sovereigngrace
Well-Known Member
- Dec 9, 2019
- 9,042
- 3,450
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
sovereigngrace,
1. You are not being forthright but that is alright I forgive you anyway.
2. Jack Van Impe reconciles scriptures together properly for the most part.
3. Pre-trib is not collapsing even though there are some who switch over to post-trib by some students who went to Dallas Theological Seminary. From what I recall they were not kind.
There are some post who switch over to pre-trib.
It is not man made because we back up by scripture and scriptural context.
I have no problem addressing it.
Thank you for giving me more than your usual fly-by political soundbite. However, we still have no direct quotes from Holy Writ. Why are Pretribber scared to quote Scripture??? This is the Pretrib MO. This is why people distrust Dispensationalism.
You are following in Imp's footsteps - exact same flawed hermeneutics. The Baptist Church in Ireland has went in my life time from strong Dispy, to strong Reformed/Amil. PTL. I was talking to someone in-the-know within the Southern Baptist Church, who is a strong Dispy. He was lamenting to me that that was also beginning to happen in his denomination. My own Church would've been 95% Dispy, but is now 98% Amil.
4. All 6 are about the future event of the time of Jacob’s trouble Jeremiah 30:7; Alas! For that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
The day that is great is the Day of the Lord which is the 2nd advent.
Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 14:1-9; Matthew 24:21; Revelation 1:7; 16:16.
What are you talking about? Jacob's troubles is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation or anywhere else in the New Testament. Pretribbers have to force it in there. 2+2=4, not 22.
Please read my post #645 that shows that a careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.
Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.
5. It is also about the restoration of Israel Ezekiel 37:16-18; Matthew 23:39; Romans 11:25-29.
6. It is about fulfilling their covenants of Abraham Genesis 12:1-3 make a great nation Genesis 15:18-21 concerning the land. This is why Jesus said Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth Matthew 5:5.
7. The throne of David 2 Samuel 7:13-16 the throne and kingdom and house forever. God will establish it.
1 Chronicles 28:1-7 David’s kingdom forever that would be built by Solomon because David was a man of war.
Luke 1:32-33 Jesus and the Davidic connection v 67-71and the Abrahamic oath 72-80. The restoration didn’t happen because Israel rejected Christ Matthew 23:37:39.
Jesus already introduced His kingdom 2000 years ago and fulfilled the inauguration the same.
Christ came as king, although many deny this truth with their end-time theology. However, that is what the Scripture says. The fact is, this wasn’t what unbelieving Israel was expecting – a servant king, a humble Messiah. This didn’t fit in with their carnal elitist perception of an earthly political kingdom. This is where they missed it. Unfortunately, Premils make the same mistake of also anticipating an earthly political kingdom. They miss the fact that the King came and assumed David’s throne by being raised from the dead 2,000 years ago. They too look for an earthly temporal domain that is unknown to the pages of the New Testament.
The Pharisaic expectation was completely different from God’s plan. Christ brought a spiritual heavenly kingdom to this earth not a physical natural kingdom as some imagined from their understanding of Old Testament readings.
In fulfilment of Zechariah 9:9, and as the Lord’s ministry came to an end on earth, we see Him entering into Jerusalem triumphant on a donkey. There, He received the adoration of believing Israel. They were notably crying: “Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt” (John 12:13-15).
Mark 11:10 parallels saying: “Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.”
Even though the religious Jews and pagan Romans were largely ignorant to who Christ was, the crowd acknowledged the presence of Messiah’s kingdom manifested through Jesus Christ. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of every Davidic prophecy. He was David’s greater son. In Jesus Christ, we see the introduction of the eternal Davidic hope and the plan of God for mankind. The kingdom and the king are inseparable in both the spiritual and the natural realm. A king without a kingdom is not a king. This triumphant parade of Christ signaled the fulfilment of many of the Old Testament prophecies relating the coming of the Davidic kingdom.
Whilst the kingdom is coming in all its eternal glory at the Coming of the Lord, the kingdom is here now spiritually. If you are saved this morn then you reside today now within God’s holy kingdom.
