Christian Zionist "Replacement Theology"

sovereigngrace said:

Exactly, Revelation 20 correlates with this current age. The end of the millennium is the second coming. Please compare!

Click to expand...

Revelation 20 does not correlate to this current age. Nor the end of the millennium the second coming.

Jesus's second coming ends this current age of Satan's and his angels' mystical kingdom of Babylon the great ruling over the earth.

Jesus returns down to this earth in Revelation 19. At which time Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, as the millennial reign of Jesus takes place.

Then at the end of the thousand years, Satan is released, deceives the nations to rebel against the Kingdom of God. Which God destroys them, and Satan cast into the lake of fire. On the last day, which them who will stand before the Great White Throne judgment will be judged.

thomas_t said:

I stay with my opinion concerning the faithful remnant. There is no faithful remnant that was called Israel. There have been people belonging to both Israel and a faithful remnant, though.

Click to expand...

I agree.

thomas_t said:

You supported it. You supported replacement theology.

Click to expand...

Here is a recent example of what I mean about your repeated false accusations. I've explained quite a few times in this thread why "replacement" is completely a misnomer in regards to my beliefs. I am personally trying to insert back in the Israel YOU have cut out of the biblical story (a very critical part - the faithful remnant that brought forth Christ the Messiah). I'm including - it is YOU who are doing the replacing and excluding.

thomas_t said:

I stay with my opinion concerning the faithful remnant. There is no faithful remnant that was called Israel. There have been people belonging to both Israel and a faithful remnant, though.

Click to expand...

Until a person sees the Bible as ONE continual story - I doubt they'll see the plan of restoration of God and His people that's told from Genesis to Revelation.

Maybe the simplest way to try to summarize is to look at the prophecy of Immanuel in Isaiah 7-12. In that prophecy the faithful remnant is contrasted with the others. Immanuel is the point of distinction between the two groups. For the masses, Immanuel is a “stone of stumbling and a rock of offense” (Isa. 8:14). For the believing remnant, He is salvation (12:2) and a sanctuary (8:14).

Douggg said:

Revelation 20 does not correlate to this current age. Nor the end of the millennium the second coming.

Jesus's second coming ends this current age of Satan's and his angels' mystical kingdom of Babylon the great ruling over the earth.

Jesus returns down to this earth in Revelation 19. At which time Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years, as the millennial reign of Jesus takes place.

Then at the end of the thousand years, Satan is released, deceives the nations to rebel against the Kingdom of God. Which God destroys them, and Satan cast into the lake of fire. On the last day, which them who will stand before the Great White Throne judgment will be judged.

Click to expand...

Congrats on ignoring my whole last post that negates your argument. This seems to be the typical Premil MO online. They cannot handle being challenged with the Word. I will take that as an admission that you cannot refute it!

Rev 19 is climactic. All the wicked are destroyed. There is no mortals left to populate your supposed future MK. Rev 20 goes right back to the first resurrection Christ. There was no other person that preceded Him in defeating death.

mkgal1 said:

If you're going to dismiss the story of the Olive Tree as being relevant to Israel AND the New Covenant - including the description of the meaning of the root and the grafted branches - then what do you do with the fact that Christ is the very root of the Olive Tree and that all the apostles, Mary the mother of Jesus, Elizabeth, John the Baptizer (to name just a very few), are also from the faithful remnant called "Israel". They certainly aren't "enemies of the Gospel". There's a common thread that runs throughout ALL of the Bible - and that's the People of God (Israel).

In your assertion that God must've stripped the title of "Olive Tree" from Old Covenant "Israel" to hand it over to another/separate group is an excellent example of "replacement theology". It's notable that this is in your signature here:

"Even in the New Testament, Israel is still Israel. Replace Replacement Theology". ~ Quoted from Thomas

Click to expand...

Maybe we can park on how this is revealed in the Scripture, then, since you're saying you don't remember Scripture in this sense?

Isaiah 11

Reign of the Davidic King
1 Then a shoot will grow from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him- a Spirit of wisdom and understanding, a Spirit of counsel and strength, a Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

sovereigngrace said:

There was no other person that preceded Him in defeating death.

Click to expand...

Excellent.

thomas_t said:

But you voted a post up saying so:
(Sorry, SG, I know you wanted to stop discussing with me, but here I needed this to back my claim up about Gal voting a post up saying so.)

Gal, I appreciate your thoughtfulness, but this time you're contradicting yourself.


I wrote that God is able to even out an advantage to one race. I'm not talking about favoritism.
I don't impose my racialization on nobody.

