The Fatal Flaw in Dispensationalism

sovereigngrace · Dec 26, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1. You are not being forthright but that is alright I forgive you anyway.

2. Jack Van Impe reconciles scriptures together properly for the most part.

3. Pre-trib is not collapsing even though there are some who switch over to post-trib by some students who went to Dallas Theological Seminary. From what I recall they were not kind.
There are some post who switch over to pre-trib.
It is not man made because we back up by scripture and scriptural context.
I have no problem addressing it.

Thank you for giving me more than your usual fly-by political soundbite. However, we still have no direct quotes from Holy Writ. Why are Pretribber scared to quote Scripture??? This is the Pretrib MO. This is why people distrust Dispensationalism.

You are following in Imp's footsteps - exact same flawed hermeneutics. The Baptist Church in Ireland has went in my life time from strong Dispy, to strong Reformed/Amil. PTL. I was talking to someone in-the-know within the Southern Baptist Church, who is a strong Dispy. He was lamenting to me that that was also beginning to happen in his denomination. My own Church would've been 95% Dispy, but is now 98% Amil.

4. All 6 are about the future event of the time of Jacob’s trouble Jeremiah 30:7; Alas! For that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
The day that is great is the Day of the Lord which is the 2nd advent.

Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 14:1-9; Matthew 24:21; Revelation 1:7; 16:16.

What are you talking about? Jacob's troubles is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation or anywhere else in the New Testament. Pretribbers have to force it in there. 2+2=4, not 22.

Please read my post #645 that shows that a careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

5. It is also about the restoration of Israel Ezekiel 37:16-18; Matthew 23:39; Romans 11:25-29.

6. It is about fulfilling their covenants of Abraham Genesis 12:1-3 make a great nation Genesis 15:18-21 concerning the land. This is why Jesus said Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth Matthew 5:5.

7. The throne of David 2 Samuel 7:13-16 the throne and kingdom and house forever. God will establish it.
1 Chronicles 28:1-7 David’s kingdom forever that would be built by Solomon because David was a man of war.
Luke 1:32-33 Jesus and the Davidic connection v 67-71and the Abrahamic oath 72-80. The restoration didn’t happen because Israel rejected Christ Matthew 23:37:39.

Jesus already introduced His kingdom 2000 years ago and fulfilled the inauguration the same.

Christ came as king, although many deny this truth with their end-time theology. However, that is what the Scripture says. The fact is, this wasn’t what unbelieving Israel was expecting – a servant king, a humble Messiah. This didn’t fit in with their carnal elitist perception of an earthly political kingdom. This is where they missed it. Unfortunately, Premils make the same mistake of also anticipating an earthly political kingdom. They miss the fact that the King came and assumed David’s throne by being raised from the dead 2,000 years ago. They too look for an earthly temporal domain that is unknown to the pages of the New Testament.

The Pharisaic expectation was completely different from God’s plan. Christ brought a spiritual heavenly kingdom to this earth not a physical natural kingdom as some imagined from their understanding of Old Testament readings.

In fulfilment of Zechariah 9:9, and as the Lord’s ministry came to an end on earth, we see Him entering into Jerusalem triumphant on a donkey. There, He received the adoration of believing Israel. They were notably crying: “Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt” (John 12:13-15).

Mark 11:10 parallels saying: “Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.”

Even though the religious Jews and pagan Romans were largely ignorant to who Christ was, the crowd acknowledged the presence of Messiah’s kingdom manifested through Jesus Christ. Christ was indeed the fulfilment of every Davidic prophecy. He was David’s greater son. In Jesus Christ, we see the introduction of the eternal Davidic hope and the plan of God for mankind. The kingdom and the king are inseparable in both the spiritual and the natural realm. A king without a kingdom is not a king. This triumphant parade of Christ signaled the fulfilment of many of the Old Testament prophecies relating the coming of the Davidic kingdom.

Whilst the kingdom is coming in all its eternal glory at the Coming of the Lord, the kingdom is here now spiritually. If you are saved this morn then you reside today now within God’s holy kingdom.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:12, “from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence (or biazo), and the violent (or biastes) take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth (biazo) into it.”

The kingdom is sometimes described as “the kingdom of heaven” and in others “the kingdom of God.” An elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

8. Daniel 9:24; the 70 weeks are 70 sevens which are 490 years. It was about years not days Daniel 9:2.
The last week of Daniel 9:27 is divided into 2 parts of 3.5 years (Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3; 12:5; 14; 13:5).
They are marked off or determined from all others because they concern thy people (Israel) and thy Holy City (Jerusalem) for which Daniel was praying ( Daniel 6:10; 9:1-23). This is why the 6 points you are asking about are not historical but future.

It is deeply grievous to see you attribute to antichrist what pertains exclusively to Christ. This exemplifies the dangers hat attend dispensationalism, and why every Bible student should run from it. Frankly, the gap-theory is a joke.

Daniel 9:2 says: “In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes.”

Are these seventy years linear, congruent and sequential?

The entire prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 covers a period of "seventy weeks." There is no reason to understand it other than a period that applies to one complete, sequential block of time. After all, if God fulfilled the first 70 here (in Daniel 9:21-24) literally and harmoniously in an undivided manner, why would he not do the same with the second 70 (in Daniel 9:25-26)?

A literal straightforward reading of Daniel 9 would assume the 70th week to follow immediately after the 69th week. If it does not then it cannot properly be called the 70th week! It is illogical to insert a 2,000-year gap between the 69th and the 70th week, especially when no hint of a gap is found in the prophecy itself. What is more, there is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the following 62 weeks. Why insert one between the 69th and the 70th week?

History shows that the 490 years were linear, congruent and sequential. Those of us that take 490 years to mean exactly that do not have to prove that it is harmonious; we just have to accept what it states. We take it literally (1) because it happened literally, (2) there is no command to decapitate it and project it into the unknown. Seven multiplied by seventy comes to 490 cohesive unitary years, not 2,500 broken up years and counting. There is no gap mentioned in the prophecy so there is no need or warrant to insert one in there.

Let’s use an illustration. If you were directed to go to the next state and told and told it was exactly a 490-mile journey (right down to the very yard). You were told that in-between the starting point and your destination you would pass two important landmarks, the first after 49 miles, which was accurate to the very yard. The next was a further 434 miles ahead (bringing your journey to 483 miles in total), which also occurred right down to the very yard. The journey's end would be a final 7 miles down the road from your second landmark, making your total journey 490 miles. Exactly half way between 483 miles and 490 (486 ½ miles) you would witness a monumental landmark that would surpass anything you have ever seen. How would you then feel if you were told when you hit the second landmark that your final location was still a possible 2,000+ miles down the road with NO exact finishing point? Such an idea would be totally unthinkable in the natural, but unprecedented in God's economy. God always fulfils His promises.

