Newly revealed evidence VINDICATES SDA sabbath teachings!

EastCoastRemnant said:

If anyone thinks the Gospel is "all about Jesus" should read a bit what Jesus Himself said... scripture tells us He points us to God the Father. Did Jesus exalt Himself above the Father or was He subservient to Him? Where's the love for the Father??

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Is the gospel not about Jesus, and more on keeping the Sabbath?

1stcenturylady said:

Is the gospel not about Jesus, and more on keeping the Sabbath?

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If you would have read the context of my post you wouldn't ask such a question.

Today, many Christians only speak of, praise and glorify the Son with no worship or praise to the Father. Of course worship and praise and honour is due to the Son but not at the exclusion of His Father.

EastCoastRemnant said:

If you would have read the context of my post you wouldn't ask such a question.

Today, many Christians only speak of, praise and glorify the Son with no worship or praise to the Father. Of course worship and praise and honour is due to the Son but not at the exclusion of His Father.

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Gospel 101

Most SDA don’t care to know what others believe the Gospel is. They often make their argument with false claims and claiming without evidence, that the law is part of the gospel.
The bible teaches that the gospel was preached to Abraham by saying:” In thee all nations be blessed.” (Gal3:8)
That’s talking about Abraham’s seed which is Jesus Christ. (True or False)

Paul said: “Let me declare to you the gospel which I preached,
which you received,
on which you stand
and by which you’re saved ( 1Cor 15:1-4)

First issue that I taught you, is what I also received (from Jesus), it's that Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures.

If Gospel means good news and the law is i the ministration of death, you should not be able to fool believers into thinking that they're under the law.

Cribstyl said:

Most SDA don’t care to know what others believe. They often make their argument with false claims. The bible teaches that the gospel was preached to Abraham by saying:” In thee all nations be blessed.” (Gal3:8)
That’s talking about Abraham’s seed which is Jesus Christ. (True or False)
Paul said: “Let me declare the gospel you received, on which you stand and by which you’re saved ( 1Cor 15:1-4)

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Who sent His Son to bless all nations?

EastCoastRemnant said:

Who sent His Son to bless all nations?

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What's your point???
Jhn 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
hn 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The gospel does not leave out the worship of God the Father. We pray to the father and have access to the Father though the name of Jesus Christ. Jesus is God and also worthy of worship, honor and praise.

Cribstyl said:

With all due respects, If anything, Jesus rationalize "THE LAW" into His 2 commandments. If I'm loving God and my neighbor, the moral law cannotl not be broken.
At the transfiguration, Peter thought it was a good idea to memorialize "the law" (Moses) the prophets (Elijah) and Jesus. God interrupted Peter and said: This is my beloved Son, hear Him. What's your understand of the transfiguration?

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Do actions speak louder than words? I can say, I love you, all I want but if I don't act like it my statement is false. I can't swear up and down that I love you and then steal from you. If I do I have just proven I don't love you like I love myself. I can swear up and down that I love God, but if I bow down to an idol I have just shown I don't love God with all my heart. The same goes for the other three commandments that are our duty to God and the other 5 commandments that are our duty to our fellow man.

Where does the Bible say Peter wanted to memorialize "the law"? I have never seen a singe statement in the Bible to that effect. In fact, the Bible says Peter said what he did about building three tabernacles because he was speaking just to hear himself talk after being completely over-awed by the transfiguration.

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

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[/QUOTE

We read Scripture more than any other denomination in our search for truth.

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Do you have statistics on that? Just kidding. You shouldn't write stuff like that, though.

Problem I always saw: scripture reading wasn't really there to search for truth but rather prove what you have been told is true.

Lee Stuvmen said:

Is America Revelation 17 -18 Great Harlot Babylon that is to be destroyed in 1 hour?

THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING!

sevenheadedscarletbeast blogspot.com

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Adventists have traditionally pointed to America in Rev 13 arising to world power after the end of the dark ages. There is another power that is being identified in Rev 17

Cribstyl said:

With all due respects, If anything, Jesus rationalize "THE LAW" into His 2 commandments.