I answered this in #145, please stop going round in circles with me, thank you.

Click to expand...

Please stop twisting people's responses (and beliefs). You know that Replacement Theology title is a misrepresentation of what many of us believe. Stick to the facts! Different posters have told you they believe in ‘Inclusion Theology’ and ‘Expansion Theology’. They see a continuity between God’s people in the Old and New Testament. We have joined faithful Israel (God's elect).

Douggg said:

No. The nations that attack, lead by Satan, include the prior Gog and Magog nations.

Click to expand...

This is another example of you sidestepping the question. For to address it would totally negate your argument.

So, are you now saying that there are NO righteous nations in your supposed future millennium?

Douggg said:

I agree.

Click to expand...

While Dispensationalists are fixated with all things biologically Jewish, they seem blind to the fact that the infant New Testament Church was indeed faithful Israel. Christ’s early followers consisted of the elect remnant of Israel. This was the enlightened congregation of Jewish believers from among wider national Israel. They were the Israeli community who believed that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah.

This company contained people like Mary and Joseph, John the Baptist and his parents Zechariah and Elizabeth, Simeon and Anna who were waiting faithfully in the temple for Jesus, and early disciples like Peter, James and John. Many Jews recognized Jesus as the Messiah and embraced Him during His earthly ministry. In fact, they came to Him in great multitudes. Both Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, who were both believed to be members of the ruling body of the Jews – the Sanhedrin, trusted in Him. Faithful Israel also included that Hebrew of the Hebrews the apostle Paul. The fledgling early Church overwhelmingly consisted of true believing Israelites. This was the ongoing righteous remnant of Israel. Those Jews who rejected Jesus were apostate Israel. They preferred to remain in their sins and go to a lost eternity.

The 12 apostles were Jewish. The New Testament writers were Jewish. The 70 disciples that were sent out to evangelize Israel were likewise. The true Israel of the Old Testament became the nucleus of the new covenant congregation. That small faithful band of Israelis that existed after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ became the New Testament Church, and became later known as Christians (Acts 11:26). It was that faithful number who Jesus used to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19).

The 120, who met on the Jewish festival of Pentecost, were of solid Israeli stock. When Peter preached on the day of Pentecost after the Holy Spirit had fell, his audience was devout Jews “out of every nation under heaven” who had gathered in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. That is why he addressed them as “Ye men of Israel” (Acts 2:5). Personally, three thousand of them experience salvation. Not long after that, God saved five thousand Jews in Jerusalem (Acts 4:4). Following that, there was “multitudes both of men and women” who “were the more added to the Lord” in Acts 5:14. There was a mighty ingathering of Jews in the early New Testament Church.

Part 1

sovereigngrace said:

First of all, I believe Daniel's 70 weeks are fulfilled.

Click to expand...

I as well.

sovereigngrace said:

I also believe a lot of Matthew 24 is fulfilled (also Mark 13
Luke 21).

Click to expand...

I believe all of it to be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened

sovereigngrace said:

Thirdly, I also agree with the importance of biblical corroboration.

Click to expand...

I am glad we agree. While corroboration doesn't always provide the best or perfect interpretation, it's much better than speculation.

sovereigngrace said:

But understanding Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is notoriously difficult. That is because Christ is sometimes speaking about AD70 and sometimes His climactic return.

Click to expand...

I agree it can be difficult. But I disagree that it goes between AD70 and future to us because of Matthew 24:34, Luke 21:32, and mark 13:30, which specifically states all the events would occur within their generation.

As a partial preterist, I believe the coming of Jesus in the olivet discourse was a coming of judgment, just as God came down from heaven multiple times in the OT in judgment on nations. When we look at the parable of the wicked tenants, the Pharisees realized that the meaning of Jesus' parable referred to the vineyard owner coming to destroy them. Do you believe the parable of the wicked tenants was fulfilled or is it still future?

Matthew 21:40-45 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’k ? Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l ”When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

sovereigngrace said:

Matthew 24:1-2 records, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Christ was specifically speaking here of “the buildings of the temple” not the city. You cannot anywhere find that Israel is described as this. This is literal precise detail!

Mark 13:1-2 records, “And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here. And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

In this parallel account, Mark corroborates the thought of Matthew.

Luke 21:5-6 records, “And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Click to expand...

I agree that "not one stone upon another" refers to the temple. But I can think we also can corroborate that the destruction of the temple occurs when the city is also destroyed.