9. To finish the transgression; Hebrew pasha; to revolt, rebel or sin against lawful authority and translated transgression (Psalms 51:13; Isaiah 43:27; etc. Galatians 3:17-25; the law was added because of transgressions until the seed should come and they rejected the Messiah but will receive him at the 2nd coming and turn ungodliness from Jacob and cause s nation to be born at once ( Romans 11:25-29; Isaiah 66:7-10; Ezekiel 36:24-30)

But who has the ability to "finish the transgression" and how?

10. To make an end to sins; This will not happen till the 2nd coming Ezekiel 36:24-30; 37:24-27; 43:7; Zechariah 14:1-21.

But sin continues in Zechariah 14:1-21 and after that, right up until the end of your alleged future millennium!!!

11. To make reconciliation (atonement) for iniquity; Hebrew Avon means perverseness, to be crooked or wrung out of course ( 1 Samuel 20:30; 2 Samuel 19:19; Job 33:37.

Atonement was made at the cross for the whole world John 3:16 but not Israel as a nation and will not till Christ returns (Zechariah 13:1-7; Romans 11:25-29).

What? That is heresy!!!!!!!!! Christ was Israel's Savior! His death was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

12. To bring in everlasting righteousness; when the first 3 are finished, then everlasting righteousness will be ushered in ( Isaiah 9:6-7; 12:1-6; Daniel 7:13,14,18,27; Matthew 25:31-46; Ezekiel 43:7;Romans 11:25-29).

When does this occur? At Christ coming, or, at the end of your supposed future millennium? Isa 9:6-7 is talking about His incarnation.

sovereigngrace · Dec 26, 2019

13. To seal up the vision and prophecy to make an end of prophecies by the fulfillment of those concerning Israel and Jerusalem.
Also the word prophecy should be translated prophet elsewhere. For there will be no need of inspired men to rebuke Israel in a way to lead them into the way of righteousness for all shall know the Lord from the least unto the greatest (Jeremiah 31:31-40; Isaiah 11:9.

When does this occur? Add Christ coming? Or, at the end of your supposed future millennium?

14. To anoint the most holy; This refers to the cleansing of the holy of holies, the temple, and the city of Jerusalem from the abomination of desolation and the sacrilege of Gentiles and to the establishment and anointing of the Millennial temple of Ezekiel 40-43; Zechariah 6:12,13.
The most Holy is never used of a person, nor would the Jews ever associate this term with their Messiah, who is distinguished from this term in this passage by the title “Messiah”.

What Millennial temple? Why would they need it? Christ has abolished the old covenant in His blood forever!

Christ was/is the most holy One!

Luke 1:34-35 records of Jesus, “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Mark 1:23-25 says of Jesus, “And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.”

I John 2:20 says of Jesus, “ye have an unction from the Holy One”

Peter declared of Jesus on the day of Pentecost, in Acts 2:27, “Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”

Peter declared of Jesus to the unbelieving Jews, in Acts 3:14, “ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.”

Revelation 3:7 says of Christ, “to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.”

In Revelation 6:10 the Lord is described in similar terms, “And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

The “most Holy” here is Jesus Christ. Israel's Messiah has already come. He came on time and fulfilled Daniel 9 in full. From the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah was to be 483 years. The anointing of Messiah ushered in the commencement of His earthly ministry and saw the beginning of the 70th week.

When Jesus appeared on the scene, John cried: “Behold the Lamb of God.” When this time was fulfilled, those who knew this prophecy were expecting the appearance of the Messiah, that is, the Christ (Christ being the Greek form of the Hebrew word Messiah).

When John came baptizing, “the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ or not.” There was a Messianic expectancy because of Daniel 9. Messiah was indeed due. John was quick to point them to their Messiah Jesus Christ, saying, “I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:15-17).

John plainly told them that he was not the Christ; he was only the forerunner. The time had now come that Jesus should be “made manifest to Israel” (John 1:29 31). He was then baptized and after He had prayed: “the heaven was opened. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased” (Luke 3:21,22).

This was Christ’s heavenly vindication on the Son of God; He had appeared to Israel right on time! Thus Jesus, in evident reference to the time prophecy of Daniel, said, “The time is fulfilled” (Mark 1:15) and as the Messiah, the Christ, the “anointed one,” he preached the gospel. Immediately after Christ’s anointing, Luke 4:1-4 records, “Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil.”

After His forty days in the wilderness, Christ presented Himself to the nation of Israel, thus fully Daniel 9 and many other Old Testament passages, and commencing His earthly ministry; this He now did in the power of the Spirit. Luke 4:14-21 declares, “Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”

Christ’s anointing here is closely connected to the commencement of His earthly ministry. He had to be “anointed” of “the Spirit” in order to perform His earthly task, fulfil Scripture, and be an example for every believer that would follow.

Peter testified of this truth to the other Apostles in Acts 10:38, “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”

The disciples prayed to Father, whilst speaking of Christ, in Acts 4:27, “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.”

15. This will be accomplished when their nation will almost be wiped out Matthew 24:14-21,22.
The Jewish elect will be gathered together Matthew 24:31.
Revelation 12:14-17 which includes the Jewish remnant Revelation 11:13.
It will be accomplished according to the covenants 2 Samuel 13:16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-7, and Romans’ 11:25-29.
Israel is blinded till the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
All of Israel will be saved for the deliver of Mt. Sion shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
God’s covenant will take away Israel’s sins.

Concerning the gospel they are enemies of the present day church but beloved for the fathers sake which is the gifts and callings that are without repentance.
These are the covenants of Abraham and David which are unconditional conditioned by obedience of the whole nation. This will happen when Sion the delivers comes Romans 11:26 who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who comes from Heaven with the Heavenly saints to Armageddon to save Israel and
destroy the armies of the world Revelation 19:11-20 and establish the millennial kingdom Revelation 20.
The Daniel’s 70 weeks, time of Jacob’s trouble and the KoH reign and restoration of Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4, 9;6-7, 66:7-10 Ezekiel 37:16-28, Romans 11:25-29 etc. is all about Israel not the church of today.

Salvation is no longer operated through a nationalistic theocracy in this New Testament era, neither is it restricted to one lone nation. The cross changed all that. What altered was that Christ’s exclusive focus upon natural Israel was widened out to include all nations equally. The lost and rejected throughout the Gentile world have been availed an equal opportunity to freely enter into salvation through the atoning work of the cross. The grace of God permeates all nations today. The Lord removed the natural Israeli boundaries that existed to reach the nations. All nations, tribes and peoples today are therefore viewed the same by Christ. Israel’s previous favored position no longer exists today. It has been eternally removed by Christ and the new eternal covenant arrangement. God now works through a spiritual nation that transcends all the national borders of the world and embraces all nations. This is his only structure on this earth; it is the only spiritual edifice that He recognizes and uses for His glory.

