The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

redleghunter said:
What I meant was keep going in John 15.

I can post the passage for the fifth time.

John 15: NASB

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

The problem is reading Calvinism into these verses when that is not what it is specifically saying. The very next verse (verse 17) is a command that we are to love one another. Jesus would not bother to give His people a command to love one another if we were forced against our will to love one another. Jesus says that I call you friends. In John 15:14 says you are my friends if you keep my commandments. Also, why warn about how the branches can be cut off if such a thing was not possible? The branches are grafted into Christ and thus they are not false branches but they grow and abide by the trunk of the tree (Who is Jesus). The fact that we are told to continue in his goodness otherwise we can be cut off like the Jews (Romans 11:21-22) is proof that believers can fall away. The Jews were a warning to us.

So what could the "You did not choose me, but I chose you" mean?
It means God elects or chooses us based on His foreknowledge.

"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." (1 Peter 1:1-2).

Also, the Jews were elect or chosen by GOD to be His nation, but they did not always follow God and thus, as a result at those times, their heart was not right with GOD. But in the End Times, Israel (as a nation) will come around and recognize their Messiah. But the point here is that even an "elect" nation does not mean that they cannot fall away into sin and or fall out of God's good ways and serve other gods and or false religion.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

Gr8Grace said:
I have not seen anything from you that you know how to produce DIVINE works.

How are you filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit?<<<< If you don't know how to do this it is wood,hay and stubble or ASHES in the end......Used menstrual rags.

Well, I am pretty sure you are not GOD to know all my heart, life, actions, and thoughts to judge whether I am fruitful for the Lord or not. Besides, even if I am not living up to your expectations, my life is not the standard by which to live by, friend. The Bible is the standard of truth and righteous living regardless of any one person's life. So it's not about me (Whether I live for the Lord or not), but it's about what the Bible says for all people.

Jesus says that He (the Son of Man) will send forth his angels and they will gather anything out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those things that make others to sin), and that work iniquity (lawlessness), and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the lake of fire) (See: Matthew 13:41-42).

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42).

How do you explain the above passage? Who are those in the Kingdom who are sinning that are being cast into the furnace of fire?

Jesus says that when He returns, will he find faith on the Earth?
(See: Luke 18:8).

Jesus says narrow is the way and FEW be there that find it
(See: Matthew 7:13-14).

Does it sound like the way of salvation that you present is of the FEW or do you think it is like every church out there? I can say with confidence that most churches teach that you can sin and still be saved (on some level) by having a belief alone on Jesus. Yet, Jesus taught us righteous instruction on the Sermon on the Mount with warnings on how sin can destroy our soul after we die (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15).

As for your loose quote of Isaiah 64:6:
You are taking that verse out of context.
Let's read the verse:

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." (Isaiah 64:6).

Now, I can imagine this verse sounds all warm and cozy for you if you were to just quote this verse all by itself out of it's context, but that is not what you think it is saying based on what the rest of the chapter says. Let's read some context to see what it is saying.

Verse 5:

"You meet and spare him who joyfully works righteousness (uprightness and justice), [earnestly] remembering You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned; we have long continued in our sins [prolonging Your anger]. And shall we be saved?" (Isaiah 64:5) (AMPC).

Verse 7:

"There is no one who calls on Your name, Who awakens and causes himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have handed us over to the [consuming and destructive] power of our wickedness [our sin, our injustice, our wrongdoing]." (Isaiah 64:7) (AMP).

As we can see according to the context, it was not because the Israelites were doing good that God was rejecting them, but it was because they had sinned and did things their own way. They needed to come back to God and get their hearts right with Him by seeking His forgiveness and by obeying God again. They were doing things their own way that they thought was righteous and good, and they were not submitting to the word of the Lord and His righteous instruction.

You said:
Do you understand ABIDING in eternal life? Clearly not. If you understood it, you wouldn't be advocating it ends. Eternal life is just that.......NEVER ending.

Only Christ alone possesses immortality or eternal life (1 Timothy 6:16).
This means eternal life is not a super power given to us, or a magical wish given to us like from a genie. This means we have to abide in Christ in order to have eternal life because Jesus is the source of that life. 1 John 5:12 says that he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life.

So how can we have an assurance that we are abiding in Christ or that we know Him? 1 John 2:3 says that we can have an assurance in knowing Him if we find that we are keeping His commandments. 1 John 2:4 says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth is not in them (Note: Jesus is the Truth - John 14:6; So the "Truth" that would not be in them if they disobey His commands would be Jesus Himself).

