Prophets, predictions and wonders

No. Not 'reasonable'. Rather: All deceiving. Attempting to bring everyone on earth down in destruction.

mindlight said:

The most powerful lies must carry an element of truth with them. In the case of Muhammad the challenge to idolatry and the call to put God first, to behave righteously in fear of Gods judgment were all reasonable requests.

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The Truth came into the world, and the world hated the Truth, because its deeds are evil.
The world loves its own. (sinful, wicked, deceiving)

mindlight said:

But in the case of Muhammad how would you explain his enduring appeal to more than a billion people.

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Maria Billingsley said:

He invented a new religion.

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Yes, he did, more one among countless others was invented by the Devil.

As we know, JESUS did not invent any religion, by the contrary, He condemned them.

ICONO'CLAST said:

There are no prophets today, not one.
Muhammed [no peace be upon him, but rather wrath abides on him]
was a demonic false prophet who is in hell now.
God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness.
Everything has been revealed and we are heading closer to the last day.

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Agree.

mindlight said:

Clearly some of the prophets in the OT and indeed the two witnesses in Jerusalem have a broader role than simply an internalised affirmation of the church. So I would take this verse in the context of the whole of scripture.

Jonah was called to prophesy to sinful Assyrians who did not know God, The two witnesses will challenge an angry world with an affirmation of the Coming King and Kingdom of God. Agabus warned of a famine that would touch not only Christians but others also.

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Speaking of the two witnesses, we must study deeply Revelation 11: It seems from the text of Revelation 11, that the temple had not yet been occupied by the false messiah, the Beast like a lamb (Rev.13:v.11) , claiming to be God (2Thes.2:1-17), because FIRSTLY THE COURT WHICH IS WITHOUT THE TEMPLE IS GIVEN TO THE GENTILES. Revelation 11:v.2-3:
2 But the court which is WITHOUT the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. - 1.260 days, 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses ...

What will be the scenarios of Jerusalem when the MAN of sin manifest himself in this time? It will be very soon, by the way.
THE FIRST SCENARIO THAT WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM
In fact the false messiah will manifest himself in the holy city in short future. The supposed messiah, called Eliyahu, born in Jerusalem, already living in the holy city for decades (this detail is very important to be known to everyone here of course), this MAN as soon as he manifest himself as a messiah in the days to come, he will begin to make signs and lying wonders. This esoteric / spiritist / kabbalistic messiah of the Jews will do great signs and wonders, even will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, deceiving them that dwell on the earth by the miracles which he has power to do.
THEN A SECOND SCENARIO WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM
All kind of comunications, the midea in general, will comment the signs and lying wonders of the false messiah and will show them to the whole world, mainly the chanels of television. In the other hand, Ministries and Ministers of all denominations and sects, and all religious leaders of all religious system that exist, they will preach and spread at the four corners of the earth saying Christ is in Jerusalem. Then the whole world will hear by/through the leaders of the evangelical Churches and non evengelic too, that he is the Christ or messiah.
AFTER THAT, A THIRD SCENARIO WILL TAKE PLACE IN JERUSALEM
The third scenario in Jerusalem, the holy city, will be of human upheaval, the environment in the holy city will be of extreme convulsion, multitudes of people and kindreds and tongues and nations will travel to Jerusalem, a strong tourist movements from all nations, mainly religious tourism from all religions and evangelical churches of all denominations and sects will travel to Jerusalem, multitudes will be circling in holy city. Even the Pope will meet the false messiah in the midst of a great human mass of religious people, a strong religious movements towards Jerusalem.
These will be the scenarios in Jerusalem during 42 months as soon as manifest the false messiah in Israel, enthroned in Jerusalem, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt. Thus will fulfil literally what is written in Revelation 11 and 13
A FOURTH AND TERRIBLE SCENARIO TAKE PLACE, A SCENARIO OF WAR
Rev.11:v.2 - the court which is without the temple leave out...it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
See, in paralel with the scenarios above, the true Christians will preach against these satanic movements, the environment on the earth will be a spiritual and religious War and one of the seven heads of the Beast of sea -the Papacy and the woman which rides upon him - will be wounded to death.
Then the false messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal religious Empire (iron mixed with clay), and he will give to the Pope his Power, and his Throne and great Authority (Rev.13:v.2, then the deadly wound of the Papacy will be healed and all the World will be wondered after the Pope, called or nicknamed Paulus VII, seated on the throne of the false messiah in the holy city.

