Being Orthodox in America is Tough, I'm Not Sure What to Do

GoingByzantine · Dec 20, 2019

I know I will probably regret posting this here, but this is about the only place that I can turn to with this. So here it goes.

I joined this forum when I was a baby-faced 20-year-old college student, trying to find my way in a very confusing world. Within months of joining this forum, I began to look towards the East, and though it was a long journey, I eventually became a full member of the Holy Orthodox Church. I don't for a minute regret my decision. Orthodoxy is full, and Orthodoxy is true - that is fact. I can thank this forum, in part, for teaching me that.

Yet, despite my love for Orthodoxy, recently I have begun to get frustrated with it as well.

I am almost 27 years old now, and while I have Christ - I also feel dreadfully alone. I want to get married, and I want to have a family, as most people do. I have followed all the advice laid out on this forum over the years. I have prayed. I have gotten deeply involved with parish life. I have never in my life had illicit relations with anyone, and I have always tried to treat people with love and respect. Yet, despite this, I have not been blessed to meet anyone who could be my partner.

I know what some of you are thinking, "oh great, another one of these threads." Yet, if you are thinking that way, do you actually know how hard it is to meet a single Orthodox person in the United States? Do you understand the pain that some of your fellow believers are going through with this issue? It's not a joking matter.

There is one lousy Orthodox dating website available that barely has any users on it, and there is a scattering of meetup events for undergraduate aged students to get together. That is it. If there are no Orthodox singles in your area and you are no longer a college student, then you are out of luck.

And that is where I get so frustrated. The Orthodox Church expects me to follow a set of moral rules that are very difficult to follow in the context of the United States. I have to find an Orthodox girl (or a virtuous non-Orthodox Christian) without any help or support, act chaste before marriage in a society that practically worships unchaste behavior, and do it without complaints. Where is the help? Where is the support? Is the Orthodox Church content to let their single members fall behind the rest of the flock? Because from my very frustrated vantage point, I feel like a sheep who has been left behind.

I'm out of options. I will keep praying and hold out hope that someone will come along, but if nobody does, I am actually scared that I might give in to the temptation of secular dating. So please pray for me, and if you are in a position to help single people at your parish, then please help them. Don't brush their concerns off, be a shoulder that they can lean on.

bèlla · Dec 20, 2019

I’m sorry you’re hurting and pray the Lord gives you peace.

~Bella

BarnyFyfe · Dec 20, 2019

Hi, there. I think posting here shows courage on your part. Being an Adventist I would imagine I'm the last one you'd expect to see replying in support. But what can I say? I'm moved by your candor. I don't know much about Orthodox demographics but if I were as serious as you seem to be about this I wouldn't hesitate to fast and pray seriously about relocating. Aren't there pockets of Orthodox density anywhere in America?

Not David · Dec 20, 2019

If it makes you feel better, I as a mestizo Hispanic will have less chance of finding an Orthodox wife.

Not David · Dec 20, 2019

GoingByzantine said:
I know I will probably regret posting this here, but this is about the only place that I can turn to with this. So here it goes.

I joined this forum when I was a baby-faced 20-year-old college student, trying to find my way in a very confusing world. Within months of joining this forum, I began to look towards the East, and though it was a long journey, I eventually became a full member of the Holy Orthodox Church. I don't for a minute regret my decision. Orthodoxy is full, and Orthodoxy is true - that is fact. I can thank this forum, in part, for teaching me that.

Yet, despite my love for Orthodoxy, recently I have begun to get frustrated with it as well.

I am almost 27 years old now, and while I have Christ - I also feel dreadfully alone. I want to get married, and I want to have a family, as most people do. I have followed all the advice laid out on this forum over the years. I have prayed. I have gotten deeply involved with parish life. I have never in my life had illicit relations with anyone, and I have always tried to treat people with love and respect. Yet, despite this, I have not been blessed to meet anyone who could be my partner.

I know what some of you are thinking, "oh great, another one of these threads." Yet, if you are thinking that way, do you actually know how hard it is to meet a single Orthodox person in the United States? Do you understand the pain that some of your fellow believers are going through with this issue? It's not a joking matter.