Dispensationalism is inherently racially prejudiced in that it discriminates between humans. It holds to a form of spiritual apartheid. Israel cannot come to Christ and join the Church in this age, they must wait until some supposed age after the “rapture” when the Church is gone in order to be eligible to get saved. What is more, Dispensationalism places Jewish sinners in a superior plain to Gentile sinners. Jews outside of Christ are viewed differently than Gentiles outside of Christ. Unsaved Jews are looked upon as God’s chosen people despite the fact they reject Christ. This cannot be. In fact, this is expressly forbidden by Scripture. We cannot differentiate between sinners. All Christ-rejecters are under the wrath of God and are of their father the devil, all saved Jews and Gentiles are washed in the blood of Jesus are therefore under the approval of God. God’s chosen people are not simply Jews (those who by an accident of birth are the uncircumcised), but Jews and Gentile who love Jesus. That is the biblical criteria for walking in the blessing of God. God doesn’t choose anyone that doesn’t choose His Son. God’s chosen people are the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ throughout the ages.

Conclusion

You have this prophecy pointing north, south, east and west at one time. You don't seem to have a clue that it was pointing to the earthly ministry of Christ 2000 years ago. In one breath, you have this pointing to the Messiah's first event, in another, the second advent, in another the millenium, in another the end of the millennium, finally, in another, the NHNE. This is a distorted mess. It is erroneous and dangerous. What is a glorious prophecy of the first advent is distorted, corrupted and attributed to antichrist. No wonder many are abandoning this confusion!!!

owly · Dec 26, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
What you are missing, and so is Premil, is that other clear Scripture shows "the first resurrection" to be Christ's glorious conquering of the grave. We see that "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5) relates to what Christ secured 2000 years ago.

Sovereigngrace,

With yourself being of the Amil persuasion, I am wondering why you don't here adopt the position of ""the first resurrection"" (as the term is strictly used in Rev 20) referring to those in the text whose souls went up into heaven, upon their death. (Awaiting their 'second' resurrection -of the body- as such).

Enjoy reading your posts here.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

owly said:
Sovereigngrace,

With yourself being of the Amil persuasion, I am wondering why you don't here adopt the position of ""the first resurrection"" (as the term is strictly used in Rev 20) referring to those in the text whose souls went up into heaven, upon their death. (Awaiting their 'second' resurrection -of the body- as such).

Enjoy reading your posts here.

Thanks for your thoughts and thanks for the question!

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

What many overlook the phrase "hath part." Whatever that refers to will seal this debate. The unfortunate thing for Premils is that it is present tense. So whatever resurrection it is speaking of, believers currently have their "part" in it. Whatever “the first resurrection” is, participation in it qualifies humans’ to escape the horrors of eternal punishment (the second death). In this experience Christians identify with Christ’s victorious resurrection.

The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

Anything that we are, or anything that we possess, that is of any spiritual worth, emanates solely from what Christ has done for us and how we partake in that, “For in him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28). The fact is, “we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones” (Ephesians 5:30). This is indeed a deep spiritual mystery. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt, fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. Romans 11:36 says, “For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever.”

Hebrews 3:14 records of those that are saved, “we are made partakers of Christ.” Peter says of us now, that we are “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

We cannot comprehend the authority of the child of God outside of this spiritual union, because without this oneness we are powerless. Christ is our representative head who has obtained victory over sin, death, condemnation, guilt fear, Satan and every other enemy of our soul. We reign because He reigns. We exercise authority because He exercises authority, at the right hand of majesty on high.

1 Peter 3:21 witnesses: “baptism (talking about being baptised into Christ’s death upon salvation) doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

We were legally represented "in Christ" in His life, death and resurrection. It was a substitutionary mission Christ was on. Just like we were legally represented "in Adam" when He fell, we were justified in the perfect life that Christ lived, the vicarious sacrifice He made and the triumphant resurrection He secured. The Lord’s resurrection spelt defeat for all unrighteousness. Every enemy of God was defeated in the glorious resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:14 & 17 makes clear: “if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain ... if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.”

Why? Christ’s resurrection secured our salvation. In fact, there is no eternal life apart from resurrection. If Christ had simply died and remained in the grave then there would be no victory over sin, death and the grave. Christ took upon Himself our sin (being made sin for us). He was punished for our sin. He conquered our sin by paying the full penalty for it on Calvary’s tree. Christ then defeating sin, death and the grave through His victorious resurrection from the dead.

Ephesians 2:5: “Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ (aorist active indicative) with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).”

When it comes to salvation, John often presents an absolute truth embodying a condition immediately followed by a promise. The promise either refers to experiencing eternal bliss or victory over eternal punishment. Please look at the following evidence from the same author (John) in John's Gospel and 1 John. See his repeated emphasis on only one single means of overcoming (or escaping) “the second death” (eternal punishment).

jerry kelso · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
When does this occur? Add Christ coming? Or, at the end of your supposed future millennium?

What Millennial temple? Why would they need it? Christ has abolished the old covenant in His blood forever!

Christ was/is the most holy One!

Luke 1:34-35 records of Jesus, “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

Mark 1:23-25 says of Jesus, “And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.”

I John 2:20 says of Jesus, “ye have an unction from the Holy One”

Peter declared of Jesus on the day of Pentecost, in Acts 2:27, “Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”

Peter declared of Jesus to the unbelieving Jews, in Acts 3:14, “ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you.”

Revelation 3:7 says of Christ, “to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.”

In Revelation 6:10 the Lord is described in similar terms, “And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

The “most Holy” here is Jesus Christ. Israel's Messiah has already come. He came on time and fulfilled Daniel 9 in full. From the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah was to be 483 years. The anointing of Messiah ushered in the commencement of His earthly ministry and saw the beginning of the 70th week.

When Jesus appeared on the scene, John cried: “Behold the Lamb of God.” When this time was fulfilled, those who knew this prophecy were expecting the appearance of the Messiah, that is, the Christ (Christ being the Greek form of the Hebrew word Messiah).

When John came baptizing, “the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ or not.” There was a Messianic expectancy because of Daniel 9. Messiah was indeed due. John was quick to point them to their Messiah Jesus Christ, saying, “I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:15-17).

John plainly told them that he was not the Christ; he was only the forerunner. The time had now come that Jesus should be “made manifest to Israel” (John 1:29 31). He was then baptized and after He had prayed: “the heaven was opened. And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased” (Luke 3:21,22).

This was Christ’s heavenly vindication on the Son of God; He had appeared to Israel right on time! Thus Jesus, in evident reference to the time prophecy of Daniel, said, “The time is fulfilled” (Mark 1:15) and as the Messiah, the Christ, the “anointed one,” he preached the gospel. Immediately after Christ’s anointing, Luke 4:1-4 records, “Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil.”

After His forty days in the wilderness, Christ presented Himself to the nation of Israel, thus fully Daniel 9 and many other Old Testament passages, and commencing His earthly ministry; this He now did in the power of the Spirit. Luke 4:14-21 declares, “Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.”

Christ’s anointing here is closely connected to the commencement of His earthly ministry. He had to be “anointed” of “the Spirit” in order to perform His earthly task, fulfil Scripture, and be an example for every believer that would follow.

Peter testified of this truth to the other Apostles in Acts 10:38, “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”

The disciples prayed to Father, whilst speaking of Christ, in Acts 4:27, “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed.”

