Do you believe space aliens exist?

Erik Nelson · Dec 22, 2019

JackRT said:
Very imaginative.

the imaginative part is purely the Bible

Scripture says there is "YHWH God the Father" in heaven, who only even chooses to intervene interactively into terrestrial history indirectly, through His Angelic Messenger

Mechanically applying the same pattern to other Scriptural reports of Angelic Messengers influencing earth history then immediately implies other powers in heaven "behind" those angelic influences on earth, too

I had to think to notice the implication, but I didn't do anything imaginative myself

"behind" angelic influences on earth are (allegedly) remote heavenly powers sending those influences (vaguely like a Borg cube sending its tractor beam to manipulate remote objects without directly contacting them)

JackRT · Dec 22, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
And yet they don't. The consensus of scientists and science educators accepts scientific subjects, like evolution and heliocentrism, and does not accept 'staged fake space alien invasion hoax'.

Claim:

“Many scientists reject evolution and support creationism.” --- Morris, Henry. 1980. The ICR scientists. Impact 86 (Aug.). *http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=163

Response:

Of the scientists and engineers in the United States, only about 5% are creationists, according to a 1991 Gallup poll (Robinson 1995, Witham 1997). However, this number includes those working in fields not related to life origins (such as computer scientists, mechanical engineers, etc.). Taking into account only those working in the relevant fields of earth and life sciences, there are about 480,000 scientists, but only about 700 believe in "creation-science" or consider it a valid theory (Robinson 1995). This means that less than 0.15 percent of relevant scientists believe in creationism. And that is just in the United States, which has more creationists than any other industrialized country. In other countries, the number of relevant scientists who accept creationism drops to less than one tenth of 1 percent.

Additionally, many scientific organizations believe the evidence so strongly that they have issued public statements to that effect (NCSEd). The National Academy of Sciences, one of the most prestigious science organizations, devotes a Web site to the topic (NAS 1999). A panel of seventy-two Nobel Laureates, seventeen state academies of science, and seven other scientific organizations created an amicus curiae brief which they submitted to the Supreme Court (Edwards v. Aguillard 1986). This report clarified what makes science different from religion and why creationism is not science.

One needs to examine not how many scientists and professors believe something, but what their conviction is based upon. Most of those who reject evolution do so because of personal religious conviction, not because of evidence. The evidence supports evolution. And the evidence, not personal authority, is what objective conclusions should be based on.

Often, claims that scientists reject evolution or support creationism are exaggerated or fraudulent. Many scientists doubt some aspects of evolution, especially recent hypotheses about it. All good scientists are skeptical about evolution (and everything else) and open to the possibility, however remote, that serious challenges to it may appear. Creationists frequently seize such expressions of healthy skepticism to imply that evolution is highly questionable. They fail to understand that the fact that evolution has withstood many years of such questioning really means it is about as certain as facts can get.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Dec 22, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
And yet they don't. The consensus of scientists and science educators accepts scientific subjects, like evolution and heliocentrism, and does not accept 'staged fake space alien invasion hoax'.

People who ascribe to atheism will most likely fall for the space alien hoax Lie since they have already fallen for the Lie of Macroevolution and Heliocentrism.

.

JackRT · Dec 22, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
People who ascribe to atheism will most likely fall for the space alien hoax Lie since they have already fallen for the Lie of Macroevolution and Heliocentrism..

Your statement puzzles me greatly since in all the time that I have been a scientist (think 1964) I have met a great many scientists including some atheists and I have never ever met one who believed in any way in space aliens. As an actual scientist you have had a different experience? Or is it that you just make up posts like this to fit your anti-science delusion?

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Dec 22, 2019

JackRT said:
Your statement puzzles me greatly since in all the time that I have been a scientist (think 1964) I have met a great many scientists including some atheists and I have never ever met one who believed in any way in space aliens. As an actual scientist you have had a different experience? Or is it that you just make up posts like this to fit your anti-science delusion?

I wasn't responding to you.

Just ignore my posts if they bother you.

.

essentialsaltes · Dec 22, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
People who ascribe to atheism will most likely fall for the space alien hoax Lie since they have already fallen for the Lie of Macroevolution and Heliocentrism.
.

Your statement puzzles me greatly, because I expect I know more atheists than you do, and belief in a 'space alien hoax Lie' is not at all common among atheists.

stevil · Dec 22, 2019

Chrystal-J said:
Even though they might be in area 51, I don't know anyone who's chatting with one. I feel like it's possible, but not likely. Guess you could call me an agnostic on this subject.
If you do believe aliens exist, why?