And the peoples of the earth included the Jewish people guided by the false messiah, called Eliyahu, they will worship their false messiah which gave power unto the Pope, and also they will worship the Pope, saying, Who is like unto the Pope? who is able to make war with him? Then, face to the environment extremely favorable, the pseudo messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal Empire, a religious Empire, atually an anti-JESUS Empire or AntiChrist's Empire, and according Scriptures who will the FIRST to rule this satanic Empire for 42 months will be the Pope, as it is prophesied in Revelation 13:v.5. (Pope Paulus VII)

Then will be given unto the Pope a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and also will be given power unto him to continue with his blasphemy for forty and two months (Rev.13:v.5) and he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name-JESUS-, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ (Eph.1:v.3).

And will be given unto the Pope Paulus VII to make WAR with the saints (Dan.7:v.22&25-27), and to overcome them: and power will be given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations, all that dwell upon the earth will worship him, those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev. 13:v.9-10 say: 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the PATIENCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS.

THE WORST OF ALL WILL COME AND IT IS AT DOOR
But the worst of all, as soon as ends the FIRST period of 42 months of the Antichrist's Empire, ruled by the Pope Paulus VII, afterwards will assume the RUTHLESS false messiah, and he will rule the Antichrist's Empire for 1.290 days (Dan.12:v.11), then will be established the Abomination of Desolation, the end of the Dispensation is arrived, yeah, this will be the worst of all precedent things as they are described in Revelation 13:v.11-18, but this is for another chapter and a new post.

Among the evangelical people of all denominations will be divisions, they will be hated of all nations for JESUS name's sake, among the believers many will be offended and will betray one another, and will hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise in the churches and will deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan; 12:v.12 In my vision, the day 1,335 is the day of JESUS's coming.

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
God bless

Maria Billingsley said:

You are missing one very important prediction. The Holy Spirit that will dwell in all believers.

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

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You worked good.

God bless

Lazarus Short said:

The above points out that Mohammad was a false prophet. He was a robber, pedophile and mass murderer. Further, his teachings are not compatible with the teachings of the Bible.

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Notice that all the followers of this pseudo Arab prophet named Mohammad, they are possessed by a murderous spirit, spirit of killers, like Cain that was of the Devil and killed his brother.

JESUS said to the Jews: John 8: v.44 - 45
44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

mindlight said:

There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

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To answer this question of yours, "Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?" People will answer, as you are seeing, based on how they interpret the word prophecy. Many people interpret that to mean telling NEW THINGS LEARNED about future events. Not repeating already learned info. That is not really correct. Some biblical prophets prophesied about the same things previously spoken by others. Also, God gives individual's messages that will affect their lives, and the lives of other people, so that they can clear up false biblical interpretations by people throughout the ages, and around the world. Because these ones speak for God having been personally contacted by him, like the biblical prophets of old, they could definitely be defined as prophets of God. See Peter's speech in Acts chapter 2 for confirmation. Some Christians consider any Christians spreading God's word as prophets. No one is going to live or die based on their belief about this.


I have not read much of the Quran, so I am no expert on it. I read about 70 pages online, then stopped when I saw a message stating FBI surveillance pop up on my computer under network connections.

But I believe I can answer why there are those comments by Christians about Muhammad, without knowing much about the Quran.

It's true that God stated in the period the Bible calls the "last days" God pours out his spirit, with visions and dreams upon a number of his people, and they become prophets. See Acts chapter 2. There you'll also see that period started in 33 CE. Peter, the apostle who claims it started in 33 CE, claims in his second letter (2 Peter 3) that the period he called the "last days" continue until Christ comes again. So, according to scripture, and according to historical facts, both yesterday and presently God pours out his spirit on some people, and at Acts 2 these people are biblically called prophets. Some Christians deny this happens today, because they have personally never had God control their dreams, or had visions from God. But it does still happen, and definitely was happening when Muhammad lived.

