Ban the Bible

stevevw · Dec 24, 2019

1Reformedman said:
The bible should be written on the tablet of your heart this way no matter what society may try to do with the written form they cant take it from you because God's word will never return void. It will go out and do what he sent it to do and it will accomplish it.

I think Gods word is in our hearts in the form of His laws. Peoples conscience tells them Gods laws and they can either follow this or deny it.

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

But His word also exposes peoples hearts. That is why some may react to it and want to kill the messenger as it represents the truth and to quote a popular movie line "some people cannot handle the truth".
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
2 Corinthians 3:3
And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

stevevw · Dec 24, 2019

aiki said:
If the present trends continue, it's quite possible. The Bible is already disapproved of in leftist "progressive" (aka socialist) circles. It seems they've had a very significant influence upon younger folk especially who, if they aren't persuaded to see the lunacy and incredible danger lurking in socialist ideology, may shape a society where the next Stalin or Chairman Mao ascends to political power and crushes, not only Christians, but eventually all those for whom they take a dislike.

Yes I agree. It seems this is happening in universities which will produce the next generation of academics that may lead nations and the world. I should not refer to some as academics as universities are suppose to be places of science and fact, debate and encouraging diverse thought. But it seems that only certain ideologies are welcome and any opposing ideas are shouted down. This is hypocritical considering these are the people who demand equal rights and tolerance of those who are different.

People may not like what they hear from some bible verses or others who have opposing views but the point is the willingness and tolerance to allow those different views in the first place is what matters. If we ban all views that we do not like then we would lose our ability to invent and discover and progress would end making it a uniform and dreary place where we are told how to think and have no choice in the matter.

stevevw · Dec 24, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20

I posted this quote because we are truly living in days such as this.
Blessings

stevevw · Dec 24, 2019

RDKirk said:
If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you....They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. -- John 15

Archivist · Dec 25, 2019

There is nothing wrong with an employer banning the posting of Bible verses. Employers have that right. The government, on the other hand, cannot ban the Bible. That would violate the Constitution.

stevevw · Dec 25, 2019

Archivist said:
There is nothing wrong with an employer banning the posting of Bible verses. Employers have that right. The government, on the other hand, cannot ban the Bible. That would violate the Constitution.

But can an employer ban someone from expressing and posting bible verses in their private time away from work. I remember in the same sex marriage vote some corporations were promoting their position and were more or less saying that all their employees had to follow suit. They do not represent everyone and they are not practicing what their preach in allowing diversity of views. I think this corporate overreach where businesses with a lot of sway and power are getting involved in politics and taking certain positions and becoming the thought police for others.

Businesses should stay out of politics as they do not represent the people that work for them. It often comes down to one person with a lot of power and sway expressing their personal views which can impact others opinions and sway outcomes. They can cause those who work for them to feel uncomfortable about expressing their views without feeling there will be consequences. This is a form of dictatorship that seems to be happening as part of social engineering.

Archivist · Dec 25, 2019

stevevw said:
But can an employer ban someone from expressing and posting bible verses in their private time away from work. I remember in the same sex marriage vote some corporations were promoting their position and were more or less saying that all their employees had to follow suit. They do not represent everyone and they are not practicing what their preach in allowing diversity of views. I think this corporate overreach where businesses with a lot of sway and power are getting involved in politics and taking certain positions and becoming the thought police for others.

Businesses should stay out of politics as they do not represent the people that work for them. It often comes down to one person with a lot of power and sway expressing their personal views which can impact others opinions and sway outcomes. They can cause those who work for them to feel uncomfortable about expressing their views without feeling there will be consequences. This is a form of dictatorship that seems to be happening as part of social engineering.

An employer can prohibit employees from posting a Bible verse as their tag line on corporate email. But if the employee has a private email account they can do what they want so long as what they are doing isn’t illegal (like posting child inappropriate content) unless there is something in their employment contract that prohibits them from doing such things.

An employer can prohibit employees from distributing campaign material at work. They cannot prohibit them from posting a campaign sign at their home or from voting for a particular candidate.

What same sex marriage vote? That was decided by the Supreme Court. I think the high court made the right call.

stevevw · Dec 25, 2019

Archivist said:
An employer can prohibit employees from posting a Bible verse as their tag line on corporate email. But if the employee has a private email account they can do what they want so long as what they are doing isn’t illegal (like posting child inappropriate content).

An employer can prohibit employees from distributing campaign material at work. They cannot prohibit them from posting a campaign sign at their home or from voting for a particular candidate.

What same sex marriage vote? That was decided by the Supreme Court. I think the high court made the right call.