"Believe" is a strong and complex word.

I would just consider that it would be very awkward if Earth is the only place in the entire observable universe where life has developed.

Why?
Because the universe is so very large.
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars, with perhaps 10 planets per star.
And with time within our Universe having been for 15 billion years so far.

Why would Earth be so special?

Chrystal-J · Dec 22, 2019

Well, I'm a Catholic, so I do believe that earth is God's special creation. But, are there other creations out there? Maybe only God knows.

stevil · Dec 22, 2019

Chrystal-J said:
I think aliens are possible, but seems like they would of shown themselves by now.

Not necessarily.

The universe is so very big, and time is a key factor too.

Humans have had broadcasting technology for only about 100 years.
It takes light 100,000 years to travel just from one edge of our galaxy to the opposite edge.

So noone outside of our milky way galaxy will be aware of the existence of humans for at least 49,900 years from now and that would be assuming these aliens are sitting just outside our own galaxy.
By the time they become aware of us, it is highly likely that we will be extinct due to the effects of industry on our planet.

But if you consider that maybe we might be broadcasting our presence into space for maybe 400 years (before we go extinct). How does that compare to the 15 billion years that have already past in our universe?
That's about 0.00000026% of the time we have been broadcasting our existence.

I would say that if life is relatively uncommon and given the size of the universe and the passage of a great amount of time, it is unlikely for us to discover each other.

coffee4u · Dec 22, 2019

Chrystal-J said:
Even though they might be in area 51, I don't know anyone who's chatting with one. I feel like it's possible, but not likely. Guess you could call me an agnostic on this subject.
If you do believe aliens exist, why?

Nope, they are demons.

God has told us what he made, humans, animals, angelic host.
He also told us a section of them fell and become demons.
Because Satan wants worship and to steer the world away from God. He is the deceiver and he will use whatever works best at any given time in history. Satan isn't going to deceive modern humanity with fruit or sacrificing young women to improve crops.

Matthew 4:8-11
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Aliens fit in very well with the modern mind that really hopes there is 'something' out there, especially if that something has better more advanced technology. There are dozens of alien cults all believing they will be 'taken away' one day. It's the perfect counterfeit to God and the taking away of the church.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Corinthians 2:11
11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

Erik Nelson · Dec 22, 2019

JackRT said:
Your statement puzzles me greatly since in all the time that I have been a scientist (think 1964) I have met a great many scientists including some atheists and I have never ever met one who believed in any way in space aliens. As an actual scientist you have had a different experience? Or is it that you just make up posts like this to fit your anti-science delusion?

Philosophers since Epicurus 2300 years ago, through Bruno 400 years ago, through Fermi 50 years ago, have all told us, repeatedly over & over again, to expect extra-terrestrials to exist, even advanced technological communicative ones

If they did, would you be surprised?

Or, are you saying "space aliens" but meaning "UFOs"? Then, yes, very important to differentiate that red herring distraction from the actual issue of the (possible, plausible, probable) existence of actual factual ETs and ETIs

crashed weather balloons on earth have bupkis to do with the other side of space, and what's out there

And philosophers since Epicurus 2300 years ago, through Bruno 400 years ago, through Fermi 50 years ago, have all told us, repeatedly over & over again, to expect them to exist

better safe than sorry?

Shemjaza · Dec 23, 2019

I don't believe crash landing, space proctologists, but I think there's probably aliens somewhere out there in the vast universe... but they may be so far away that we'll never see them no matter how far we travel and how long we live as a species.

Life may well be common (it got stated on Earth pretty quickly), but I suspect intelligent, technological life is vanishingly rare (that's even if it doesn't wipe itself out).

essentialsaltes · Dec 23, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
through Fermi 50 years ago, have all told us, repeatedly over & over again, to expect extra-terrestrials to exist

As far as I know, Fermi's contribution to this topic amounts to one lunchtime conversation, in which the upshot was his exclamation of "Where are they?" or something of the sort. #1 it is not something he repeated over and over. #2 the thrust of his comment points more toward the denial of the existence of extraterrestrials, since we have no evidence of them.

If they existed, they would have visited us.
They haven't visited us (Where are they?)
Therefore they do not exist.