But this point about who God pours his spirit out on is what is questionable to anyone that is reasonable. As I said above unless some audience sees a miraculous sign, most people will be skeptics about God contacting any individual. That is unless the experience is written down in a book they follow as part of their religious belief.

The reason why Christians say Muhammad was not a prophet is because those who claim to follow him do not claim to be Christians. Read the entire 17th chapter of the gospel of John. Christ said that everlasting life comes to those who know him and his Father in the early verses. Later in that chapter Christ said he did things to make his followers one. That's why Christians claim Muhammad was not a prophet. Most Christians probably do not know much about what Muhammad taught. What they know is that the people in Islam, the religion that claims Muhammad was a prophet do not claim to be Christians. In some countries we hear they even kill people who claim they are Christians.

Woke said:

I have not read much of the Quran, so I am no expert on it. I read about 70 pages online, then stopped when I saw a message stating FBI surveillance pop up on my computer under network connections.
But I believe I can answer why there are those comments by Christians about Muhammad, without knowing much about the Quran.
...
The reason why Christians say Muhammad was not a prophet is because those who claim to follow him do not claim to be Christians. Read the entire 17th chapter of the gospel of John. Christ said that everlasting life comes to those who know him and his Father in the early verses. Later in that chapter Christ said he did things to make his followers one. That's why Christians claim Muhammad was not a prophet. Most Christians probably do not know much about what Muhammad taught. What they know is that the people in Islam, the religion that claims Muhammad was a prophet do not claim to be Christians. In some countries we hear they even kill people who claim they are Christians.

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No need read for much discussion, for the true Christians or believers, it is plainly sufficy to say that Jesus was not born of sin. From eternity to eternity He-JESUS-is the only one, I would say, not born of the Devil. Here is the why JESUS preached: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit-that is God-, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:v.5-7)

I repeat: JESUS is the only one, I would say, not born of the Devil.

Jesus said: John 8:v.46 - Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 1John 3:v.5: And ye know that he manifested himself to take away our sins; and in him there is no sin.
(1Peter 2: 21-22 & Isa.53:v.7) - For to this you are called; for Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye may follow his steps. Who committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.

Comparing in few words:

Muhammad was born of the Devil, lived a sinful, libertine, lascivious life, he was born and died of the sin from his birth, he was born from earthly, animal, and even bestial nature, he was never born again or was born of God, no, he was born only and only from the Devil, like Cain (1John 3: v.12).

Muhammad is a demon.

Now, before or face the Judgment Seat of Christ, Muhammad is already doomed to eternal perdition, he is destined for the fire of hell.

mindlight said:

There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

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The Bible lists a series of tests that can be applied to prophets to determine whether they are genuine or not. Many of these tests can be individually counterfeited, but collectively, they provide an impassable barrier to false prophets. False prophets can quote Scripture or have some of their prophecies come true, but they can still be false prophets—subtly using every opportunity to lead God's people astray.

A true prophet of God will meet all the Biblical criteria, which can be summarized as follows:

1. A true prophet's message will be in complete harmony with the word of God and the law of God.

2. A true prophet's predictions must come to pass.

3. A true prophet prophesies to edify the Church, counseling and advising in religious matters.

4. A true prophet will exalt Christ as the Son of God and the Saviour of humankind.

5. The true prophet will speak with authority (Matthew 7:29).

6. The true prophet will bear good fruit.

7. The true prophet, when in vision, will exhibit physical signs.


These signs cannot be readily counterfeited. In fact, modern so-called visionaries tend to fall down with their eyes closed, and they have breath in them, because only God can sustain life without breath. Read about some of the 19th century's prophets—true and false—in our next article

Testing the Prophets

mindlight said:

So a prophet shocks us with a truth that takes a while to digest. It disturbs, irritates, overthrows but might not be immediately understandable.