There is one lousy Orthodox dating website available that barely has any users on it, and there is a scattering of meetup events for undergraduate aged students to get together. That is it. If there are no Orthodox singles in your area and you are no longer a college student, then you are out of luck.

And that is where I get so frustrated. The Orthodox Church expects me to follow a set of moral rules that are very difficult to follow in the context of the United States. I have to find an Orthodox girl (or a virtuous non-Orthodox Christian) without any help or support, act chaste before marriage in a society that practically worships unchaste behavior, and do it without complaints. Where is the help? Where is the support? Is the Orthodox Church content to let their single members fall behind the rest of the flock? Because from my very frustrated vantage point, I feel like a sheep who has been left behind.

I'm out of options. I will keep praying and hold out hope that someone will come along, but if nobody does, I am actually scared that I might give in to the temptation of secular dating. So please pray for me, and if you are in a position to help single people at your parish, then please help them. Don't brush their concerns off, be a shoulder that they can lean on.

Also do you have friends or a established community? I don't thing finding a gf/wife will necessarily cure your loneliness.

BarnyFyfe · Dec 20, 2019

By the way, I'm sure you realize that difficulty like this is often God's way of preparing people for some special work or other blessed providence. You're still very young and time seems to stand still when you're young, so you hang in there, in any case. Loneliness can be eased by meditating on Scripture relating to God's ever-present and abiding care. You might consider seeking out a Priest/mentor who specializes in dealing with the challenges of devoted youth. Forgive me if I suggest things you've already considered and exhausted. I'm an old man.

All4Christ · Dec 20, 2019

Prayers for you.

I also converted alone when I was younger - about 23. I was blessed to find an Orthodox husband later on, though he was from another state! I know it is tough, and I don’t have an answer to the problem. I can say you aren’t alone, as I’ve seen the same thing, especially with young Orthodox men from what I’ve seen. My friend, an Orthodox guy around 27, finally found a sweet Orthodox girl who he has been dating, after years of searching. Another Orthodox guy friend still is searching.

All that said, the single members of the Church are definitely an important part and should not be brushed off. I’ve seen similar struggles for childless couples, especially for women. Most activities for women are related to being moms, which isolates some who aren’t or can’t be moms. All members of the Church should be valued, nurtured and encouraged, no matter our situation or stage of life.

BarnyFyfe · Dec 20, 2019

David Neos said:
If it makes you feel better, I as a mestizo Hispanic will have less chance of finding an Orthodox wife.

I think it's actually a serious post.

~Anastasia~ · Dec 21, 2019

I wish you could meet my goddaughter. But what I can say is that you certainly have a valid point. I don't know of any way to help except you have my prayers. And it seems like in our parish there is extreme interest taken by everyone to match up young singles. We just don't ever have enough of them. No more than a few at best, and they don't match up on important concerns or are in different life stages (we had several young ladies and young men off to college that are still a bit too young).

I think that's a big part of the reason why my goddaughter moved away. I understand there's a flourishing young people's group in place there (Tennessee) ... though some travel from other states to be part of it so they don't all live close together.

It's a definite valid concern though.

Not David · Dec 21, 2019

BarnyFyfe said:
I think it's actually a serious post.

And you think what I said isn't true?

Rescued One · Dec 21, 2019

David Neos said:
And you think what I said isn't true?

I believe you.

Rescued One · Dec 21, 2019

It isn't just religion that makes it hard. Sometimes it's personality, talking too much or too little, saying the wrong things, other people's intolerance, etc. The woman might think you're too full of yourself, or too introverted, have nothing in common.......ten milllion reasons. I remember even though I was married over forty years and am a widow.

Be sure you aren't negative telling people what annoys you or criticizing others when you're with someone.

Dale Carnegie said, "Don't criticize, condemn or complain." That's something we all should practice.

Mea Culpa · Dec 21, 2019

GoingByzantine said:
I know I will probably regret posting this here, but this is about the only place that I can turn to with this. So here it goes.