Sorry I am from Australia and we had a referendum/vote on changing the marriage act to allow same sex relationships. I thought this was a fair way to do it as it put such an important change to the people to decide. The same sex yes vote won but during the campaign some corporations were promoting the yes vote which I though was wrong as they can wield a lot of influence and they really should remain neutral as they should represent all views as their employees and shareholders have many different views.

I agree that while at work an employee should not promote their personal views. But there are exemptions for some organisations such as religious ones where the organisation may promote a certain belief that is deemed important to their ethos and integrity. Some non-religious organisations can be the same like political parties and non-profit organisations like animal rights or green peace for example. They do not want to have people promoting the opposite of what they believe. But apart from that any business should not discriminate as most jobs are based on performance and qualifications regardless of a persons beliefs or views.

1Reformedman · Dec 25, 2019

stevevw said:
I think Gods word is in our hearts in the form of His laws. Peoples conscience tells them Gods laws and they can either follow this or deny it.

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

But His word also exposes peoples hearts. That is why some may react to it and want to kill the messenger as it represents the truth and to quote a popular movie line "some people cannot handle the truth".
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
2 Corinthians 3:3
And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

I disagree with your synopsis. The lost cannot understand spiritual things period and there is not a single command in all of the world or heaven that contains within it your natural moral ability to obey it.

The Romans 2 reference is about knowing the difference between right and wrong. If you read Romans 8:7-8 its tells us that the lost one is not subject to the law of God nor indeed can he be.

Yes the word of God exposes the heart but that doesn't mean it automatically convicts the heart through the power of the HS just because one listens to it. Not everyone who listens (notice I didnt say "hears") to the preaching of the word is converted and its not because they reject it. Its because God saves some and leaves others in bondage to their sin.

2 Cor. 3 was written to believers. Oh and when you read Hebrews you should read it in conjunction with the law.

Archivist · Dec 25, 2019

stevevw said:
Sorry I am from Australia and we had a referendum/vote on changing the marriage act to allow same sex relationships. I thought this was a fair way to do it as it put such an important change to the people to decide. The same sex yes vote won but during the campaign some corporations were promoting the yes vote which I though was wrong as they can wield a lot of influence and they really should remain neutral as they should represent all views as their employees and shareholders have many different views.

I agree that while at work an employee should not promote their personal views. But there are exemptions for some organisations such as religious ones where the organisation may promote a certain belief that is deemed important to their ethos and integrity. Some non-religious organisations can be the same like political parties and non-profit organisations like animal rights or green peace for example. They do not want to have people promoting the opposite of what they believe. But apart from that any business should not discriminate as most jobs are based on performance and qualifications regardless of a persons beliefs or views.

Sorry, I forget that many on here are not from the US. Our national Constitution doesn’t allow for referendum although some state Constitutions do on state matters.

lismore · Dec 25, 2019

stevevw said:
Will we see the bible itself banned from the public forum.

Yes. But real hate is to know the truth and not share it with someone. We need to share the truth of God's word with homosexuals and Trans persons so that they have the opportunity for salvation. God Bless

stevevw · Dec 26, 2019

1Reformedman said:
I disagree with your synopsis. The lost cannot understand spiritual things period and there is not a single command in all of the world or heaven that contains within it your natural moral ability to obey it.

I am not saying that we need to understand spiritual things to have the free will to choose or reject God. God desires that all people should be saved. Therefore everyone must have that chance to follow God. But as the bible says some choose not to and their hearts become hardened to God.
Our eternal destiny lies in our own hands so therefore all must have the chance. God does not send anyone to hell because they were destined from the start. We send ourselves to hell by choosing to reject Christ.
Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? The Craig-Bradley Debate | Reasonable Faith

Plus I think Non-Christians can be moral as this is something within all of us. But it is not good deeds alone that makes us saved.

The Romans 2 reference is about knowing the difference between right and wrong. If you read Romans 8:7-8 its tells us that the lost one is not subject to the law of God nor indeed can he be.

If we know the difference between right and wrong in our hearts then that implies we knowingly sin. If we know of Gods laws and that he is the law giver then we must come to a cross roads at some point where we can choose to submit to God as a sinner. It is this point that I believe all people have the chance to accept or reject Jesus.

Yes the word of God exposes the heart but that doesn't mean it automatically convicts the heart through the power of the HS just because one listens to it. Not everyone who listens (notice I didn't say "hears") to the preaching of the word is converted and its not because they reject it. Its because God saves some and leaves others in bondage to their sin.

So you are saying some people did not have a chance in the first place to be saved. They were predestined to end up in hell no matter what. I am no bible scholar but somehow I don't think that is correct. God would not send people to hell without a chance to accept or reject him. As the bible says God desires that all should be saved and than implies that all have a chance to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I think when some do not hear the word their hearts have already been hardened to God. I don't believe that people cannot hear God because they are not capable of hearing Gods spirit. They have chosen in the first place to not want to hear God whether than falls on them subconsciously through small steps or consciously rejecting God and choosing to trust worldly ideas. But to get to that point there had to have been a process where a person made themselves hardened to Gods. God creates people as vessels and it is people who choose to fill that vessel with whatever they want whether that be God or this world.