You said:
Do you understand it is murdering and hating to teach loss of salvation(Sending them to the Lake of Fire forever and ever) to your brothers?

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." (Proverbs 27:6).

You said:
Loss of salvation is clearly murdering and hating brothers that "don't measure up."

The Bible does not cater to how we wish things to be.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:
(Hover your mouse over the verses to check them out):

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)

Your pinnacle doctrine seems to be loss of salvation(Sending brothers to the eternal lake of fire)........I see no divine good in that. Just a bunch of self righteous HUMAN good.....which is EVIL or used menstrual rags.

Proverbs 16:25.

You said:
If George believed, and killed my family........The Lord Jesus Christ said he has eternal life and will never perish. But from Gods word, I can deduce George was disciplined and probably has very little reward IN His Kingdom.

Hard stuff for a worker for. I know.

Wow. All I can say is wow. You really believe that? Try reading Isaiah 5:20 again in prayer and ask God what it is really saying. For if you truly believe that a believer who does evil and they have no remorse for what they do is saved, this will be the last conversation we are going to have. If I cannot show you how it is morally wrong for a person who commits murder and then takes his own life is not the kind of believer who is fit for God's good kingdom, then we are done talking. Only the Lord can show you what is good and morally right.

Good day to you, sir.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

@BNR32FAN

Good morning, brother.

*Lifts coffee mug that says "God is good."*

Thank you for the "like."
Always a pleasure to have you around.

May God bless you, dear brother.
May you always be strong in the power of the Lord's might or strength.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

~J.

BNR32FAN · Dec 28, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
@BNR32FAN

Good morning, brother.

*Lifts coffee mug that says "God is good."*

Thank you for the "like."
Always a pleasure to have you around.

May God bless you, dear brother.
May you always be strong in the power of the Lord's might or strength.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

~J.

Thanks brother, I took a few days off from CF. I see you met FaithGrace2 and Gr8Grace. I had to put FG2 on ignore a long time ago. Our debates get too heated and we become a stumbling block for one another. I saw him mention in a post that how I realized he was commenting in your discussion. I recently had to put skidder on ignore as well for the same reason. I think at some point there’s just no point in continuing to argue with people who intentionally close their eyes to the scriptures that refute their theology. When they start to make will accusations and lies about you it just time to move on. At least that how I see it. You can beat a dead horse all you want and it still isn’t going to move. All we can do is provide evidence and sound explanation and if they reject it that’s fine. There’s not much we can do about that, but when they resort to lies and deception it becomes a stumbling block for them and only makes things worse. If we try to push someone towards Christ too hard and they resist, we could end up causing them to push themselves away from Him even harder by their natural defensive opposition. Sometimes it’s better to just plant a few seeds and walk away. Everyone will be judged according to their desire to serve God not their understanding of scripture or their theology. The person seeking to please God will do the things that please Him regardless if they believe in faith alone, eternal security, Calvinism, universalism, or conditional salvation. All of these theologies will be irrelevant to their salvation. What matters is where our heart is. Do we live to serve Him or do we live to make excuses for our desire to willfully live in sin? That’s what it’s going to come down to in the end. I think all we can really do is help those who are truly seeking Him but do not know Him yet or may not have a good understanding of His word. I hope you had a very blessed Christmas.

FreeGrace2 · Dec 28, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
Exactly. And who were part of the vine, not unrelated branches. Therefore by definition started out in him.

I wasn't arguing otherwise about the passage referring to believers.

FreeGrace2 · Dec 28, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
If you believe that Jesus was somehow exempt of the normal frailties of man, then you are definitely believing heresy.

Well, good news for you. I have never believed that. Why would you think I believed that? Jesus was temptable like every human being.

He had to suffer every temptation that any man has had to suffer. If that isn't the case, then he did not come in the flesh.

Correct. So why was your assessment of my view so off? What did you misunderstand?

FreeGrace2 · Dec 28, 2019

To Biblehighlighter from BNR32FAN:

BNR32FAN said:
Thanks brother, I took a few days off from CF. I see you met FaithGrace2 and Gr8Grace. I had to put FG2 on ignore a long time ago. Our debates get too heated and we become a stumbling block for one another.

