

Light of the East said:
Thank you, but I honestly do not see that in Matthew 5. Could it be that you are reading into the text?

As for Galatians 4, what is the book of Galatians about? It is about Paul's ongoing conflict with the Jews, who thought that one needed to be under the Law to be a Christian, that is, that one must submit to circumcision before converting to The Way. Paul's intent in Galatians was to show that the Law does not save, and those who are trusting in it are under its condemnation.

I don't think you can put what Paul wrote in Galatians on Gentiles and pagans who didn't even know what the Law was. Paul was striving to make Jews, and the Christians who were being upset by the "Party of the Circumcision" to understand the Law cannot save.

Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles. He explains to them.
Matthew 5 tells us the LAW will never disappear...even to the end of the world; does it not? The LAW then governs to the end. We who believe are declared righteous by faith in Christ (Romans) and our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees (as to which Matthew 5 refers).

Gregory Thompson · Dec 30, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Some claim that original sin passes down through the male line only.

When He bore our sins on the cross did this include original sin or did He already have it?

Holy Spirit on the male side.

Humanity on the female side.

Where does original sin come into the equation?

So when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she became pregnant with Jesus, what part of that transmitted sin?

Did Jesus inherit original sin from Mary?

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