Daniel 9:26 Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.
Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

sovereigngrace said:

The disciples then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response tom our Lord’s words.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Mark 13:4 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”

Luke 21:7 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.

Click to expand...

I disagree that the olivet discourse relates to both AD70 and future to us. I believe both questions refer to the disciples generation.

Paul believed the end of the ages had come.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come

Paul believed the resurrection of the just and unjust was about to occur.
Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there is about to be resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Peter believed the end was near
1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so that you can pray

John believed it to be the last hour
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour

James believed the coming of the Lord was near.
James 5:8-9 You too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

The beliefs of the apostles support the very words of Jesus from the olivet discourse

Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened

sovereigngrace said:

While you are right to highlight the importance of biblical corroboration (and I commend you), you impose a mistaken historic meaning on Luke 21:25-28 to justify your opinion of the 6th seal, when in fact both are referring to the climactic coming of the Lord. The seven seals are the 2nd of 7 recaps in Revelation culminating in the one and only coming of the Jesus.

Click to expand...

While we disagree on the timing of Luke 21:25-28, we at least agree that it refers to 6th seal.

Further corroboration is needed then. Simply using more scripture to interpret scripture can show us the fulfillment of the apocalyptic literature in revelation's 6th seal.


Jesus clearly refers to the first century desolation of Jerusalem.

Luke 23:28-29 But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’c

Revelation 6:16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

sovereigngrace said:

The fledgling early Church overwhelmingly consisted of true believing Israelites. This was the ongoing righteous remnant of Israel. Those Jews who rejected Jesus were apostate Israel. They preferred to remain in their sins and go to a lost eternity.

Click to expand...

Exactly. One passage that demonstrates the contrast between the two is Galatians 4 - referring to Abraham's two sons and the emphasis on who their mothers were (as opposed to the traditional emphasis of the father) - and that the promise to Abraham wasn't about "flesh" but about "faith".

sovereigngrace said:

Rev 19 is climactic. All the wicked are destroyed. There is no mortals left to populate your supposed future MK. Rev 20 goes right back to the first resurrection Christ. There was no other person that preceded Him in defeating death.

Click to expand...

The ones who are destroyed are the beast and the false prophet, and them of the armies that will have gathered together to make war on Jesus.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
_______________________________________________
Among the mortals who will go into the millennium are them in Zechariah 14:5.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

claninja said:

The beliefs of the apostles support the very words of Jesus from the olivet discourse

Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Luke 21:32 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply! It is refreshing to discuss with someone who believes in corroboration. I am used challenging premillennialists who constantly ignore or dismiss that important hermeneutical rule.

This above is the strongest Partial Preterist point. I believe it is the only one. But when we look at the Greek word and examine its meaning it is broader than you make it.

The word genea means:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

The root word for genea is genos (Strong’s 1085), which means kindred, offspring, family, stock, tribe, nation, i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people.

Acts 13:26 talks about “children of the stock [Gr. genos] of Abraham” and Philippians 3:5 those “of the stock [Gr. genos] of Israel.” The Bible is here speaking in a natural sense.

Many of us take this word as referring broadly to the Christ rejecting stock of Israel. I don't see it restricted to time. Throughout this age most Jews have remained stubborn to the truth. At the end of this age Jesus comes to raise and judge all. They will all be brought to account for their rebellion.

It is best to understand Jesus’ expression to mean this stock, race, people, or period of time. An example of this can be found in Luke 16:8: "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation (genea) wiser than the children of light."

The root word of genos is ginomai (Strong’s 1096), which literally means to gen-erate.

Unfortunately, you totally ignored most of my main points. That is concerning. I refer you back.

When do you think the day of redemption is?

Douggg said:

The ones who are destroyed are the beast and the false prophet, and them of the armies that will have gathered together to make war on Jesus.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
_______________________________________________
Among the mortals who will go into the millennium are them in Zechariah 14:5.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Click to expand...

Revelation 19 is completely climatic, like every other second coming passage in Scripture. It is totally destructive! No one survives! Please read. Revelation 19:11-16 affirms, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Let us be clear: He is Coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

The feasting part of the marriage supper of the Lamb is a symbolism depicted the destruction of the wicked. Why can this not be a symbolic depiction of the return of Christ and the events that accompany it (including the destruction of the wicked)?

The first part of the narrative outlines a detailed account of the assignment given to “the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven” by the heavenly messenger. The “fowls” are instructed to “come and gather” themselves “together unto the supper of the great God” in order that they would “eat”:

1. The flesh of kings,
2. The flesh of captains,
3. The flesh of mighty men,
4. The flesh of horses, them that sit on them,
5. The flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.