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In Matt 22 Jesus is asked by the Jews "what is the greatest commandment"

Jesus then quotes from the LAW of Moses
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Jesus said all of scripture "the LAW and the Prophets" were firmly established on that unmovable foundation.

Not "they will someday be established" but rather pre-cross already ARE established on those two commands in the LAW of Moses.

And .... the Jews agreed with Christ on that point.

Instead of the much-imagined 'all of scripture is deleted by these two commands from the LAW of Moses" we find -- all scripture is founded on those two.

So no wonder that in Matt 19 Jesus said "if you would enter into life - KEEP the Commandments" and when asked in Matt 19 "which ones" He quotes from the TEN not just from the TWO.

Bible details so obvious that even the pro-sunday scholarship admits to it.

===============================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Lee Stuvmen said:

Is America Revelation 17 -18 Great Harlot Babylon that is to be destroyed in 1 hour?
THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING!
sevenheadedscarletbeast blogspot.com

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No. It is wishful thinking and twisting scripture to make that assumption fit.

The US is gone from the world stage in Revelation - a non entity.

BobRyan said:

In Matt 22 Jesus is asked by the Jews "what is the greatest commandment"

Jesus then quotes from the LAW of Moses
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Jesus said all of scripture "the LAW and the Prophets" were firmly established on that unmovable foundation.

Not "they will someday be established" but rather pre-cross already ARE established on those two commands in the LAW of Moses.

And .... the Jews agreed with Christ on that point.

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Indeed they did. In the previous century Rabbi Hillel** said pretty much the same thing, tying those 2 scriptures together due to them both starting with the same word: V'ahavta. And you shall love ...

**Hillel was grandfather to Paul's mentor Gamaliel.

Hi, All.

I'm new here, and I hope that no one resents my diving right into the conversation.

I think It's very interesting that Christ presents the idea of loving our fellow man as a "new commandment" in John 13:34.

Why? Because as has already been brought up here Leviticus 19:18 states that we should love our neighbors as if they were our own flesh and blood.

Since many of us don't believe that the Bible contradicts itself, the word "new" in John 13:14 must indicate something other than the generic definition of the word.

What is it that might have been considered "new" about the commandment Christ was giving to those who were listening as he said it?

Judaism, at the time of Christ's earthly ministry, was known for its tendency toward legalism. It was an understandable (if erroneous) situation in light of their history of troubles brought about mainly because of their disobedience.

Of course their real problem was that they refused to have the law written on their hearts and instead were satisfied with creating a large number of bylaws as a substitute for conversion.

Could this "new commandment" have been a gentle way of saying to them: "Now I know you folks are having a rough time with this, but putting on airs of devotion toward My Father is not going to make up for your lack of charity toward one another." (?)

It has been said that the great sin of the Jews was making an idol of the law and thus rejecting the Savior Who actually gave the law at Sinai.

Could this be considered a reasonable alternative to the popular, modern position that this "new commandment" is a "new-and-improved" comprehensive view of the duty of Christians, which is so dangerously becoming the new baptized secular humanism sweeping the church today? And that the Cross releases us from our duty to give God his due (tithe, Sabbath, etc.)?

It has also been said that the great sin of Christendom has been making an idol of the Cross and rejecting the law given by Him Who suffered and died upon it.

Thus the pendulum always swings from one extreme to the other when God's will is not carefully considered, right?

Should things be as I want them, as my parents were taught and satisfied with, or as the church full of people who have been so nice to me believe?

Or should they be as God desires?

The ten commandments are and always have been the rule of human behavior. No one disputed this 100 years ago. Not even the unconsecrated and backslidden among us. To give an everlasting code of law which included a strictly ritual commandment with a hidden expiration date is a cruel trick that no righteous and Holy God would pull.

If it was strictly ritual then why not list it with the other ritual laws?

Lee Stuvmen said:

But the SPIRIT OF the OLD COMMANDMENTS IS the same as the spirit of the NEW COMMANDMENT.

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Perhaps.