I joined this forum when I was a baby-faced 20-year-old college student, trying to find my way in a very confusing world. Within months of joining this forum, I began to look towards the East, and though it was a long journey, I eventually became a full member of the Holy Orthodox Church. I don't for a minute regret my decision. Orthodoxy is full, and Orthodoxy is true - that is fact. I can thank this forum, in part, for teaching me that.

Yet, despite my love for Orthodoxy, recently I have begun to get frustrated with it as well.

I am almost 27 years old now, and while I have Christ - I also feel dreadfully alone. I want to get married, and I want to have a family, as most people do. I have followed all the advice laid out on this forum over the years. I have prayed. I have gotten deeply involved with parish life. I have never in my life had illicit relations with anyone, and I have always tried to treat people with love and respect. Yet, despite this, I have not been blessed to meet anyone who could be my partner.

I know what some of you are thinking, "oh great, another one of these threads." Yet, if you are thinking that way, do you actually know how hard it is to meet a single Orthodox person in the United States? Do you understand the pain that some of your fellow believers are going through with this issue? It's not a joking matter.

There is one lousy Orthodox dating website available that barely has any users on it, and there is a scattering of meetup events for undergraduate aged students to get together. That is it. If there are no Orthodox singles in your area and you are no longer a college student, then you are out of luck.

And that is where I get so frustrated. The Orthodox Church expects me to follow a set of moral rules that are very difficult to follow in the context of the United States. I have to find an Orthodox girl (or a virtuous non-Orthodox Christian) without any help or support, act chaste before marriage in a society that practically worships unchaste behavior, and do it without complaints. Where is the help? Where is the support? Is the Orthodox Church content to let their single members fall behind the rest of the flock? Because from my very frustrated vantage point, I feel like a sheep who has been left behind.

I'm out of options. I will keep praying and hold out hope that someone will come along, but if nobody does, I am actually scared that I might give in to the temptation of secular dating. So please pray for me, and if you are in a position to help single people at your parish, then please help them. Don't brush their concerns off, be a shoulder that they can lean on.

]
My brother,
It is hard for anyone who follows Christ. But we are called to be Daniel's. Stay steadfast in a world that is after evil and calling it good. I know I was 36 before I got married, and that was after years of hoping, praying, and frankly giving up. But He is faithful. Seek Him, and He will give you the desires of your heart. You are not alone, don't give up, keep seeking Him, seek the face of Jesus, and He will be your sufficiency! He will lead and guide you. You are not alone!

buzuxi02 · Dec 21, 2019

Just put yourself out there. It doesnt matter whether she is Orthodox or not, you can cross that bridge when you get there. If you hit it off and have other things in common you'll be ok.

ArmyMatt · Dec 21, 2019

I became Orthodox at 23 at Penn State (one of the country's top party schools) and wasn't married til I was 30. my wife was from another state and we met through a mutual friend. it was hard for sure, but it was worth it I must say.

now, providing you don't compromise your Orthodoxy, who says as far as dating goes that you can't use secular dating sites? I suspect a lot of Christians use them. and, sometimes, folks convert because the person they are dating is their way in to Orthodoxy.

Platina · Dec 21, 2019

And I was only 21 when I converted at PSU and didn't get married until I was 32, so hang in there GoingByzantine. God always has your best in mind. Stay strong in your morals!

Phronema · Dec 21, 2019

buzuxi02 said:
Just put yourself out there. It doesnt matter whether she is Orthodox or not, you can cross that bridge when you get there. If you hit it off and have other things in common you'll be ok.

This is what I was thinking as I read the OP. In the US where the Orthodox numbers are fairly low this seems to be the route to go if one can't specifically find an Orthodox spouse, imo. That said, I'd try to find a spouse who wasn't atheist, or agnostic as that would present a whole different set of challenges.

@GoingByzantine - Ideally I'd try to find a Christian spouse who may be open to the idea of Orthodoxy, but if not at least a Christian spouse, but with other things in common as buzuxi has mentioned.

All4Christ · Dec 21, 2019

Phronema said:
This is what I was thinking as I read the OP. In the US where the Orthodox numbers are fairly low this seems to be the route to go if one can't specifically find an Orthodox spouse, imo. That said, I'd try to find a spouse who wasn't atheist, or agnostic as that would present a whole different set of challenges.

