The ability of God - Does God always get His will done?

The ability of God to save man is exclusively God's. Man can not choose God. God chooses man.

Revealing the links between John 17:20, John 15:16, and John 15:13-15 post

Free-willians false claim that God is responsible sin in sinners (what some call cognitive dissonance) post in this thread

Neiher the IF/THEN logic conditional contruct nor a command conveys ability post along with the how the account of Cain and Abel relates with the IF/THEN logic post

contrasting the old nature and the new nature post

Free-willians are outside of saving grace for they cannot please God (Romans 8:8) as well as they cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) unless God opens their eyes post

the error of Armenians/Free-willians exposed post

The accurate grammatical structure of Revelation 13:8 analyzed post, and do not forget the parallel in Revelation 17:8!

the meaning of "receive" post with application in Acts 2:38-39 and the subsequent we believers receive the Holy Spirit post

the "whoever believes" in John 3:16 is constrained by "believe" definition in John 6:29 and the "world" in John 17:9 has implications for "world" in John 3:16 post

"choose whom you will serve" in Joshua 24:15 does not indicate ability to serve God post

repentance is of/by/from God in man with accurate BIBLICAL CITATIONS post

"free will" does not occur in the New Testament except in Philemon 1:14 as an illusory metaphor post

The "you" occurrances in John 15:16 is the same as "you" occurrances in John 15:13-15 and John 15:16 and John 14:16-17 which are for all us believers in all time post. This is Love!

renniks said:

BTW, the fact that you are arguing with me about all this proves you believe in free will. It's ok, every one does. You probably look both ways when you cross the street too.

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I believe God can change you heart despite your rebellion against the Word of God speaking "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

By the way, it is written "YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST" (Matthew 4:7).

Kermos said:

By the way, your example of your child proves the point that a command does not convey ability.

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Only if you believe God is a sadistic cruel deity who commands things that are impossible.

Kermos said:

I believe God can change you heart despite your rebellion against the Word of God speaking "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

By the way, it is written "YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST" (Matthew 4:7).

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You just take random verses and stick them together. Again, the fact that you are bothering to argue proves you believe I can choose to believe differently. And you never answered my question. Are 90 percent of Christians actually damned because they believe in free will?

I'm not in rebellion against God. And if I was, in your theology, it would be because God decreed my rebellion. Who are you to fight against God's decree?

renniks said:

Only if you believe God is a sadistic cruel deity who commands things that are impossible.

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Lord Jesus tells you exactly what is impossible when He responded to the disciples inquiry of "who can be saved?" for King Jesus says "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:25-26). MEN CAN DO NOTHING TO BE SAVED NOT EVEN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH MEN. GOD SAVES MEN, AND GOD DOES IT ALL.

Despite your accusation about GRAMMAR, a command does not convey ability. It's not sadistic, it's a fact. That's why Paul didn't write that he'd just choose to stop coveting, instead Paul indicates that he became aware of his sinfulness. Here is that which Paul wrote:

"I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." (Romans 7:7).

"sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind" (Romans 7:8).

"where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).

"the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation" (Romans 1:16).

"How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

Behold, the Word of God is conveyed via communication AND the gospel, the good news, the Word of God is the power of God for salvation!

Notice, renniks, it's not the man's choice - choice is not there nor is it implied. In the passages it is the POWER OF GOD. Look at "grace did much more abound". It is about God's grace. Grace is unearned love.

God rescues men. Confused people make assertions about sadistic cruel deity and spiritual rape.

Free-willians think they rescue themselves, for example, them pivoting on their "choice to believe" in defiance of Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

By the way, God is mercifully loving to save any of the rebellious persons!

renniks said:

You just take random verses and stick them together. Again, the fact that you are bothering to argue proves you believe I can choose to believe differently. And you never answered my question. Are 90 percent of Christians actually damned because they believe in free will?

I'm not in rebellion against God. And if I was, in your theology, it would be because God decreed my rebellion. Who are you to fight against God's decree?