Tolworth John · Dec 23, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
Christopher Columbus didn't cross the Atlantic in Spanish galleons...only to crash his landing skiff on the rocky shores of the New World, sink, & drown

Advanced aliens wouldn't cross intergalactic space...only to repeatedly crash & die on earth

unidentified air craft are not identified alien space craft

Columba's didn't use galleons he used much smaller and more sea worthy ships.
As you say any aliens capable of crossing interstella space would not be detected by our equipment.

So it is unreasonable to believe in aliens.

Tolworth John · Dec 23, 2019

Lost4words said:
That doesnt explain that they may very well have a vastly different form of space travel!

There are two options, they have technology similar to what we have. This would be as I've said totally detectable.
Or

They are so advanced that we cannot detect them. In which case we would not know they were here.

Either way what is being reported is not aliens.

Erik Nelson · Dec 23, 2019

Shemjaza said:
I don't believe crash landing, space proctologists, but I think there's probably aliens somewhere out there in the vast universe... but they may be so far away that we'll never see them no matter how far we travel and how long we live as a species.

Life may well be common (it got stated on Earth pretty quickly), but I suspect intelligent, technological life is vanishingly rare (that's even if it doesn't wipe itself out).

why are you so sure?

if it was out there, you think Hubble would notice it?

We can't resolve individual stars in other galaxies, or even in most of our own -- if we can't see an entire bleeping star, blazing away for the universe to see, why would we think we would see alien space crafts & space habitats and what not?

advanced aliens would not aim their streetlights our way, and even if they did, we couldn't detect it

human level cosmology is not a precision science, the error bars on all observations are significant, and Hubble's myopic inability to see the Apollo landing sites on our own moon, and ~50 pixels on Pluto in our own star system, should not make us cosmologically cocky about our "space eyes on the skies"

If you were walking in a jungle, and got dirt in your eyes, would you assume there were no scorpions, poisonous millipedes, snakes, pumas, jaguars or others out there?

"Seeing is believing" = too late / lunch (for those with better eyes)

better safe than sorry?

The wise default assumption would be:

they are out there (until proven otherwise)
they are hostile (until proven otherwise)
- they are not going to willingly reveal themselves
- they will try to deleteriously influence earth history
  - as much as possible
  - as quickly as possible

Again, that is the ordinary run-of-the-space-mill default position. Claiming that the entire galaxy or universe is devoid of intelligent life, when one of one well-surveyed star systems has such, would be the actual extra-ordinary claim. As would be the claim that, if they exist, they are going to be friendly and help humanity in any way -- that might be possible, but would be extremely unusual & extra-ordinary.

The ordinary, run-of-the-mill, default assumptions would be:

they are out there (until proven otherwise)
they are hostile (until proven otherwise)
- they are not going to willingly reveal themselves
- they will try to deleteriously influence earth history
  - as much as possible
  - as quickly as possible

If that were to turn out to be the case, we shouldn't be surprised. Anything else (earth is the only inhabited planet in the universe, they're friendly) should be exceedingly surprising, hence an extra-ordinary claim.

essentialsaltes said:
As far as I know, Fermi's contribution to this topic amounts to one lunchtime conversation, in which the upshot was his exclamation of "Where are they?" or something of the sort. #1 it is not something he repeated over and over. #2 the thrust of his comment points more toward the denial of the existence of extraterrestrials, since we have no evidence of them.

If they existed, they would have visited us.
They haven't visited us (Where are they?)
Therefore they do not exist.

yes, we should expect them to exist... and even to have visited us...

and if we should expect them to have visited us (physically, materially, matter travelling slower than lightspeed) how much more should we expect them to have contacted us (informationally, light traveling at lightspeed) ?

crashed weather balloons on earth are not evidence of advanced anything, much less advanced space aliens from the other side of the galaxy or universe...

but if Carl Sagan or his great great great … great great grandfather Abraham ever claimed to receive meaningful intelligible cogent articulate audio-visual messages from super-intelligent heavenly powers, then we shouldn't be surprised

(it would not be an extra-ordinary claim, "life in the universe communicating" is the completely normal run-of-the-mill off-the-shelf presumable assumable default presupposition -- no exotic DM or DE supersymmetric axions from inflationary fields from String Theories dozens of Planck-scale hyper-dimensions required... just "life in the universe communicating"... momentous claims are not automatically extra-ordinary... if Idaho ranchers reported massive earthquakes heralding the next Yellowstone super-eruption, which we expect to happen geologically soon, that would be momentous headline news... but by no means extra-ordinary... already been made into a movie)

Lost4words · Dec 23, 2019

Tolworth John said:
There are two options, they have technology similar to what we have. This would be as I've said totally detectable.
Or

They are so advanced that we cannot detect them. In which case we would not know they were here.