@GoingByzantine - Ideally I'd try to find a Christian spouse who may be open to the idea of Orthodoxy, but if not at least a Christian spouse, but with other things in common as buzuxi has mentioned.

Some other important things to remember are the willingness of the spouse to allow children to be baptized and raised in the Orthodox Church, trinitarian baptism, willingness to be married in the church, etc.

While the Church allows for marriages between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians (baptized Trinitarian), the Church does not allow for marriage to spouses who are atheist, agnostic, or non-Trinitarian or unbaptized Christians. It also requires marriage in the Church, as well as baptism and raising of the children in the Orthodox faith. If a person marries outside of these guidelines, he or she may be prevented from communion or other sacraments in the Church. While this situation is not uncommon in America, there still are challenges with non-Orthodox (especially non-Christian) relationships, and these requirements should be considered from the beginning of the relationship.

I've seen marriages here with Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians that are successful, though they have varying degrees of challenges depending on the faith, denomination or church of the non-Orthodox spouse. I've also seen situations where it did not work out easily. Most of these challenging situations, were marriages where the spouse's faith did not allow for understanding or acceptance of the Orthodox spouse practicing faith in its fullness, or situations where the points I mentioned above weren't considered or were ignored.

anna ~ grace · Dec 21, 2019

All4Christ said:
Some other important things to remember are the willingness of the spouse to allow children to be baptized and raised in the Orthodox Church, trinitarian baptism, willingness to be married in the church, etc.

While the Church allows for marriages between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians (baptized Trinitarian), the Church does not allow for marriage to spouses who are atheist, agnostic, or non-Trinitarian or unbaptized Christians. It also requires marriage in the Church, as well as baptism and raising of the children in the Orthodox faith. If a person marries outside of these guidelines, he or she may be prevented from communion or other sacraments in the Church. While this situation is not uncommon in America, there still are challenges with non-Orthodox (especially non-Christian) relationships, and these requirements should be considered from the beginning of the relationship.

Forgive me for posting here. But this is a good point.

There are also dangers in finding a very nice, kind Christian in a generic or non-denom sense, and hoping to pull them into an Apostolic Church. There are problems here. The practices and beliefs of Apostolic Faith can be very confusing or off-putting for many Protestants. Marian veneration, a correct understanding of the Communion of Saints, relics, Liturgy, prayers, Tradition, multiple things can cause problems. And this can cause resistance, fights, tension, or one spouse to feel dragged against their will or wishes one way or the other.

I can imagine with kids involved and "do we have them baptized at St. George's or dedicated at Messiah Baptist?" will cause more problems. Just saying. God bless you, Going Byzantine, and may God provide you with a sweet, loving, Godly Orthodox wife if it is His will, in His time.

~Anastasia~ · Dec 21, 2019

I think there is nothing wrong with considering a non-Orthodox (Christian) person to date at the start. Many people might BE Orthodox if they knew about the faith.

You want someone serious in their faith anyway. But in the early stages of dating, is a good time to sort these things out. Do be very careful not to let your emotions sway you to a person who actively resists Orthodoxy. My husband was very anti-Orthodox when I converted and it has been very difficult. He is still resistant (I don't push) but he has softened. Still there is no reason to borrow trouble since you are at the point of choosing - you don't have to go through what I have.

I once met a young man who was Catholic who was interested in me. He was actually pretty pious, and I remember he gave me materials to learn about Catholicism and we chatted a little. I considered myself Christian then but was weak in faith and uninformed, and I would have considered Catholicism at that point for his sake. Anyway - we didn't continue to a real relationship. But in the early stages it's a fine topic to discuss and you might find someone open. My goddaughter converted after first being introduced to Orthodoxy by s young man, though they didn't continue a real relationship either.

It's one more thing you have to sort out before deciding someone may be suitable. But it does widen your pool of potential women exponentially.

Prayers for you. (I still wish you could meet my goddaughter! Though I'm finding she is highly selective too.

- nothing wrong with that. Marriage is supposed to be for life after all.)

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