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That "random verses" assertion demonstrates your inability to produce scripture for "free will" and/or "choose to believe". It appears the Word of God is not enough for you because I quote the Word of God!

No, you cannot choose God for God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so I tell the gospel which includes John 15:16 because the gospel is the power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16).

God decreed "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 19:20).

God has me in accord with God's decree.

This revealing the links between John 17:20, John 15:16, and John 15:13-15 post addresses your question. As far as I'm concerned your question is done.

I believe God can change you heart despite your rebellion against the Word of God speaking "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Kermos said:

Lord Jesus tells you exactly what is impossible when He responded to the disciples inquiry of "who can be saved?" for King Jesus says "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:25-26). MEN CAN DO NOTHING TO BE SAVED NOT EVEN CHOOSE TO BELIEVE BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH MEN. GOD SAVES MEN, AND GOD DOES IT ALL.

Despite your accusation about GRAMMAR, a command does not convey ability. It's not sadistic, it's a fact. That's why Paul didn't write that he'd just choose to stop coveting, instead Paul indicates that he became aware of his sinfulness. Here is that which Paul wrote:

"I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." (Romans 7:7).

"sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind" (Romans 7:8).

"where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).

"the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation" (Romans 1:16).

"How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

Behold, the Word of God is conveyed via communication AND the gospel, the good news, the Word of God is the power of God for salvation!

Notice, renniks, it's not the man's choice - choice is not there nor is it implied. In the passages it is the POWER OF GOD. Look at "grace did much more abound". It is about God's grace. Grace is unearned love.

God rescues men. Confused people make assertions about sadistic cruel deity and spiritual rape.

Free-willians think they rescue themselves, for example, them pivoting on their "choice to believe" in defiance of Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

By the way, God is mercifully loving to save any of the rebellious persons!

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None of the verses you quote deny men's choices are real. Of course it is " with God" that salvation is possible. But God certainly does not force salvation on any one.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

renniks said:

None of the verses you quote deny men's choices are real. Of course it is " with God" that salvation is possible. But God certainly does not force salvation on any one.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

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Renniks, your first paragraph is dead wrong because of a minimum of these two quotes:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Jesus Christ, recorded in John 15:16).

"With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Jesus Christ, recorded Matthew 19:25-26, His response to the disciples inquiry of "who can be saved?").

Now, to your citation, here is Paul's writing from Romans 10:8-10 :

"what does it say? THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART' - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation"

Furthermore, Lord Jesus says "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" (Matthew 7:22-23).

Notice, some will say "Lord, Lord" and then face punishment.

Thers is a verse just a few verses prior to your citation that speaks to Free-willian theology.

Paul wrote "the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down)" (Romans 10:6).

Free-willians think they can bring Christ down into their hearts, for Free-willians say things like "you need to open the door of your heart to Christ".

First, we are told THE WORD IS IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART. There is belief/faith, and Lord Jesus defined belief/faith with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Notice "choose to believe" is absent from the passage. Paul wrote that faith/belief is the gift of God not of men (Ephesians 2:8-10), so Paul, the writer of Romans 10:8-10 and Ephesians 2:8-10 is in concord with Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), Who defines the work of God as you believe in Jesus Whom the Father has sent (John 6:29)!

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

renniks said:

Yes, and it is also real history. God really did tell Cain what he must do. Let's say I tell my child, as a baby, that he must clean his room, although he's incapable of doing so. What kind of father would I be? God is a good father, not a sadistic one. He doesn't tell us we must do something he will not enable us to do.

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A BIBLICAL DECLARATION OF ABILITY AND INABILITY - CAPABILITY EXAMINED

Lord Jesus declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The first clause decisively declares that men cannot choose Jesus; in other words, men do not have the ability to accept Jesus.

The second clause absolutely declares that God chooses men, and this unto salvation as well for Jesus also said "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19); in other words, God has the exclusive ability to accept men.