Jesus said in Matthew 11:12, “from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence (or biazo), and the violent (or biastes) take it by force.”
Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth (biazo) into it.”
The kingdom is sometimes described as “the kingdom of heaven” and in others “the kingdom of God.” An elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.
8. Daniel 9:24; the 70 weeks are 70 sevens which are 490 years. It was about years not days Daniel 9:2.
The last week of Daniel 9:27 is divided into 2 parts of 3.5 years (Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3; 12:5; 14; 13:5).
They are marked off or determined from all others because they concern thy people (Israel) and thy Holy City (Jerusalem) for which Daniel was praying ( Daniel 6:10; 9:1-23). This is why the 6 points you are asking about are not historical but future.
It is deeply grievous to see you attribute to antichrist what pertains exclusively to Christ. This exemplifies the dangers hat attend dispensationalism, and why every Bible student should run from it. Frankly, the gap-theory is a joke.
Daniel 9:2 says: “In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes.”
Are these seventy years linear, congruent and sequential?
The entire prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 covers a period of "seventy weeks." There is no reason to understand it other than a period that applies to one complete, sequential block of time. After all, if God fulfilled the first 70 here (in Daniel 9:21-24) literally and harmoniously in an undivided manner, why would he not do the same with the second 70 (in Daniel 9:25-26)?
A literal straightforward reading of Daniel 9 would assume the 70th week to follow immediately after the 69th week. If it does not then it cannot properly be called the 70th week! It is illogical to insert a 2,000-year gap between the 69th and the 70th week, especially when no hint of a gap is found in the prophecy itself. What is more, there is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the following 62 weeks. Why insert one between the 69th and the 70th week?
History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. There is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.
Let’s use an illustration. If you were directed to go to the next state and told and told it was exactly a 490-mile journey (right down to the very yard). You were told that in-between the starting point and your destination you would pass two important landmarks, the first after 49 miles, which was accurate to the very yard. The next was a further 434 miles ahead (bringing your journey to 483 miles in total), which also occurred right down to the very yard. The journey's end would be a final 7 miles down the road from your second landmark, making your total journey 490 miles. Exactly half way between 483 miles and 490 (486 ½ miles) you would witness a monumental landmark that would surpass anything you have ever seen. How would you then feel if you were told when you hit the second landmark that your final location was still a possible 2,000+ miles down the road with NO exact finishing point? Such an idea would be totally unthinkable in the natural, but unprecedented in God's economy. God always fulfils His promises.
9. To finish the transgression; Hebrew pasha; to revolt, rebel or sin against lawful authority and translated transgression (Psalms 51:13; Isaiah 43:27; etc. Galatians 3:17-25; the law was added because of transgressions until the seed should come and they rejected the Messiah but will receive him at the 2nd coming and turn ungodliness from Jacob and cause s nation to be born at once ( Romans 11:25-29; Isaiah 66:7-10; Ezekiel 36:24-30)
But who has the ability to "finish the transgression" and how?
10. To make an end to sins; This will not happen till the 2nd coming Ezekiel 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zechariah 14:1-21.
But sin continues in Zechariah 14:1-21 and after that, right up until the end of your alleged future millennium!!!
11. To make reconciliation (atonement) for iniquity; Hebrew Avon means perverseness, to be crooked or wrung out of course ( 1 Samuel 20:30; 2 Samuel 19:19; Job 33:37.
Atonement was made at the cross for the whole world John 3:16 but not Israel as a nation and will not till Christ returns (Zechariah 13:1-7; Romans 11:25-29).
What? That is heresy!!!!!!!!! Christ was Israel's Savior! His death was the final sacrifice for sin.
Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”
Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”
Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”
Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”
Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”
1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”
Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
12. To bring in everlasting righteousness; when the first 3 are finished, then everlasting righteousness will be ushered in ( Isaiah 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Daniel 7:13,14,18,27; Matthew 25:31-46; Ezekiel 43:7;Romans 11:25-29).
When does this occur? At Christ coming, or, at the end of your supposed future millennium? Isa 9:6-7 is talking about His incarnation.
Last edited:
Upvote
0