Romans 4:16 says, “The promise is not only for those people that live under the law of Moses. It is for anyone who lives with faith like Abraham”
So anyone who has faith can take up Gods offer of salvation. This is the key. Jesus says we have to become like children as far as faith is concerned trusting in Gods promise. But for some they choose not to put faith in God but rather trust in material things. That is why it is harder for a rich person to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Because they have many more distractions that prevent them for putting trust in God.

stevevw · Dec 26, 2019

lismore said:
Yes. But real hate is to know the truth and not share it with someone. We need to share the truth of God's word with homosexuals and Trans persons so that they have the opportunity for salvation. God Bless

How do we do that. It seems there is a lot of hostility to a confrontational approach. Just citing a bible verse that condemns homosexuals or adulterers to hell and telling them that Jesus saves may offend people and turn them off being receptive to any message of salvation. Is there a time and place for a hard line approach as opposed to a softer approach.

Just as they do in community centers or charities like the Salvo's they don't confront people such as addicts or perpetrators of crime and tell them they need to repent otherwise they would probably throw a chair at the support worker and walk out. They first try to win the confidence of people in need and then support their practical needs regardless. In this way people can see God in practical ways and they may become more open to accepting Christ.

But I do agree that for some there needs to be a more hard line approach. Some have heard the message and turn their backs and continue to sin. Just like an addict may have received that softer approach and shown the way to recovery they sometimes need a to be called out if they keep biting the hand that feeds them. You have to draw the line and give them some tough love just like some sinners may need with the reality that sin leads to death and separation from God.

But I think it is important to know the time and place for which approach to take to get the best results. But IMO I can see modern day evangelism is becoming too soft and there is almost no difference between secular ideology and those of faith. People are too frightened of offending others and whether it be with religion or otherwise and are becoming PC. People rationalist all the bits of the bible that don't conform to worldview ideologies to make it more acceptable and this is making the bible no different to some government PC policies.

1Reformedman · Dec 26, 2019

stevevw said:
I am not saying that need to understand spiritual things to have the free will to choose or reject God. God desires that all people should be saved. Therefore everyone must have that chance to follow God. But as the bible says some choose not and their hearts become hardened to God.
Our eternal destiny lies in our own hands so therefore all must have the chance. God does not send anyone to hell because they were destined from the start. We send ourselves to hell by choosing to reject Christ.
Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? The Craig-Bradley Debate | Reasonable Faith

If we know the difference between right and wrong in our hearts then that implies we knowingly sin. If we know of Gods laws and that he is the law giver then we must come to a cross roads at some point where we can choose to submit to God as a sinner. It is this point that I believe all people have the chance to accept or reject Jesus.

So you are saying some people did not have a chance in the first place to be saved. They were predestined to end up in hell no matter what. I am no bible scholar but somehow I don't think that is correct. God would not send people to hell without a chance to accept or reject him. As the bible says God desires that all should be saved and than implies that all have a chance to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I think when some do not hear the word their hearts have already been hardened to God. I don't believe that people cannot hear God because they are not capable of hearing Gods spirit. They have chosen in the first place to not want to hear God whether than falls on them subconsciously through small steps or consciously rejecting God and choosing to trust worldly ideas. But to get to that point there had to have been a process where a person made themselves hardened to Gods. God creates people as vessels and it is people who choose to fill that vessel with whatever they want whether that be God or this world.

Romans 4:16 says, “The promise is not only for those people that live under the law of Moses. It is for anyone who lives with faith like Abraham”
So anyone who has faith can take up Gods offer of salvation. This is the key. Jesus says we have to become like children as far as faith is concerned trusting in Gods promise. But for some they can make they hearts unable to put faith in God but rather trust in material things. That is why it is harder for a rich person to enter heaven that for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Because they have many more barriers that prevent them for putting trust in God.

God desiring that all be saved its not about free will. Taken in context 2 peter 3:9 is talking about the elect coming to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:4 isnt about salvation but instead who we are to pray for. FYI I suggest you learn how to properly read the bible. Primary teachings are never subordinated by secondary teachings. The bible does not teach or imply that all have the op[portunity to be saved. Salvation is an act exclusively offered and effectuated by God himself. Being saved has nothing to do with anything you think you do to obtain it.

All means all within the context that it is being used. Our eternal destiny DOES NOT REST in our hands as you have so erroneously and unbiblically stated. If what you say is true then Jesus' death, burial and resurrection was not sufficient enough to save you but instead was simply bringing about the potential for one to be saved. Based upon your false premise its the human who gives God permission to save him. Nothing could be further from the biblical truth of the matter.