Salvation is no longer operated through a nationalistic theocracy in this New Testament era, neither is it restricted to one lone nation. The cross changed all that. What altered was that Christ’s exclusive focus upon natural Israel was widened out to include all nations equally. The lost and rejected throughout the Gentile world have been availed an equal opportunity to freely enter into salvation through the atoning work of the cross. The grace of God permeates all nations today. The Lord removed the natural Israeli boundaries that existed to reach the nations. All nations, tribes and peoples today are therefore viewed the same by Christ. Israel’s previous favored position no longer exists today. It has been eternally removed by Christ and the new eternal covenant arrangement. God now works through a spiritual nation that transcends all the national borders of the world and embraces all nations. This is his only structure on this earth; it is the only spiritual edifice that He recognizes and uses for His glory.

Dispensationalism is inherently racially prejudiced in that it discriminates between humans. It holds to a form of spiritual apartheid. Israel cannot come to Christ and join the Church in this age, they must wait until some supposed age after the “rapture” when the Church is gone in order to be eligible to get saved. What is more, Dispensationalism places Jewish sinners in a superior plain to Gentile sinners. Jews outside of Christ are viewed differently than Gentiles outside of Christ. Unsaved Jews are looked upon as God’s chosen people despite the fact they reject Christ. This cannot be. In fact, this is expressly forbidden by Scripture. We cannot differentiate between sinners. All Christ-rejecters are under the wrath of God and are of their father the devil, all saved Jews and Gentiles are washed in the blood of Jesus are therefore under the approval of God. God’s chosen people are not simply Jews (those who by an accident of birth are the uncircumcised), but Jews and Gentile who love Jesus. That is the biblical criteria for walking in the blessing of God. God doesn’t choose anyone that doesn’t choose His Son. God’s chosen people are the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ throughout the ages.

Conclusion

You have this prophecy pointing north, south, east and west at one time. You don't seem to have a clue that it was pointing to the earthly ministry of Christ 2000 years ago. You have this pointing to the Messiah first event, second advent, the millenium, the end of the millennium, the NHNE. This is a distorted mess. It is erroneous and dangerous. What is a glorious prophecy of the first advent is distorted, corrupted and attributed to antichrist.

sovereigngrace,

1 Sorry, but you are in left field.
Nobody argued that the New Covenant didn’t happen in Daniel 9-26 at Calvary when he was cut off or in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
But the New Covenant was not made with the whole nation of Israel in the early church under the KoH program.
They rejected that in Jesus ministry Matthew 23:37-39.
Jesus said the KoH time wasn’t for them to know Acts 1:6-7.
Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8:7-12 are the same and have not been fulfilled.

2. Israel the nation is backslidden today because the time of the gentiles has not come in Romans 11:25.

3. No one is arguing that there is not a complete theocracy with Christ as in Israel’s day. But there will be in the millennial kingdom for Christ for all Israel will be saved Romans 11:26.
The church will be kings, priests and rulers in the kingdom to come Revelation 5:9-10.
Israel will be saved by the New Covenant at the end of the tribulation and will rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4
Rulership positions will be different between Israel and the church in the KoH reign on earth.
All will be one spiritually under the New Covenant. Christ will be the ultimate potentate on earth.

4. Now if you don’t believe what I just said is Bible you just don’t want to believe the truth.

5. Just because you think you have key words like holy etc. you are harmonizing with Daniel 9 you are badly mistaken.
You are just using them to prove your position not the real context.

6. I have to go to bed but needless to say it’s a shame you are falsifying and slandering biblical truth that I gave plus proper exegesis. You are so proud you think no one is right about anything and you know better than that.
You couldn’t even get 1 Corinthians 15:31 right and you wouldn’t answer to it after I proved you were wrong. Instead, you made an excuse to cop out on because it wasn’t the topic.
The point was to see if you could rightly divide the word or not and of course you failed.
But you won’t admit that.
You can quote scripture till the cows come home but that isn’t going to help you be right because your context is wrong and your time factor is wrong. Goodnight Jerry Kelso

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1 Sorry, but you are in left field.
Nobody argued that the New Covenant didn’t happen in Daniel 9-26 at Calvary when he was cut off or in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
But the New Covenant was not made with the whole nation of Israel in the early church under the KoH program.
They rejected that in Jesus ministry Matthew 23:37-39.
Jesus said the KoH time wasn’t for them to know Acts 1:6-7.
Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8:7-12 are the same and have not been fulfilled.

2. Israel the nation is backslidden today because the time of the gentiles has not come in Romans 11:25.

3. No one is arguing that there is not a complete theocracy with Christ as in Israel’s day. But there will be in the millennial kingdom for Christ for all Israel will be saved Romans 11:26.
The church will be kings, priests and rulers in the kingdom to come Revelation 5:9-10.
Israel will be saved by the New Covenant at the end of the tribulation and will rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4
Rulership positions will be different between Israel and the church in the KoH reign on earth.
All will be one spiritually under the New Covenant. Christ will be the ultimate potentate on earth.

4. Now if you don’t believe what I just said is Bible you just don’t want to believe the truth.

5. Just because you think you have key words like holy etc. you are harmonizing with Daniel 9 you are badly mistaken.
You are just using them to prove your position not the real context.

6. I have to go to bed but needless to say it’s a shame you are falsifying and slandering biblical truth that I gave plus proper exegesis. You are so proud you think no one is right about anything and you know better than that.
You couldn’t even get 1 Corinthians 15:31 right and you wouldn’t answer to it after I proved you were wrong. Instead, you made an excuse to cop out on because it wasn’t the topic.
The point was to see if you could rightly divide the word or not and of course you failed.
But you won’t admit that.
You can quote scripture till the cows come home but that isn’t going to help you be right because your context is wrong and your time factor is wrong. Goodnight Jerry Kelso

If the cross is not enough for Israel then they are damned and doomed for all eternity. But salvation is open to them today in the exact same way as it is for us. It is through the one all-sufficient sacrifice for sin on the cross 2000 years ago alone that men are saved. That is it! If they embrace the cross they will go to heaven, if reject they it they will go to hell. It is that simple! There is no other hope!

Revelation 13:8 tells us that Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” He was predestined to come into this world as a substitutionary sacrifice, without which no man could be saved. 1 Peter 1:19 confirms that Christ was “a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” There was a predetermined blueprint that Christ had to fulfil – He did perfectly.

Calvary was an important part of God's Sovereign plan for fallen-man. Our salvation was secured in eternity because God lives and works in eternity. It was experientially realized in time, because man is born and lives in time. Christ performed the Father's will for our lives - by dying for us. The Holy Spirit applied the Father's will to our lives – by convicting us and regenerating us.

Dispensationalists argue that it is all about the bloodline, and they are right, however, they focus in on the wrong bloodline. They choose the natural bloodline of Abraham instead of the ongoing blood atonement system God has provided as a means of redemption for the penitent sinners. The blood covenant provides a spiritual covering for all those who have entered into a personal experiential covenant relationship with God. This whole arrangement began in the Garden, continued through their righteous son Abel, and continues still today through the cross-work.