COMMANDS EXPOSE GOOD AND EVIL - NOT CAPABILITY

A hypothetical example, on Monday evening you take your lovely wife a hot bowl of delicious oatmeal while she's sitting on the couch, and she places the bowl on a pillow on her lap. Then your talking and toddling son sees the bowl of delicous oatmeal, and he wants some, so he shoots across the floor to the couch, and he excitedly grabs the rim of the hot bowl letting out a shrieking scream of pain from the hot bowl.

After applying soothing cream to the wound, both you and your wife explain the difference between hot and cold. You explain that hot can cause burns and pain. "Do not touch hot things" you command your son.

You continue by declaring "Your mommy and I can work around hot things to prepare and serve food, but you cannot, my love". The sobbing stops, and you all eat your dinner.

On Tuesday morning, you have the iron skillet on the stove, the gas fire keeping the iron skillet sizzling hot for a family pancake breakfast. The top of the stove HOT too, so you are sensitive to your son's current absence from the kitchen.

Your son toddles into the kitchen. You say "honey, the stove is hot, hotter than the bowl of oatmeal last night. If you touch the stove, then you'll get burned again. If you stay over there, then you'll be just fine." Then you smell that the pancake is about to burn unless you flip it, so you scrape the pancake, raise it, flip it, and you watch it drop - but as it drops, you see your precious son's hand grasp the extremely hot stove iron flame cover. In a flash, you dunk your excruciatingly pained and screaming child's hand in a glass of cold water, add ice, turn off the stove, examine the wound through the glass, and ...

The morals of the story:

1) Monday night's command did not convey ability. The command expressed safe action - or said another way safe inaction.

2) Monday night's declaration conveyed capabilities being that you could work around hot items while your son could not work around hot items. It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing.

3) Tuesday morning's IF/THEN logic conditionals did not convey ability. Each conditional expressed the results of actions.

4) You cared deeply enough to help.

5) Your son was driven by his desires, and he disregarded your instruction; in other words, his lusts were manifest by his action.

6) Your son's nature was to defy you despite (1) the command, (2) the declaration, and (3) the conditionals; in other words, the fruit of his nature were visible.

7) Your son was in rebellion against you.

Point 2 is a parallel - a remote shadow at best, to when the Lord Jesus' says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, also John 15:13-15 about love and friends). It is crucial to discern the exclusive nature of the declarative; one party can do something while the other party cannot do the same thing; in other words, men cannot choose God while God chooses men.

Point 4 is analagous, a shadow at best, to how the Father in heaven causes the "sun to rise on [the] evil and [the] good, and sends rain on [the] righteous and [the] unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

Points 5 and 6 are analagous to the contrasting the old nature and the new nature post.

The example is concluded.

Commands do not convey ability; rather, commands expose the desires of the person, more specifically the nature of the person.

Kermos said:

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

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This was spoken to the disciples, and in the context of producing fruit. It's not even about salvation.

Kermos said:

Paul wrote "the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down)" (Romans 10:6).

Free-willians think they can bring Christ down into their hearts, for Free-willians say things like "you need to open the door of your heart to Christ".

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Total misinterpretation. Paul repudiates the idea that the Christian is compelled to join God there in literal bodily presence. A far easier and simpler thing is the faith of the gospel. All the Christian has to do is to listen to it when it is preached, and then to confess his own adhesion to it.

The Jews, it would seem, thought it not reasonable to believe on Jesus as the Christ, unless he was brought from heaven in a visible manner, to take possession of his kingdom:” which some think was the sign from heaven which they expected.

Thanks for a verse that agrees with my point. We must exercise faith in God for salvation. This requires us to be able to make free choices.

renniks said:

This was spoken to the disciples, and in the context of producing fruit. It's not even about salvation.

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We need to focus on where Lord Jesus says "through their word" within the phrase "those also who believe in Me through their word" within the sentence "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

This statement of Jesus's occurs during the supper covered in John chapters 13 - 17 is part of JOHN'S WORD.