But when taken alone like a multivitamin the new commandment is glaringly missing the active ingredient of the law:

Man's duty toward God alone.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Who sent His Son to bless all nations?

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Christ is the Gospel. This in no way robs the Father of any glory. He and His Father are One.

BarnyFyfe said:

Christ is the Gospel. This in no way robs the Father of any glory. He and His Father are One.

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Being not a forum member I was hesitant to reply.
You beat me to it!

1 John 5: 4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6. This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Lee Stuvmen said:

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy.

There is no such law in the Bible.

It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone.

The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’

Exodus 31:14
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death:


The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’

And lo!

The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
father T. Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, February 18, 1884, printed in History of the Sabbath, p. 802

IS AMERICA - Great City Harlot Mystery Babylon Revelation 17? The Evidence is Overwhelming! : PART #16 - THE ABOMINATION of DESOLATION

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Has Christ fulfilled the Law?

Mark 2: 27. And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Galatians 3: 16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I believe in the Sabbath and,I have my own reasons it is observed on Sunday for so many.
I think your thread has been derailed off topic.
I remember Kenneth Cox saying Europe and America would be powerless at the end times.
He said they would be not be able to help Isreal due to famine.
Bible prophecy is a subject that has fooled many Preachers into predictions that did not happen.
personally I believe Our Lord could appear at any moment,or many years from now.

Lee Stuvmen said: ↑
As Adventists, [
We read Scripture more than any other denomination in our search for truth.

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do you mean "read more while sitting in the sanctuary for a church service"?

ricker said:

Proof? My Lutheran service has Bible readings consisting of a passage from the Old Testament, the Epistles, and the Gospel read every week. These are sometimes a chapter long each. My memory of SDA services are less Scripture than that.

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I think that may be a fair statement assuming your memory of SDA services is correct and possibly that you did not attend Sabbath School at the time.

But what about the Lutheran classes that the infants take prior to baptism? are the infants reading more Bible than the baptismal candidates studying in the Adventist church - to be baptized?

What about the Lutheran that is studying with the infant so they can be baptized? how does that compare?

Ok -- well then what about a Lutheran studying with a non-Lutheran that wants to study the basic list of Lutheran doctrines so that as a believing adult they can be baptized into the Lutheran church - what does that look like in terms of the amount of Bible study?

a wide myriad of topics on this thread

Lee Stuvmen said:

You are a brave soul for bring up the 10 Commandments on a "Christian" forum, simply because the King of Rome("Pontifex Maximus") and his "diverse" worldwide "Christian" Kingdom vehemently teach that those 10 Commandments which were written by the FINGER OF GOD, were also nailed to the cross along with Mosaic Law.

This statement must afford the understanding that I am not SDA, but do agree with the ONLY thing that denomination has right. God's Seventh Day Rest.


What the World(humanity) has been incapable of understanding regarding these 10 Commandments is the DIFFERENCE between the LETTER of the law, and THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW.


IT IS WRITTEN that God is Spirit, and those that worship Him must worship in Spirit and in Truth.

The LETTER of the Law is; THOU SHALT NOT


But the SPIRIT OF the OLD COMMANDMENTS IS the same as the spirit of the NEW COMMANDMENT.

THOU SHALT . . . . . .

LOVE.



IF you love someone, would your Spirit;

KILL THEM?

STEAL FROM THEM?

TELL LIES ABOUT THEM?


When LOVE FILLS YOUR HEART, is it words on a piece of paper that prevent you from killing and stealing, and coveting and bearing false witness, or what has been written in your heart?


The two most powerful forces in the SPIRITUAL REALM, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE are;

LOVE(God is Love)

TRUTH(Jesus saith, I AM THE TRUTH)

And it would appear in a nutshell that ALL of Scripture details humanities's REJECTION OF TRUTH, and refusal to cease violence against itself and to LOVE.

The first of these reasons is why I am no longer SDA. But I love them because it was through them, that this former "Pontifex Maximus Christian" recognized the importance of the 4th Commandment, which started my foot down the path I now travel.

May God bless you and yours,
Lee

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Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.