The Old Testament prophets predicted the manner of Messiah’s ministry and the focus of His earthly mission. They foretold the time that He would come. They described His assignment and detailed His accomplishments. They depicted a suffering servant coming to redeem Israel from their sin. They portrayed the resistance He would experience. They forecast His rejection and the cross.

The angel of the Lord summed up Christ’s mission on earth when he spoke to Joseph in a dream about the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:20–21: “Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Christ had a task to fulfil and goals to achieve. Everything He encountered and when He encountered it was part of a preordained plan for Him. That plan captivated His whole time on this earth from the cradle to the cross. Jesus testified in Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Jesus was a man on a mission. He came to help fallen man. 1 Timothy 1:15 declares, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.”

Christ actually came to rescue us and save us from our sin. He knew our predicament and He came to help. He came for the broken, the hurting, the broken, the confused and the lost. He came to rescue people in a fallen state. Jesus tells us in John 3:16-17: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

When Jesus came 2000 years ago He was on a mission of love from start to finish. Heaven couldn’t have given mankind a greater gift. His whole life was love: every word He said and every deed He did was saturated in love. His death was the final and eternal seal of that love pertaining to His ministry on this earth.

Those old covenant saints that had eyes to see fully grasped the spiritual assignment of the Messiah Christ. They knew that He was coming to redeem His people from their sins. The song of Mary, the Magnificat, shows that, connecting Christ’s birth to the fulfilment of His mission, to save His people. Mary praises Him: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” (Luke 1:46-47).

John the Baptist’s father Zacharias, who was filled with the Holy Ghost, prophesied in Luke 1:68-75: “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.”

The elect remnant of Israel had a spiritual awareness of Christ’s mission. Redemption was the central aspect of Messiah’s mission to earth. Israel needed the sin question addressed more than any other issue. This was man’s greatest affliction. Right was His birth redemption was the great spiritual assignment laid upon His shoulders.

The coming redeemer was anticipated by Simeon who faithfully waited for His appearing in Luke 2:30-35, where he acknowledged: “For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel … Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

Redemption was no secondary thought. It was no Plan B. It was the duty Jesus came to realize and He accomplished it perfectly. Anna, the prophetess, announced the same in Luke 2:38: “she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.” Obviously, those who knew the Old Testament Scriptures, and were blessed with eyes to see, were fully aware that redemption was at the forefront of the Messiah’s ministry. The enlightened old covenant saints awaited the promised redeemer with great anticipation. This was central to their faith and necessary for their eternal redemption.

The language of Messianic fulfilment is written throughout the New Testament pages. John the Baptist introduced Christ in John 1:31, as “he that was to be … made manifest to Israel.” Simeon testified He was the “consolation of Israel” (Luke 2:25). Paul describes Him in Acts 28:20 as “the hope of Israel.” He is the eternal fulfilment of the vision and prophecy.

John the Baptist introduced Christ in John 1:29-30: “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.”

John the Baptist was familiar with Old Testament prophecy, as that is all he had. He recognized that animal sacrifices were coming to an end because Jesus Christ, the ultimate and perfect sacrifice, had arrived. He was the desire of every true Israelite from the beginning.

Christ’s focus and His mission were to redeem His people. This was central to His Gospel message. He told the disciples in Mark 8:27-31 (paralleling Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22): “And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.”

Christ perfectly succeeded in His mission. Contrary to false Dispy teaching, Jesus did not come to set up a literal physical earthly Davidic kingdom, He came to die for our sins. This is another of countless fallacies that are attached to Dispensationalism.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
3. No one is arguing that there is not a complete theocracy with Christ as in Israel’s day. But there will be in the millennial kingdom for Christ for all Israel will be saved Romans 11:26.
The church will be kings, priests and rulers in the kingdom to come Revelation 5:9-10.
Israel will be saved by the New Covenant at the end of the tribulation and will rule and reign at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4
Rulership positions will be different between Israel and the church in the KoH reign on earth.
All will be one spiritually under the New Covenant. Christ will be the ultimate potentate on earth.

This whole Premil depiction will never happen. It is unbiblical and fanciful. The Premil new earth is a bipolar age of justice and injustice, deliverance and bondage, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, perfection and sin, glorification and corruption, sin and sinlessness, immortality and mortality, peace and harmony and war and terror.

Guojing · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
If the cross is not enough for Israel then they are damned and doomed for all eternity. But salvation is open to them today in the exact same way as it is for us. It is through the one all-sufficient sacrifice for sin on the cross 2000 years ago alone that men are saved. That is it! If they embrace the cross they will go to heaven, if reject they it they will go to hell. It is that simple! There is no other hope!

Revelation 13:8 tells us that Christ was “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” He was predestined to come into this world as a substitutionary sacrifice, without which no man could be saved. 1 Peter 1:19 confirms that Christ was “a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” There was a predetermined blueprint that Christ had to fulfil – He did perfectly.

Calvary was an important part of God's Sovereign plan for fallen-man. Our salvation was secured in eternity because God lives and works in eternity. It was experientially realized in time, because man is born and lives in time. Christ performed the Father's will for our lives - by dying for us. The Holy Spirit applied the Father's will to our lives – by convicting us and regenerating us.

Dispensationalists argue that it is all about the bloodline, and they are right, however, they focus in on the wrong bloodline. They choose the natural bloodline of Abraham instead of the ongoing blood atonement system God has provided as a means of redemption for the penitent sinners. The blood covenant provides a spiritual covering for all those who have entered into a personal experiential covenant relationship with God. This whole arrangement began in the Garden, continued through their righteous son Abel, and continues still today through the cross-work.

The Old Testament prophets predicted the manner of Messiah’s ministry and the focus of His earthly mission. They foretold the time that He would come. They described His assignment and detailed His accomplishments. They depicted a suffering servant coming to redeem Israel from their sin. They portrayed the resistance He would experience. They forecast His rejection and the cross.

The angel of the Lord summed up Christ’s mission on earth when he spoke to Joseph in a dream about the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:20–21: “Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Christ had a task to fulfil and goals to achieve. Everything He encountered and when He encountered it was part of a preordained plan for Him. That plan captivated His whole time on this earth from the cradle to the cross. Jesus testified in Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Jesus was a man on a mission. He came to help fallen man. 1 Timothy 1:15 declares, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.”

Christ actually came to rescue us and save us from our sin. He knew our predicament and He came to help. He came for the broken, the hurting, the broken, the confused and the lost. He came to rescue people in a fallen state. Jesus tells us in John 3:16-17: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

When Jesus came 2000 years ago He was on a mission of love from start to finish. Heaven couldn’t have given mankind a greater gift. His whole life was love: every word He said and every deed He did was saturated in love. His death was the final and eternal seal of that love pertaining to His ministry on this earth.