During the same supper covered in John chapters 13 - 17, Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Since Lord Jesus says "those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20) and "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) during the same supper, this results in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) applying to all disciples of Jesus in all time.

You wrote "It's not even about salvation", but you are in error.

Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), which is part of the passage connected to "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) declaration by Jesus, Lord and God, makes the choosing by Jesus include salvation in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

As a result, you are in rebellion against the Word of God Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

renniks said:

Total misinterpretation. Paul repudiates the idea that the Christian is compelled to join God there in literal bodily presence. A far easier and simpler thing is the faith of the gospel. All the Christian has to do is to listen to it when it is preached, and then to confess his own adhesion to it.

The Jews, it would seem, thought it not reasonable to believe on Jesus as the Christ, unless he was brought from heaven in a visible manner, to take possession of his kingdom:” which some think was the sign from heaven which they expected.

Thanks for a verse that agrees with my point. We must exercise faith in God for salvation. This requires us to be able to make free choices.

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You wrote "join God there in literal bodily presence" (your word "there" indicates heaven) but Paul wrote "that is, to bring Christ down" (Romans 10:6, Paul's word "down" indicates earth); therefore, you wrote the opposite of that which Paul wrote. Your interpretation is wrong.

You had written "None of the verses you quote deny men's choices are real", but you just snipped out the other verses that proved your statement wrong. Let me remind you. Here is a minimum of these two quotes:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Jesus Christ, recorded in John 15:16).

"With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Jesus Christ, recorded Matthew 19:25-26, His response to the disciples inquiry of "who can be saved?").

That's twice, yes 2 times, in this recent thread that you have contradicted scripture. Here are both of your opposition points to scripture:

1) You written words are "join God there in literal bodily presence" which are opposite to Paul's writing "that is, to bring Christ down" (Romans 10:6).

2) You written words are "This requires us to be able to make free choices" which are opposite to Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:19).

It appears the Word of God is not enough for you.

Kermos said:

Since Lord Jesus says "those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20) and "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) during the same supper, this results in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) applying to all disciples of Jesus in all time.

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Um, no, lol. If I tell you I chose you then go on to talk about others who are not there, you can't apply what I said earlier to you to them. That's ridiculous.

renniks said:

Um, no, lol. If I tell you I chose you then go on to talk about others who are not there, you can't apply what I said earlier to you to them. That's ridiculous.

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Then, according to your logic, you are no friend of Jesus because He says:

"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. This I command you, that you love one another. If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before [it hated] you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you."
(John 15:13-19)

Friends of Jesus identified by the Lord are "you" in the passage, and chosen by God people are "you" in the passage, and chose out of the world by God people are "you" in the passage.

You deny the last two clauses about God choosing people apply to you, renniks, so neither does the first clause about being a friend of Jesus.

You laugh at the Apostle John's message.

You laugh at the Word of God Who speaks of eternal matters with elegance and precision!

You try to limit eternal Truth by the limits of temporal existence; in other words, you cry out "physical context" over "spiritual context and message".

In your mind, you have broken the gospel. A natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The Apostle John is clear. John's message/words/gospel clearly convey God alone saves man, and man does no work (no choice by man).

The Apostle Paul is clear. Paul clearly conveys God alone saves man, and man does no work including no choice by man (Ephesians 2:8-10).

The Lord Jesus is clear. The Word of God, Jesus, clearly conveys He alone saves man, and man does no work to be saved including no choice by man.

The Apostle John recorded the Word of God speaking in John's good message, and there is eternal treasure in the Word of God.

May God grant you wisdom.

Kermos said:

"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you

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Lol, no because he gives the condition for being his friend right here. You are lumping verses together that don't fit together.

And, btw, being his disciple is also conditional on remaining in him, as also shown in John 15:4

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other."

This is the part you keep harping on, only you only quote a tiny portion of it. What were the chosen for? To bear fruit, not for salvation. We have already seen early on in John 15 that salvation and bearing fruit is conditional on remaining in Christ.