The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will be a unique day in the annals of human history and unprecedented in its all-consummating character. Obviously, no other day has ever seen the end of the world and the final complete defeat of every last enemy of righteousness, truth and Almighty God. Neither has any other day seen the destruction of all wickedness by way of fire before. Notwithstanding, the Lord draws our specific attention to two notable days in human history to compare it with, and to fully illustrate the character and finality of this all-consummating day. These two particular days are familiar to most and are found in Holy Writ (both in the Old Testament), and give us an unparalleled insight into the nature, extent and detail of judgment on that impending last day. While, evidently there is no previous individual bygone historic example of a total global annihilation of the wicked by fire, these two individual days, when joined together, vividly portray what will occur on the final day of time. These two former days being (1) the day that Noah entered into the ark and (2) the day that Lot was rescued out of Sodom.

sovereigngrace said:

The word genea means:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

Many of us take this word as referring broadly to the Christ rejecting stock of Israel. I don't see it restricted to time

Click to expand...

It was 40 years from the crucifix until the destruction of the Temple (and all that went along with that religious system). The number 40 - in the Bible - often is a transition period of time between two distinct epochs.....but it also represents a time of purification as in Luke 2:22:



Another example of a period of time relative to the number 40 is when Jesus showed Himself for 40 days after His resurrection:

mkgal1 said:

It was 40 years from the crucifix until the destruction of the Temple (and all that went along with that religious system). The number 40 - in the Bible - often is a transition period of time between two distinct epochs.....but it also represents a time of purification as in Luke 2:22:

Luke 2:22 ~ And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

See Leviticus 12 - Purification after Childbirth
(Genesis 17:9-27; Joshua 5:1-9; Acts 15:1-4)​

Click to expand...

I agree. But the Greek word has a broader meaning than that in Scripture. I added more info to my last post.

When do you think the day of redemption is?

sovereigngrace said:

The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

Click to expand...

It is referring to them in the armies. Not all of the mortals on the earth.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

_____________________________________________________
Corresponds to Ezekiel 39:17-21

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Jesus speaking in verse 21, in the future, when he returns to earth in Revelation 19. Those heathen, are the nations, the mortals that will go into the millennium to be ruled by Jesus with a rod of iron.

Douggg said:

It is referring to them in the armies. Not all of the mortals on the earth.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

_____________________________________________________
Corresponds to Ezekiel 39:17-21

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

Jesus speaking in verse 21, in the future, when he returns to earth in Revelation 19. Those heathen, are the nations, the mortals that will go into the millennium to be ruled by Jesus with a rod of iron.

Click to expand...

Revelation 19:19 declares, “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.”

Just like Christ’s army includes all the elect, the beast’s confederate army includes all the wicked. These are the only two peoples in Revelation listed under these two opposing influences.

The beast’s confederate army is not a select group of soldiers coming against earthly Jerusalem, neither is Megiddo even mentioned in Revelation 19.

Revelation 13:3-4 states, “all the world wondered (thaumazo or admired and marvelled) after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast.”

Revelation 13:8 states, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the beast), whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Revelation 17:8: “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder (thaumazo or admire or marvel), whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast.”

We cannot in anyway underestimate the power and sway of the beast. His allegiance is comprehensive. In fact, every single human being whose name is not written in the lamb’s book of life from the foundation of the earth ends up submitting to him.

We are given much illumination and help in establishing the identity of, and the extent of those who pay homage to, the beast in this passage. In fact, it is extremely difficult to ignore the extraordinary influence of the beast outlined in the whole book of Revelation. The aforementioned verse tells us that his/its adherents include every single person “whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Therefore, the beast specifically and symbolically must relate to some all-embracing Christ-rejecting influence or body that controls the affections of the sum total of the non-elect, those that will be eternally damned. I believe it is talking about the Christ-rejecting world.
There are only 2 peoples on this earth in God's eyes - the redeemed and the wicked. These both are armies in conflict with each other. When Jesus returns the elect are caught up, the wicked are destroyed. These 2 peoples/armies carry one of 2 marks - God's mark or the world's mark of reprobation.

They are represented as 2 armies that are in conflict. God's army returns with Him, the devil's are destroyed by Christ's Coming. You are trying to limit what the Holy Spirit is saying. All flesh is destroyed here as it was in Noah's day and in Sodom. There were no survivors. You are side-stepping the actual wording of Revelation 19.