Those old covenant saints that had eyes to see fully grasped the spiritual assignment of the Messiah Christ. They knew that He was coming to redeem His people from their sins. The song of Mary, the Magnificat, shows that, connecting Christ’s birth to the fulfilment of His mission, to save His people. Mary praises Him: “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” (Luke 1:46-47).

John the Baptist’s father Zacharias, who was filled with the Holy Ghost, prophesied in Luke 1:68-75: “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.”

The elect remnant of Israel had a spiritual awareness of Christ’s mission. Redemption was the central aspect of Messiah’s mission to earth. Israel needed the sin question addressed more than any other issue. This was man’s greatest affliction. Right was His birth redemption was the great spiritual assignment laid upon His shoulders.

The coming redeemer was anticipated by Simeon who faithfully waited for His appearing in Luke 2:30-35, where he acknowledged: “For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel … Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

Redemption was no secondary thought. It was no Plan B. It was the duty Jesus came to realize and He accomplished it perfectly. Anna, the prophetess, announced the same in Luke 2:38: “she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.” Obviously, those who knew the Old Testament Scriptures, and were blessed with eyes to see, were fully aware that redemption was at the forefront of the Messiah’s ministry. The enlightened old covenant saints awaited the promised redeemer with great anticipation. This was central to their faith and necessary for their eternal redemption.

The language of Messianic fulfilment is written throughout the New Testament pages. John the Baptist introduced Christ in John 1:31, as “he that was to be … made manifest to Israel.” Simeon testified He was the “consolation of Israel” (Luke 2:25). Paul describes Him in Acts 28:20 as “the hope of Israel.” He is the eternal fulfilment of the vision and prophecy.

John the Baptist introduced Christ in John 1:29-30: “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.”

John the Baptist was familiar with Old Testament prophecy, as that is all he had. He recognized that animal sacrifices were coming to an end because Jesus Christ, the ultimate and perfect sacrifice, had arrived. He was the desire of every true Israelite from the beginning.

Christ’s focus and His mission were to redeem His people. This was central to His Gospel message. He told the disciples in Mark 8:27-31 (paralleling Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22): “And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.”

Christ perfectly succeeded in His mission. Contrary to false Dispy teaching, Jesus did not come to set up a literal physical earthly Davidic kingdom, He came to die for our sins. This is another of countless fallacies that are attached to Dispensationalism.

So do you happen to see a wolf lying with a lamb now, as in Isaiah 11:6, or is it also spiritual to you?

jerry kelso · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
This whole Premil depiction will never happen. It is unbiblical and fanciful. The Premil new earth is a bipolar age of justice and injustice, deliverance and bondage, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, perfection and sin, glorification and corruption, sin and sinlessness, immortality and mortality, peace and harmony and war and terror.

sovereigngrace,

1. All that is your opinion.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 proves you wrong.
Why do you want to twist God’s word around?
Christ the son has to rule and reign on earth till his enemies are under his enemies under his feet.
If this was spiritual only it would have been fulfilled already because of Calvary and we wouldn’t have the potential to sin. We would literally be ruling and reigning with Christ on earth and death would already be done away with. The tribulation would be over withe and the son would have given the kingdom back to the father so God Could Be all in all.
Obviously, you don’t understand what the KOH and KoG message that Jesus taught me as about.
Do you believe Jesus taught the New Covenant to Israel under the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God message? Jerry Kelso

Biblewriter · Dec 27, 2019

This is

sovereigngrace said:
This is just opinion! You are applying Pretrib thinking to those texts, without actually proving that Rev 4:1 is an actual rapture of the Church. Everything else is built upon that unproven premise.

I believe Revelation is not a chronological unfolding of end-time events, but is a series of recapitulations or retelling of events that culminate in the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 6-22 consists of a number of figurative prophetic parallels (seven in total) revealing the overall battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. They relate, like every other New Testament book, to the period running between the first and Second Advents. Significantly, the conclusion of each parallel terminates with a record of the glorious Second Advent, which includes the rescue of His saint and the final destruction of the wicked.

Parallels are simply different camera views of the same corresponding intra-Advent period which look at different aspects of the great battle between darkness and light.

I will focus in on the end of each cycle that I have proposed as time and space doesn’t allow me to perform a complete exposition of Revelation.

CYCLE 1 (received on Patmos)

Seven Churches (Ch 2-3).

Although addressed to 7 local churches to sort out local problems. The constant theme of the Coming Christ and His kingdom pervades throughout.

CYCLE 2 (received in heaven)

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

The seventh seal is silence in response to the destruction of the world in the sixth seal.

Revelation 6:12-7:17 gives us the detail of the sixth seal. The first part of the seal (that which is contained within Revelation 6) is given over to describing the wrath of ‘the day of the Lord’ and His judgment upon the wicked. Whereas, the second part of the seal (which takes up the whole of Revelation 7) is given over to describing that which relates to the elect of God on the day of the Lord – the day of His Second Coming.

The first aspect, is outlined in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Before the aforementioned destruction is implemented the Lord has to instigate an important deliverance. We find this in the second part of the sixth seal found in Revelation 7:1-4,which says, “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

The awful destruction outlined in Revelation 6 CANNOT be perfected until the righteous are totally and completely saved.

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 3 (received in heaven)

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8:6-10:7)

Previously in Scripture we have learnt that the coming of the Lord is ushered in by the sound of the trumpet. By clear implication, if the last trump relates to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ there must be others that precede it. Revelation seems to support this weighty inference. Moreover, the seven trumpets outlined in Revelation chapters 8 to 10 are the ONLY set of prophetic trumpets in Scripture.

Revelation 10:1-11 declares, describing the seventh trumpet, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.”

The symbolism and authority surrounding this great heavenly angel proves beyond a doubt that it is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ and a picture of His glorious Second Coming.

It continues, “And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

The End!!!

The King James Version interprets the passage correctly:

“chronos ouketi estai”

time - no longer – there shall be

The interpretation of these Greek words in this passage is in clear and absolute agreement with their usage everywhere else in Scripture. Those who interpret it otherwise probably do so to explain away the undoubted finality of the Second Coming.

Anyway, the whole import of the rest of the passage perfectly confirms the all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of god should be finished.”

Revelation 11:15-17 makes reference to the seventh angel with the last trump, again being in complete agreement with consistent New Testament teaching (including Revelation 10) on this single, final, all-consummating nature of the Second Advent, saying, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.”

The next verse, verse 18 then reveals how the Second Advent ushers in the general judgment, saying, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest (1) give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest (2) destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

The End!!!

The unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet proves beyond doubt that it is the last trump - the final trumpet sound for all mankind. “The kingdoms of this world” have finally “become the kingdoms of our lord, and of his Christ” and “he shall reign” NOT for 1000 years as some would have us believe but “for ever and ever.”

CYCLE 4 (received in heaven)

The Church and its onslaught from the devil (Ch 12) including a parallel view of the beast’s (the world anti-Christ system – intra-advent) persecution of the elect (Ch 13) and the simultaneous joy of the redeemed (Ch 14) in heaven (Ch 12-14).