Silverback · Dec 26, 2019

stevevw said:
I was involved in another thread open to all about religious freedom. It was based on a case where a famous person was sacked for breaching the codes of conduct of their employer because of expressing their religious beliefs on social media. The bible verse was perceived to be hateful towards certain a certain minority group despite others saying they had the right to express their religious beliefs. I don't want to base this thread on that case but something got me thinking when discussing the situation.

Some who supported this person being sacked stated they thought the person should not have posted the bible verse at all even if they used tact to try and explain the reasons for posting the verse. Then I wondered in the current climate of outrage and PC and anti religion are we headed towards a time when certain bible verses will be seen as divisive and hateful and people will start demanding that they be banned from social media and the work place. Will we see the bible itself banned from the public forum.

I personally believe that with an 20 years the bible will, by law, be relegated to the home, and the church. I also believe there will be a ban on publishing God's word, spreading the Gospel, and any public display of Christianity. These will be Federal Laws, and they will use the public school system to indoctrinate our children, to report anyone violating these laws.

If you think it can't happen, then you are naive.

1Reformedman · Dec 26, 2019

Silverback said:
I personally believe that with an 20 years the bible will, by law, be relegated to the home, and the church. I also believe there will be a ban on publishing God's word, spreading the Gospel, and any public display of Christianity. These will be Federal Laws, and they will use the public school system to indoctrinate our children, to report anyone violating these laws.

If you think it can't happen, then you are naive.

If what you say happens that means that the constitution has been destroyed. If you make a federal law against a specific religion then you've created a law that shows an inclination to limit the free exercise thereof. Remember, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF;

Im not saying its not possible but I dont think that will happen for some time now and if it does then it will be a worldwide law, not just a federal law.

RDKirk · Dec 26, 2019

lismore said:
Yes. But real hate is to know the truth and not share it with someone. We need to share the truth of God's word with homosexuals and Trans persons so that they have the opportunity for salvation. God Bless

But we need to be sure to be sharing the gospel. Not every verse in the bible conveys the gospel.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

RDKirk · Dec 26, 2019

stevevw said:
How do we do that. It seems there is a lot of hostility to a confrontational approach. Just citing a bible verse that condemns homosexuals or adulterers to hell and telling them that Jesus saves may offend people and turn them off being receptive to any message of salvation. Is there a time and place for a hard line approach as opposed to a softer approach.

Just as they do in community centers or charities like the Salvo's they don't confront people such as addicts or perpetrators of crime and tell them they need to repent otherwise they would probably throw a chair at the support worker and walk out. They first try to win the confidence of people in need and then support their practical needs regardless. In this way people can see God in practical ways and they may become more open to accepting Christ.

But I do agree that for some there needs to be a more hard line approach. Some have heard the message and turn their backs and continue to sin. Just like an addict may have received that softer approach and shown the way to recovery they sometimes need a to be called out if they keep biting the hand that feeds them. You have to draw the line and give them some tough love just like some sinners may need with the reality that sin leads to death and separation from God.

The "hard line approach" is for the Holy Spirit, whose job it is to convict the world of sin.

And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.

We are the Body of Christ. Our job is not to convict the world of sin. Our job is to continue what Jesus did in the flesh on earth.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

But I think it is important to know the time and place for which approach to take to get the best results. But IMO I can see modern day evangelism is becoming too soft and there is almost no difference between secular ideology and those of faith. People are too frightened of offending others and whether it be with religion or otherwise and are becoming PC. People rationalist all the bits of the bible that don't conform to worldview ideologies to make it more acceptable and this is making the bible no different to some government PC policies.

Jesus told us:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,

In fact, He said it twice for emphasis:

He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

Who the Father has enabled might be anyone, but it is not everyone.

And it may not be anyone all the time, but that one at the right time.

Those who have been enabled do not need a "hard line approach." They need only the gospel--Christ and Him crucified--which is always a soft line.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

This is why Jesus could also say:

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

If that person is not enabled (that person at that time), there is no point in a "hard line approach." Just move on.

1Reformedman · Dec 26, 2019

RDKirk said:
But we need to be sure to be sharing the gospel. Not every verse in the bible conveys the gospel.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

That verse is directed to those who believe. The lost have no desire for God and because of their hatred for God, they will never choose Christ unless God intervenes and changes the person first.

RDKirk · Dec 26, 2019

1Reformedman said:
That verse is directed to those who believe. The lost have no desire for God and because of their hatred for God, they will never choose Christ unless God intervenes and changes the person first.

That verse is directed to those who have been enabled but don't yet have the gospel.

Those who already believe already know what to believe, are already in Him, and no longer have to "come."

Ban the Bible

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