Now, you want to jump forward all the way to Chapter 17 and claim that the verse you picked out is applied to all believers( who are actually the disciples fruit) But what does Christ pray for us? That we will remain in unity and in Christ. It isn't some deterministic formula that denies free will exists. He prays for us precisely because we can opt out of salvation and discipleship and being his friend if we so choose.

renniks said:

Lol, no because he gives the condition for being his friend right here. You are lumping verses together that don't fit together.

And, btw, being his disciple is also conditional on remaining in him, as also shown in John 15:4

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other."

This is the part you keep harping on, only you only quote a tiny portion of it. What were the chosen for? To bear fruit, not for salvation. We have already seen early on in John 15 that salvation and bearing fruit is conditional on remaining in Christ.

Now, you want to jump forward all the way to Chapter 17 and claim that the verse you picked out is applied to all believers( who are actually the disciples fruit) But what does Christ pray for us? That we will remain in unity and in Christ. It isn't some deterministic formula that denies free will exists. He prays for us precisely because we can opt out of salvation and discipleship and being his friend if we so choose.

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You cannot do what is pleasing to God (Romans 8:8) such as obey God's commands (John 6:37, Matthew 11:28) unless God chooses you (John 15:16).

Lord Jesus' words of "if you do what I command you" is a conditional logic statement, yet the logic statement does not convey ability.*

Jesus expresses ability in with "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me".

Jesus commands "Come to Me" (Matthew 11:28).

Salvation is contingent on the Father giving people to the Son.

You bring up John 15:4, but Jesus said "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5); THEREFORE FRUIT IS A FUNCTION OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN PERSONS.

Thus, renniks, the fruit mentioned in all of John chapter 15 is entirely dependent on the Holy Spirit in persons.

Fruit is the evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Fruit is the evidence of salvation wrought by God alone.

Salvation is brought about by Jesus, Who is God, for He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

You laugh at the Apostle John's message.

You laugh at the Word of God Who speaks of eternal matters with elegance and precision!

You persist in trying to limit eternal Truth by the limits of temporal existence; in other words, you cry out "physical context" over "spiritual context and message".

In your mind, you have broken the gospel. A natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Corinthians 2:14).

May God grant you wisdom.

* Neiher the IF/THEN logic conditional contruct nor a command conveys ability (a post in this thread). How the account of Cain and Abel relates with the IF/THEN logic (a post in this thread). A BIBLICAL DECLARATION OF ABILITY AND INABILITY - CAPABILITY EXAMINED with COMMANDS EXPOSE GOOD AND EVIL - NOT CAPABILITY (a post in this thread)

Kermos said:

Lord Jesus' words of "if you do what I command you" is a conditional logic statement, yet the logic statement does not convey ability.*

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Of course it does.

Kermos said:

You laugh at the Apostle John's message.

You laugh at the Word of God Who speaks of eternal matters with elegance and precision!

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No, I laugh at the bizarre way you interpret scripture. But probably should cry instead of laughing. It's really sad.

renniks said:

Of course it does.

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Only by the intellectualization of a human mind not grounded in proper linguistics nor spiritual matters.

You cannot do what is pleasing to God (Romans 8:8) such as obey God's commands (John 6:37, Matthew 11:28) unless God chooses you (John 15:16).

Lord Jesus' words of "if you do what I command you" is a conditional logic statement, yet the logic statement does not convey ability.

Jesus expresses ability in with "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me".

Jesus commands "Come to Me" (Matthew 11:28).

Salvation is contingent on the Father giving people to the Son.

Fruit is the evidence of salvation wrought by God alone.

Salvation is brought about by Jesus, Who is God, for He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

You laugh at the Apostle John's message.

You laugh at the Word of God Who speaks of eternal matters with elegance and precision!

You persist in trying to limit eternal Truth by the limits of temporal existence; in other words, you cry out "physical context" over "spiritual context and message".

In your mind, you have broken the gospel. A natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised (1 Corinthians 2:14).

May God grant you wisdom.