BNR32FAN continues to mistrue and misunderstand things. He has never been a stumbling block to me. Far from it. As for our "debates", I never take it personally from anyone who disagrees with me. My sole goal is to defend truth.

I saw him mention in a post that how I realized he was commenting in your discussion. I recently had to put skidder on ignore as well for the same reason. I think at some point there’s just no point in continuing to argue with people who intentionally close their eyes to the scriptures that refute their theology.

What a joke! BNR32FAN puts anyone he can't refute on ignroe, rather than actually dealing with the issues.

When they start to make will accusations and lies about you it just time to move on.

Maybe you can ask him about these so-called "lies" that he has accused me of.

Dan1988 · Dec 28, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7) (NKJV).

Condition of Salvation: If we walk in the light as He is in the light.

_____________________________________________________________
“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

Condition of Salvation: If we hold from the beginning our confidence stedfast unto the end.

____________________________________________________________

21 "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister." (Colossians 1:21-23) (NKJV).

Condition of Salvation: If indeed you continue in the faith (verse 23).

The Bible teaches that faith is a gift from God, we can't manufacture it within ourselves. So we have to keep praying for it and thanking the Lord for giving it to us.

I'm sure nobody would be saved if we relied on our ability to remain faithful. So from my understanding of the scriptures, the work of salvation is of the Lord from start to finish. This obviously doesn't mean that we sit back and go along for the ride, we still have to do battle against our flesh until we drop.

Gr8Grace · Dec 28, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
people who intentionally close their eyes to the scriptures that refute their theology.

No we don't.
Are you one of His sheep? John 10:27. I am

Can you perish? John 10:28. I can't

I am one of His sheep and I cannot perish. So in light of this FACT......I read~~~

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

The Lord uses a farming/agriculture metaphor to emphasize fruit production/service/work.

To abide or fellowship we are to be filled and walk in the Spirit. Do not Grieve or quench the Spirit.

If we are not abiding in Him...our service is cut away and thrown away" AS" or "LIKE" a branch and burned.

1 Cor 3~~13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up(John 15:6, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved(John10:28), yet so as through fire.

We don't ignore scripture. We don't even ignore bad interpretations. I and Freegrace2 have shown you this TRUTH many times.

BNR32FAN · Dec 28, 2019

Gr8Grace said:
No we don't.
Are you one of His sheep? John 10:27. I am

Can you perish? John 10:28. I can't

I am one of His sheep and I cannot perish. So in light of this FACT......I read~~~

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

The Lord uses a farming/agriculture metaphor to emphasize fruit production/service/work.

To abide or fellowship we are to be filled and walk in the Spirit. Do not Grieve or quench the Spirit.

If we are not abiding in Him...our service is cut away and thrown away" AS" or "LIKE" a branch and burned.

1 Cor 3~~13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up(John 15:6, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved(John10:28), yet so as through fire.

We don't ignore scripture. We don't even ignore bad interpretations. I and Freegrace2 have shown you this TRUTH many times.

There’s a huge difference between John 15 and 1 Corinthians 3. John 15 is a warning about not doing good works and not abiding in Christ. 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about someone who IS building on the foundation of Christ. These people ARE doing good works which can only be accomplished by abiding in Christ. John 15 is speaking about those who are NOT building on the foundation of Christ. They are not bearing fruit and they are not abiding in Christ. They are completely opposite situations.

Gr8Grace · Dec 28, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
John 15 is a warning about not doing good works and not abiding in Christ. 1 Corinthians 3 is speaking about someone who IS building on the foundation of Christ. These people ARE doing good works which can only be accomplished by abiding in Christ..

Nonsense, please re-read
1 Cor 3~~13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up(John 15:6, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved(John10:28), yet so as through fire.

BNR32FAN · Dec 28, 2019

Gr8Grace said:
Nonsense, please re-read
1 Cor 3~~13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up(John 15:6, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved(John10:28), yet so as through fire.

Back up and read

“For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ. Anyone who builds on THAT foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:11-13‬

Paul is talking about people who are building on the foundation of Christ by their works. Now look closely at what Jesus said in John 15:4-5.

“Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

These who are building on the foundation of Christ CANNOT build on that foundation with works IF THEY DO NOT REMAIN IN CHRIST. Therefore those who are building on the foundation of Christ are abiding in Him otherwise they CANNOT build on the foundation of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:13 is saying that the person’s works will be evaluated to see if they were of any benefit. If their works were beneficial they will receive a reward if their works were not beneficial they will not receive a reward but they will still be saved because they were still building on the foundation of Christ. They were still abiding in Christ.

redleghunter · Dec 28, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
The problem is reading Calvinism into these verses when that is not what it is specifically saying. The very next verse (verse 17) is a command that we are to love one another.

I did not even quote any “Calvinism.”

I merely offered the full context and even quoted the commands.

Al Touthentop · Dec 28, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
I wasn't arguing otherwise about the passage referring to believers.

What you WERE doing is asserting that later passages some how negate what he was teaching.

Al Touthentop · Dec 28, 2019

Gr8Grace said:
Nonsense, please re-read
1 Cor 3~~13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up(John 15:6, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved(John10:28), yet so as through fire.

Too bad you haven't paid attention to what it is being said is burned up. That "work" is the people whom they've preached to. If one Christian is burned up after being taught the Gospel, the teacher is not burned up with him. He's still saved.

Nice job cherry picking there.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

The 'work' in this context is not just any work, but the believers who are made into the building.

Al Touthentop · Dec 28, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, good news for you. I have never believed that. Why would you think I believed that? Jesus was temptable like every human being.

If he was just like every human being then he had this 'sin nature' you claim was passed down by Adam.

Or did I screw up and reply to the wrong post?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

Dan1988 said:
The Bible teaches that faith is a gift from God, we can't manufacture it within ourselves. So we have to keep praying for it and thanking the Lord for giving it to us.

I'm sure nobody would be saved if we relied on our ability to remain faithful. So from my understanding of the scriptures, the work of salvation is of the Lord from start to finish. This obviously doesn't mean that we sit back and go along for the ride, we still have to do battle against our flesh until we drop.

When you read Ephesians 2:8, it does not say,

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: they are the gifts of God" (Ephesians 2:8).

In reality, Ephesians 2:8 actually says:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).

The word "it" is singular. The word "gift" is singular.

Paul identifies this gift in the next chapter, too.

"Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God " (Ephesians 3:7).

What is the gift of the grace of God?

It's salvation in Jesus.

Jesus is the gift.

For GOD so loved the world, that He GAVE His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but will have everlasting life (John 3:16).

God the Father GAVE His only begotten Son.
To give is a gift. Jesus is the gift. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
We have to not only believe in Jesus, but we have to obey or follow Jesus.
If not, then we really are not believing in Jesus. True belief or trust in someone is obeying them. A person cannot be unfaithful to their spouse, and say they truly love them. It is the same with God. We also could not be condemned for not believing in GOD if having a belief or faith comes from GOD.

"....he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18).

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

Dan1988 said:
The Bible teaches that faith is a gift from God, we can't manufacture it within ourselves. So we have to keep praying for it and thanking the Lord for giving it to us.

I'm sure nobody would be saved if we relied on our ability to remain faithful. So from my understanding of the scriptures, the work of salvation is of the Lord from start to finish. This obviously doesn't mean that we sit back and go along for the ride, we still have to do battle against our flesh until we drop.

Aso, how exactly are you dealing with 1 John 1:7 and or the other conditional verses on salvation? How do you explain them?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Back up and read

“For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ. Anyone who builds on THAT foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:11-13‬

Paul is talking about people who are building on the foundation of Christ by their works. Now look closely at what Jesus said in John 15:4-5.

“Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:4-5‬

These who are building on the foundation of Christ CANNOT build on that foundation with works IF THEY DO NOT REMAIN IN CHRIST. Therefore those who are building on the foundation of Christ are abiding in Him otherwise they CANNOT build on the foundation of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:13 is saying that the person’s works will be evaluated to see if they were of any benefit. If their works were beneficial they will receive a reward if their works were not beneficial they will not receive a reward but they will still be saved because they were still building on the foundation of Christ. They were still abiding in Christ.

Powerful post. Thank you, brother.

FreeGrace2 · Dec 28, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
What you WERE doing is asserting that later passages some how negate what he was teaching.

Now you're going to have prove your claim here, since I categorically DENY what you charge. In fact, your charge is preposterous.

So, if you don't come with proof to support your charge, we can all realize that your charge is empty and not worth considering.

The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

He’s a Way of life

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Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

He’s a Way of life

Well-Known Member

He’s a Way of life

Thank You Jesus!

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Senior Veteran

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