Either way what is being reported is not aliens.

Have you got proof that what is being reported is not aliens?

Shemjaza · Dec 23, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
why are you so sure?

if it was out there, you think Hubble would notice it?

We can't resolve individual stars in other galaxies, or even in most of our own -- if we can't see an entire bleeping star, blazing away for the universe to see, why would we think we would see alien space crafts & space habitats and what not?

advanced aliens would not aim their streetlights our way, and even if they did, we couldn't detect it

human level cosmology is not a precision science, the error bars on all observations are significant, and Hubble's myopic inability to see the Apollo landing sites on our own moon, and ~50 pixels on Pluto in our own star system, should not make us cosmologically cocky about our "space eyes on the skies"

If you were walking in a jungle, and got dirt in your eyes, would you assume there were no scorpions, poisonous millipedes, snakes, pumas, jaguars or others out there?

"Seeing is believing" = too late / lunch (for those with better eyes)

better safe than sorry?

The wise default assumption would be:

they are out there (until proven otherwise)

they are hostile (until proven otherwise)

they are not going to willingly reveal themselves

they will try to deleteriously influence earth history

as much as possible

as quickly as possible

Again, that is the ordinary run-of-the-space-mill default position. Claiming that the entire galaxy or universe is devoid of intelligent life, when one of one well-surveyed star systems has such, would be the actual extra-ordinary claim. As would be the claim that, if they exist, they are going to be friendly and help humanity in any way -- that might be possible, but would be extremely unusual & extra-ordinary.

The ordinary, run-of-the-mill, default assumptions would be:

they are out there (until proven otherwise)

they are hostile (until proven otherwise)

they are not going to willingly reveal themselves

they will try to deleteriously influence earth history

as much as possible

as quickly as possible

If that were to turn out to be the case, we shouldn't be surprised. Anything else (earth is the only inhabited planet in the universe, they're friendly) should be exceedingly surprising, hence an extra-ordinary claim.

yes, we should expect them to exist... and even to have visited us...

and if we should expect them to have visited us (physically, materially, matter travelling slower than lightspeed) how much more should we expect them to have contacted us (informationally, light traveling at lightspeed) ?

crashed weather balloons on earth are not evidence of advanced anything, much less advanced space aliens from the other side of the galaxy or universe...

but if Carl Sagan or his great great great … great great grandfather Abraham ever claimed to receive meaningful intelligible cogent articulate audio-visual messages from super-intelligent heavenly powers, then we shouldn't be surprised

(it would not be an extra-ordinary claim, "life in the universe communicating" is the completely normal run-of-the-mill off-the-shelf presumable assumable default presupposition -- no exotic DM or DE supersymmetric axions from inflationary fields from String Theories dozens of Planck-scale hyper-dimensions required... just "life in the universe communicating"... momentous claims are not automatically extra-ordinary... if Idaho ranchers reported massive earthquakes heralding the next Yellowstone super-eruption, which we expect to happen geologically soon, that would be momentous headline news... but by no means extra-ordinary... already been made into a movie)

I'm not sure.

The scale of the universe just makes basically any possibility likely on a larger scale... but the same scale makes it likely to happen near us small.

If we assume the existence species so advanced that they can travel between the stars and has already found us, then stressing about if they are hostile is totally pointless... we are 100% in their power already, we aren't like the Incas and Cortez, we are like a single nest of ants surrounded by a city.

Robban · Dec 23, 2019

Lost4words said:
How do you know they dont have a vastly superior technology when it comes to space travel?

HS Airways?

Chrystal-J · Dec 23, 2019

coffee4u said:
Nope, they are demons.

God has told us what he made, humans, animals, angelic host.
He also told us a section of them fell and become demons.
Because Satan wants worship and to steer the world away from God. He is the deceiver and he will use whatever works best at any given time in history. Satan isn't going to deceive modern humanity with fruit or sacrificing young women to improve crops.

Matthew 4:8-11
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Aliens fit in very well with the modern mind that really hopes there is 'something' out there, especially if that something has better more advanced technology. There are dozens of alien cults all believing they will be 'taken away' one day. It's the perfect counterfeit to God and the taking away of the church.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Corinthians 2:11
11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

I think it's possible that it's demons and not aliens in the sense that we know them. I know I'd be calling out to Jesus if I saw one.

Do you believe space aliens exist?

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