Revelation 14:14-20 says, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; For the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud (Christ) thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 5 (received in heaven)

Seven Vials (Ch 16)

If our supposition is to fit perfectly, the final vial, in keeping with the final trumpet, must be an unmistakable description of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and the rapture of the saints. Similarly, it must also be a solemn picture of the outpouring of God’s wrath upon the wicked and the end of the world.

Revelation 16:17-21 declares, “And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, ‘It is done’ (or Gegonen). And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.”

The End!!!

CYCLE 6 (received in heaven)

Babylon (17-19)

John’s attention is then brought to wrath aspect of the day of the Lord. Firstly, we see the heavenly army of God described. Verses 11- say, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (the Word of God),that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall poimaino (or ‘shepherd’) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Revelation 19:17-21 continues, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant (or those left behind) were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

The End!!!

Those who hold the Premillennialist position often advance this passage as support for their mistaken view that Christ is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years. However, the word poimaino in this reading which is rendered “rule” in the AV, carries the consistent meaning of Shepherd and shepherding in Scripture.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have attacked His sheep. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

CYCLE 7 (received in heaven)

The figurative binding of Satan from the cross and the victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22).

Here we have a great spiritual assault upon the Church just prior to the end. In keeping with the rest of Scripture, fire comes down from heaven and devours the wicked.

Revelation 20:8-10 declares, “And [Satan] shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

Revelation 20:11-15 says, “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

CONCLUSION

I don’t believe the evidence of a series of similar parallels taking us up to the Second Advent (the day of God’s wrath) and the end of the world (when time shall undoubtedly be no more) is overwhelming. This pattern happens repeatedly through the New Testament. Also, they are clearly intra-advent.

I don’t believe any open-minded objective Bible student could arrive at any conclusion other than the fact that Revelation is a number of similar parallels taking us up to the Second Advent (the day of God’s wrath) and the end of the world (when time shall undoubtedly be no more). This pattern happens repeatedly through the New Testament. Also, they are clearly intra-advent.

This is basically the error of Historicism, which was disproved long ago.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
Obviously, you don’t understand what the KOH and KoG message that Jesus taught me as about.
Do you believe Jesus taught the New Covenant to Israel under the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God message? Jerry Kelso

What are you talking about? An elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

The term “the kingdom of God” refers to the One from whom it originates, whereas, the term “the kingdom of heaven” describes the place where it is centred. Notwithstanding, they both unequivocally allude to the one glorious eternal kingdom and Almighty God who sovereignly reigns from heaven. The evidence to back up such a supposition is absolute, and can be supported by a wealth of proof in the Gospels. These terms being frequently used and interchanged in (1) the same reference, (2) similar references, and (3) identical references, to describe this Divine spiritual Kingdom.

1. The same passage

Matthew records Christ using both terms in the one passage when describing His Kingdom: “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (19:23-24).

These two terms are here used in the same context to describe the same kingly realm. The subject of this reading is the difficulty that the rich have in entering the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom of God). Anyone trying to base a theology on the difference between the two synonymous terms is strongly rebutted by this clear reading.

2. Similar passages

Alluding to the simplicity of the faith, Christ made similar statements, whilst in different circumstances, to explain the same eternal kingdom. Once again, He interchanges the terms ‘the kingdom of God’ and ‘the kingdom of heaven’ to describe His everlasting spiritual Kingdom.

(a) In Matthew 18:1-4, Christ is seen rebuking the disciples who were foolishly debating who were the greatest among them. In verse 2, and in response to their dispute, we see Christ calling “a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them.”

The Master then said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

In a similar passage in Mark 10:15, Christ refers to the kingdom whilst once again rebuking the disciples, only this time it was for trying to stop the little children coming unto Himself. Only, in this encounter, He employs the matching term ‘the kingdom of God’, saying, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”

The circumstances may have been slightly different yet the message was still the same. Nowhere in Christ teaching is there the slightest licence to make any distinction between these terms. Again we find the kingdom of God to be synonymous with the kingdom of heaven!

(b) Christ, teaching on the parable of the sower declares, in Matthew 13:24-26, 30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.” Christ concluded, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

In a similar, yet distinct passage, in Mark 4:25-29, Christ taught the disciples of the natural law of the harvest, saying, “he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

3. Parallel passages

This teaching is completely exposed by analysing, and comparing, the apostles record of the very same teaching on the very same occasion. There, the apostles testimony of the corresponding instances and same utterances of the Saviour are interchanged between the term “the kingdom of heaven” and the term “the kingdom of God.” Thus, clearly showing that the two terms are synonymous.

The following are some examples.

Example A

We see in different places that the kingdom is said to be “at hand.”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:14-15 records, “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”

Again, the terms ‘kingdom of God’ and ‘kingdom of heaven’ are interchanged in these passages while describing the one spiritual kingdom.

Example B

Jesus said, in Matthew 11:12, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven ‘suffereth violence’ (or biazo), and the violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

Example C

Matthew 10:5-14 records the disciples commission, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them…as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Luke 9:1-6 records, “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.”

Example D

After expounding the parable of the sower, the twelve disciples asked Christ why He explained His teaching in parables. Matthew and Mark then record the Lord’s response.

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:11, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:11, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.”

Example E

Matthew’s account of the beatitudes in 5:3-6, records Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Luke’s account of Christ’s sermon, in Luke 6:20-21, records, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.”

Example F

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:31, “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:30-31, “Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth.”

Example G

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:33, “the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Jesus said, in Luke 13:20-21, “Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Example H

Whilst we have previously quoted similar incidents where Christ advanced the same teaching on the subject of children and the kingdom (proving how the two terms are interchangeable), the following quotes are made of the same occasion.

Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Example I

Speaking of the future consummation of the Kingdom, Jesus said, in Matthew 8:11, “And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke’s account, in chapter 13:28-29, records, “ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.”

CONCLUSION

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

Biblewriter said:
This is

This is basically the error of Historicism, which was disproved long ago.

I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain!

jerry kelso · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
What are you talking about? An elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

The term “the kingdom of God” refers to the One from whom it originates, whereas, the term “the kingdom of heaven” describes the place where it is centred. Notwithstanding, they both unequivocally allude to the one glorious eternal kingdom and Almighty God who sovereignly reigns from heaven. The evidence to back up such a supposition is absolute, and can be supported by a wealth of proof in the Gospels. These terms being frequently used and interchanged in (1) the same reference, (2) similar references, and (3) identical references, to describe this Divine spiritual Kingdom.

1. The same passage

Matthew records Christ using both terms in the one passage when describing His Kingdom: “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (19:23-24).

These two terms are here used in the same context to describe the same kingly realm. The subject of this reading is the difficulty that the rich have in entering the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom of God). Anyone trying to base a theology on the difference between the two synonymous terms is strongly rebutted by this clear reading.

2. Similar passages

Alluding to the simplicity of the faith, Christ made similar statements, whilst in different circumstances, to explain the same eternal kingdom. Once again, He interchanges the terms ‘the kingdom of God’ and ‘the kingdom of heaven’ to describe His everlasting spiritual Kingdom.

(a) In Matthew 18:1-4, Christ is seen rebuking the disciples who were foolishly debating who were the greatest among them. In verse 2, and in response to their dispute, we see Christ calling “a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them.”

The Master then said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

In a similar passage in Mark 10:15, Christ refers to the kingdom whilst once again rebuking the disciples, only this time it was for trying to stop the little children coming unto Himself. Only, in this encounter, He employs the matching term ‘the kingdom of God’, saying, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”

The circumstances may have been slightly different yet the message was still the same. Nowhere in Christ teaching is there the slightest licence to make any distinction between these terms. Again we find the kingdom of God to be synonymous with the kingdom of heaven!

(b) Christ, teaching on the parable of the sower declares, in Matthew 13:24-26, 30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.” Christ concluded, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

In a similar, yet distinct passage, in Mark 4:25-29, Christ taught the disciples of the natural law of the harvest, saying, “he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

3. Parallel passages

This teaching is completely exposed by analysing, and comparing, the apostles record of the very same teaching on the very same occasion. There, the apostles testimony of the corresponding instances and same utterances of the Saviour are interchanged between the term “the kingdom of heaven” and the term “the kingdom of God.” Thus, clearly showing that the two terms are synonymous.

The following are some examples.

Example A

We see in different places that the kingdom is said to be “at hand.”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:14-15 records, “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”

Again, the terms ‘kingdom of God’ and ‘kingdom of heaven’ are interchanged in these passages while describing the one spiritual kingdom.

Example B

Jesus said, in Matthew 11:12, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven ‘suffereth violence’ (or biazo), and the violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

Example C

Matthew 10:5-14 records the disciples commission, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them…as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Luke 9:1-6 records, “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.”

Example D

After expounding the parable of the sower, the twelve disciples asked Christ why He explained His teaching in parables. Matthew and Mark then record the Lord’s response.

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:11, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:11, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.”

Example E

Matthew’s account of the beatitudes in 5:3-6, records Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Luke’s account of Christ’s sermon, in Luke 6:20-21, records, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.”

Example F

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:31, “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:30-31, “Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth.”

Example G

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:33, “the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Jesus said, in Luke 13:20-21, “Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Example H

Whilst we have previously quoted similar incidents where Christ advanced the same teaching on the subject of children and the kingdom (proving how the two terms are interchangeable), the following quotes are made of the same occasion.

Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Example I

Speaking of the future consummation of the Kingdom, Jesus said, in Matthew 8:11, “And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke’s account, in chapter 13:28-29, records, “ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.”

CONCLUSION

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

sovereigngrace,

1. You didn’t answer the other question, do you think Jesus taught the Old Covenant or New Covenant? Jerry Kelso

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1. You didn’t answer the other question, do you think Jesus taught the Old Covenant or New Covenant? Jerry Kelso

Can you give me time to reply? At least I try to answer in detail what you allege. Can you address what I wrote, which you ignored? You totally avoided my post!!!!

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1. You didn’t answer the other question, do you think Jesus taught the Old Covenant or New Covenant? Jerry Kelso

Christ came to fulfill the old covenant; He came to introduce the new covenant.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1. All that is your opinion.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 proves you wrong.
Why do you want to twist God’s word around?
Christ the son has to rule and reign on earth till his enemies are under his enemies under his feet.
If this was spiritual only it would have been fulfilled already because of Calvary and we wouldn’t have the potential to sin. We would literally be ruling and reigning with Christ on earth and death would already be done away with. The tribulation would be over withe and the son would have given the kingdom back to the father so God Could Be all in all.
Obviously, you don’t understand what the KOH and KoG message that Jesus taught me as about.
Do you believe Jesus taught the New Covenant to Israel under the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God message? Jerry Kelso

I'm glad you brought up 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. This is one of many strong Amil passages in Scripture, showing a climatic return of Christ. From your perspective: where is your future millennium mentioned here? Where is it even hinted? Nowhere! You have to insert your future thousand years where it does not exist or belong. Again, you base your theology on silence.

Paul shows that Christ’s return spells the termination of death and rebellion in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, saying: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when ‘he shall have delivered up’ (present active subjunctive) the kingdom to God, even the Father; when ‘he shall have put down’ (aorist active subjunctive) all rule and all authority and power. For (or gar or seeing) he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be (hupotageé) subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the Second Coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Here, in extremely explicit detail Christ is shown to have secured the final downfall of “all rule and all authority and power.” Death is destroyed at the Second Coming, the time here denoted as “the end.” As Jesus comes and rescues ‘the just’ in the twinkling of an eye He also destroys ‘the unjust’. This passage is distinctly a description of the end. Those “in Adam all die.” The Second Coming is shown to be termination of all rebellion. It is the time “when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." But equally, “in Christ shall all be made alive.” This is the time “when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father.” It is clear that everything is tied up at the end (“His Coming”).

The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.

The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish.

This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.

After telling us that Christ’s Coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption (phthora or decay) inherit incorruption (aphthrsia or unending existence). Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

This passage closely mirrors Romans 8, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about “the bondage of corruption” being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

Guojing said:
So do you happen to see a wolf lying with a lamb now, as in Isaiah 11:6, or is it also spiritual to you?

It symbolically depicts the peace that Christ has introduced through the new covenant and which will be literally realized in the new heavens and new earth. The one thing it does not speak of is some supposed sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted future millennial kingdom.

Paul draws several of the Old Testament prophecies relating to the removing of the global deception upon the Gentiles (ethnos) together in Romans 15:8-12 and shows how this began with the life, death and resurrection of Christ and the subsequent evangelism of the early Church. Significantly, Isaiah 11 is one of them. He declares, “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written (in 1 Samuel 22:50), For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith (in Psalm 18:49), Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again (in Deuteronomy 32:43), Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again (in Isaiah 11:10), Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.”

Isaiah clearly relates to this current age.

Moreover, Romans 9:27-28 plainly declares, referring to Isaiah 10, “Esaias also crieth concerning Israel (in Isaiah 10:20-22), Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.”

jerry kelso · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
Christ came to fulfill the old covenant; He came to introduce the new covenant.

sovereigngrace,

1. You didn’t answer the question.
Did Jesus teach the old covenant or the new covenant? Jerry Kelso

Biblewriter · Dec 27, 2019

sovereigngrace said:
I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain!

Historicism is the doctrine that most of Bible prophecy has been fulfilled during the many centuries between the time of Christ and the present. It differs from Preterism in that Preterism thinks that most of Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
Both notions require an assumption that the many explicitly stated prophecies in the Bible do not actually mean what they so plainly say.

sovereigngrace · Dec 27, 2019

jerry kelso said:
sovereigngrace,

1. You didn’t answer the question.
Did Jesus teach the old covenant or the new covenant? Jerry Kelso

He kept the law, He fulfilled the law, but preached the kingdom of God. This kingdom was entered spiritually by faith. It was not of this world, like the Premil theory.

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