A teacher can actually explain what something means.

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That's a pretty good summary!

mindlight said:

I guess it depends on whether you see the conversation with an Islamic Teacher who will probably never convert as evangelism or spiritual warfare. Ephesians 6. The truth is that Islam is a lie. Maybe in one on one evangelism we have to play polite language games so as not to offend and to get our message across. Here on these forums it is only about truth.

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Telling a Muslim, a teacher or not, that Islam is a lie will get you no where. Islamic teachers are spiritually interested and are more acutely aware of the voids Islam cannot answer. Sometimes they are perfect individuals to talk about Christ. Muslims love Jesus as they love all prophets and we can build far greater relations when we work on what we agree on rather than what we disagree with and through that offer insights on who Christ is. The HS is responsible for revelation not us, so this takes the pressure off. Be intentional but this doesn't mean forcefully. Christ tells us to love our Neighbour as ourselves... well I don't know about you but I don't like people walking up to me unsolicited and telling me I believe a lie, so why do we think this honors God when we take this exact approach to others? Is this really loving our neighbor as ourselves?

mindlight said:

So I guess the real appeal of a false prophet is that people whether from habit, blindness, sin or willful choice prefer the lie to the truth. They do not want to make the painful transition to honest living or doubt that are able to do that so they choose to remain with what they know even though it is false.

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you are correct and an example of this is the first lie told by satan (PROPHET?)

Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

JESUS SAID
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Today most christian and other religions believe satans original lie. Because they say you pop off to heaven or hell when you take you last breath.

not so according to the bible.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Definitely differences between OT and NT prophets
In the Old Testament, God spoke to the prophets primarily. Compared to New Testament, John 10, God speaks to all believers.

Also, New Testament, I Cor 1 establishes that's it's written to believers
- We're to desire to prophesy I Cor 14:1
-"For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." I Cor 14:31. Yahweh will tell us what He wants us to say and tells us who they are. Then that message may be delivered in love with certain standards adhered to -
- it's to edifiy and exhort and comfort. I Cor 14:3
. If you are in a church, you follow the procedure your church has established. You would need to give a prophetic word under their leadership. Sometimes that means it's submitted in writing to an associate pastor. If you are a prophet, the other prophets also judge the prophetic word. V29 Again it depends on how the church has it set up.

If you receive a prophetic word:
"Despise not prophesyings." "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess 5:20-21
How do we prove all things? Foremost, we have Holy Scripture, The Holy Spirit, prayer, spiritual discernment, and hearing God's voice. He'll give confirmation. (Acts 9;9-19 especially v 10-12; II Cor 13:1).

This just marginally covers several points

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"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." I John 5:7. Word = Jesus Christ "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14)

Original Happy Camper said:

you are correct and an example of this is the first lie told by satan (PROPHET?)

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The detail to be focused is that the effect death or decease of the body was not instantaneous or immediate.
Adam died after 930 years from his sin and thus fulfiled itself what God had said by the word of the prophecy. On the other words, we can say Adam was spiritually died completely, he would need to reconcile with God. But physically the sinner Adam was alive yet.

But there is another detail to be analyzed. God had warned that there were many good trees in the environment of His Garden, but there was one tree that was bad: Satan, a former Cherub and his nature was no more celestial or heavenly, but of carnal nature, animal. Grom him was born Cain. Cain was of the Devil-1John 3:v.10-13 and Jude 1:v.11.

The environment in the Garden of God was contamined by the rebbelion of the Cherub that ruled the Eden, therefore, there was one disguised and bad being among the trees of God's Garden: Satan. We can see a similar picture of the heavenly Eden in Revelation 12, the woman and Satan in the same celestial environment, and Satan's intention in to devour the child of the woman.

Original Happy Camper said:

Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

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Satan (now the red Dragon - Rev.12:v.3-4) is the father of lie. Check it in John 8:v.44-45

Original Happy Camper said:

JESUS SAID
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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This prophecy fulfilled literally as we know, for the testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy.