His sheep hear His voice??????

K2K · Dec 16, 2019

For the first 40 years of my life I did not hear His voice. I clearly remember the first time I did hear His voice. It was powerful when suddenly one morning right after waking up I heard "READ YOUR BIBLE". It surprised and shocked me in a big way. My parents had taken my to church when I was a kid and I never got the impression what anyone was hearing His voice. I'm sure that is not true with every church, but that was the impression I had gotten then.

So I read the Bible and weird things started happening, like dreams, visions, and other strange spiritual feeling and intuitions, but it was a while later (about nine months) before I came to really understand about hearing His voice. It happened when I tested an idea that if everyone thought God could hear their prayer even if they were made inside them, then He must also be able to communicate back with us the same way. It worked. It wasn't at first easy to determine if what I got back was my thoughts or His Spirit, and that can still be a problem, but it isn't that hard either.

His thoughts are not our thoughts so I just have to realize what my thoughts were, then ask Him, and responses came back that were clearly not mine and clearly better thinking than mine. OK, it wasn't always so clear it was better thinking than mine. Sometimes I do just have to go with it because I asked Him and I picked up a thought like a small voice that was not mine. So unless it was clearly worse than my thoughts I would go with it. Then it usually became very clear that it must be His thoughts.

Now I practiced doing that quite a bit. Not always, but I tried to make a habit of it and picking up His voice as opposed to my ideas became easier and easier. Albeit I also found out that the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out and about. It didn't make sense to stop seeking the Lord Jesus Christ, but I had to start getting better at discerning between spirits. I figured out a lot of things by practicing hearing with my spiritual hears. There is not enough time to discuss that here and now, but the more I sought Him and His words to me via His Holy Spirit the better I got at it, though I still have to walk carefully with it.

Now here is what gets me: It still mostly seems that the churches I go to don't explain this to others. My conclusion is that for the most part they, as His sheep, don't hear His voice!! Not like they should. I know that I don't hear His voice like I should either, but I at least can see that about me.

I know the value of hearing from Him even when I don't. So I point people to Jesus Christ; meaning that we need to hear His voice. I do that partly because I need to remember that, and partly because it is the best advice for them also.

So "HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE" is as much a question as a statement. Do we? Do we hear His voice? Honestly, I am not so sure about that; having been to many churches in the last 20 years since He came into my life.

anna ~ grace · Dec 16, 2019

Very few people actually get to hear the voice of Christ, though I believe some do. For the most part, we hear His voice by hearing His commands, living by them, and living a life that is Christ-like, and not selfish, or worldly.

crossnote · Dec 16, 2019

If we heard (His) a voice apart from His Word, how would we know it was His voice and not that of a false spirit?

~Anastasia~ · Dec 17, 2019

Several points come to mind.

First, we can't say "God always acts in xyz way" because He interacts with and grows each of us individually in what ways are best for each of us.

Second we must be VERY VERY careful of what we "hear". Even if it tells us to do "good" things. The enemy isn't stupid but is very clever, and knows how to mix in enough truth to deceive us. It often happens that the enemy appears "as an angel of light" ... seeming to promote holiness ... long enough to get a person trusting him before turning the tables. Many have fallen into this trap. (And I don't mean Satan himself but many evil spirits are capable of this.)

Thirdly, and much more commonly is my guess, is that God DOES lead people gently at first, and clearly. But we must beware that there usually comes a time when we are to grow up a bit and not have such hand-holding. Knowing from God becomes less sure, our own voice steps in, the enemy often interferes at this stage, and we need to learn discernment. Depending on what God desires to teach us, this can be very difficult.

Bottom line is that we are best to be skeptical. When we become confident in our "hearing" is usually when we are most at risk. Anytime such things happen, we need to learn to be VERY careful. God won't blame us for that. But if we fall into a deadly trap (and it sometimes happens to seasoned Christians) ... it can be hard or even impossible to recover.

Best thing we can do is study to recognize even tiny deviations when/if they happen, and learn the tactics of the enemy. The biggest warning sign is anything that tempts us to the least spiritual pride, but there are other pitfalls as well.

com7fy8 · Dec 17, 2019

Jesus says we hear His voice. So, this is not for only certain sheep. It is not a status thing to show off to others or to use to look down on others and criticize them for not being so right like we are. Jesus is personally caring and sharing with each of us.

But our character has a lot to do with if we can hear His voice. Ones can hear words of the Bible, but not in the voice of Jesus. Satan has personally talked with Jesus, but I can see how Satan was not getting Christ's words in the right voice, the right spirit.

Jesus Christ's voice has to do with how His love is. Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" (in Matthew 11:28-30). The tone and spirit of His voice, then, is gentle and humble in His love. So, we become able to hear Him and obey Him the way He means by what He says, by being gentle and humble in His love >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Francis Drake · Dec 17, 2019

I agree with everything you say, but as you will see by the replies here, most Christians immediately throw cold water on the idea of God speaking today, or us hearing his voice.

I started hearing God speak back in the 1960s, and have been hearing that voice one way or another ever since. His voice is to me the most vital part of living on earth, and knowing his voice, feeds my spirit!

The church and most Christians, even on this forum, will go to great lengths to dissuade people from such expectations.
They will warn you that it's not God, but demons.
They will tell you the only words of God you need are already written in the bible.

But any if earthly father refused to speak to his children, he would be condemned as an abusive father.
Those who claim it's demons, not God speaking, have elevated demons on a higher plane than God.

And as for those who claim that every last word that God would speak to us, are already written in the bible, do they not see how they are stifling God, and imposed their paltry human ideology on the creator of all things?
There are thousands of ungodly writers out there today who have written many many times more than God has apparently written, often with their "inspiration" coming directly from Satan!

The reason so few hear God speaking, is directly linked to their unbelief. They reject the idea of God's voice, and as such, they bear its fruit of deafness.

splish- splash · Dec 17, 2019

crossnote said:
If we heard (His) a voice apart from His Word, how would we know it was His voice and not that of a false spirit?

Yeh! I hear a voice too every now and again giving me scripture, direction, advice etc. However imnot big on voices, visions dreams etc because, how do I know it's not a deception by the enemy? If we search the scriptures as often as we should, we will learn to hear God speak in His word and above all, know the true character of our Father, so we dont see Him as some harsh angry God like people have tried to portray.

Francis Drake · Dec 17, 2019

At Your Footstool said:
Yeh! I hear a voice too every now and again giving me scripture, direction, advice etc. However imnot big on voices, visions dreams etc because, how do I know it's not a deception by the enemy?

There we go again, fear speaking instead of faith.
Why did Jesus say "My sheep hear my voice", if he didn't really mean it, or if it was dangerous for Christians to listen?
You don't learn to discern the difference between Christ and demons by just plugging your ears. Christians need to exercise their spiritual hearing, just like they exercise their reading of scripture.

If we search the scriptures as often as we should. We will learn to hear God speak in His word and above all, learn the know character of our Father.

You are making the mistake that God just quotes scriptures at us. In the majority if time I have heard God speak, quoting scriptures would have been utterly irrelevant and useless.

DennisTate · Dec 17, 2019

K2K said:
For the first 40 years of my life I did not hear His voice. I clearly remember the first time I did hear His voice. It was powerful when suddenly one morning right after waking up I heard "READ YOUR BIBLE". It surprised and shocked me in a big way. My parents had taken my to church when I was a kid and I never got the impression what anyone was hearing His voice. I'm sure that is not true with every church, but that was the impression I had gotten then.

So I read the Bible and weird things started happening, like dreams, visions, and other strange spiritual feeling and intuitions, but it was a while later (about nine months) before I came to really understand about hearing His voice. It happened when I tested an idea that if everyone thought God could hear their prayer even if they were made inside them, then He must also be able to communicate back with us the same way. It worked. It wasn't at first easy to determine if what I got back was my thoughts or His Spirit, and that can still be a problem, but it isn't that hard either.

His thoughts are not our thoughts so I just have to realize what my thoughts were, then ask Him, and responses came back that were clearly not mine and clearly better thinking than mine. OK, it wasn't always so clear it was better thinking than mine. Sometimes I do just have to go with it because I asked Him and I picked up a thought like a small voice that was not mine. So unless it was clearly worse than my thoughts I would go with it. Then it usually became very clear that it must be His thoughts.

Now I practiced doing that quite a bit. Not always, but I tried to make a habit of it and picking up His voice as opposed to my ideas became easier and easier. Albeit I also found out that the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out and about. It didn't make sense to stop seeking the Lord Jesus Christ, but I had to start getting better at discerning between spirits. I figured out a lot of things by practicing hearing with my spiritual hears. There is not enough time to discuss that here and now, but the more I sought Him and His words to me via His Holy Spirit the better I got at it, though I still have to walk carefully with it.

Now here is what gets me: It still mostly seems that the churches I go to don't explain this to others. My conclusion is that for the most part they, as His sheep, don't hear His voice!! Not like they should. I know that I don't hear His voice like I should either, but I at least can see that about me.

I know the value of hearing from Him even when I don't. So I point people to Jesus Christ; meaning that we need to hear His voice. I do that partly because I need to remember that, and partly because it is the best advice for them also.

So "HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE" is as much a question as a statement. Do we? Do we hear His voice? Honestly, I am not so sure about that; having been to many churches in the last 20 years since He came into my life.

Wow!!!!

Way to go!

I believe you and think that you are going through something very similar to what near death experiencers Kevin Zadai and Dean Braxton report.

DennisTate · Dec 17, 2019

K2K said:
For the first 40 years of my life I did not hear His voice. I clearly remember the first time I did hear His voice. It was powerful when suddenly one morning right after waking up I heard "READ YOUR BIBLE". It surprised and shocked me in a big way. My parents had taken my to church when I was a kid and I never got the impression what anyone was hearing His voice. I'm sure that is not true with every church, but that was the impression I had gotten then.

So I read the Bible and weird things started happening, like dreams, visions, and other strange spiritual feeling and intuitions, but it was a while later (about nine months) before I came to really understand about hearing His voice. It happened when I tested an idea that if everyone thought God could hear their prayer even if they were made inside them, then He must also be able to communicate back with us the same way. It worked. It wasn't at first easy to determine if what I got back was my thoughts or His Spirit, and that can still be a problem, but it isn't that hard either.

His thoughts are not our thoughts so I just have to realize what my thoughts were, then ask Him, and responses came back that were clearly not mine and clearly better thinking than mine. OK, it wasn't always so clear it was better thinking than mine. Sometimes I do just have to go with it because I asked Him and I picked up a thought like a small voice that was not mine. So unless it was clearly worse than my thoughts I would go with it. Then it usually became very clear that it must be His thoughts.

Now I practiced doing that quite a bit. Not always, but I tried to make a habit of it and picking up His voice as opposed to my ideas became easier and easier. Albeit I also found out that the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out and about. It didn't make sense to stop seeking the Lord Jesus Christ, but I had to start getting better at discerning between spirits. I figured out a lot of things by practicing hearing with my spiritual hears. There is not enough time to discuss that here and now, but the more I sought Him and His words to me via His Holy Spirit the better I got at it, though I still have to walk carefully with it.

Now here is what gets me: It still mostly seems that the churches I go to don't explain this to others. My conclusion is that for the most part they, as His sheep, don't hear His voice!! Not like they should. I know that I don't hear His voice like I should either, but I at least can see that about me.

I know the value of hearing from Him even when I don't. So I point people to Jesus Christ; meaning that we need to hear His voice. I do that partly because I need to remember that, and partly because it is the best advice for them also.

So "HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE" is as much a question as a statement. Do we? Do we hear His voice? Honestly, I am not so sure about that; having been to many churches in the last 20 years since He came into my life.

If you listen to this sermon from about the 1:40:00 mark you will hear about how we are now in an Open Heaven...... and we will see unusual things this Christmas. People being healed before they are saved.... and people crying when they hear Christmas carols.

splish- splash · Dec 17, 2019

Francis Drake said:
There we go again, fear speaking instead of faith.
Why did Jesus say "My sheep hear my voice", if he didn't really mean it, or if it was dangerous for Christians to listen?
You don't learn to discern the difference between Christ and demons by just plugging your ears. Christians need to exercise their spiritual hearing, just like they exercise their reading of scripture.

You are making the mistake that God just quotes scriptures at us. In the majority if time I have heard God speak, quoting scriptures would have been utterly irrelevant and useless.

No pressure. I was simply sharing stuff that I have experienced personally and wasn't referring to scripture alone. This is why I went on to mention advice and direction, because I sometimes receive specific advice in relation to the matter at hand and does not contain a single bit of scripture in it. I'm sure with time, I will get better at discerning whos who in the Spirit by His Grace.

K2K · Dec 17, 2019

It is always interesting when I try to talk to "Christians" about hearing from the Lord.

1) Some seem to think and worry that it might be a demon. Don't we know that God put both good and evil before us. So yeah, it could be a Demon or it could be from God. Yet that is going on whether you know it or not - isn't it??? So not listening, is comparable to the proverbial Ostrich with your head in the sand!! That is exactly how Satan wants you!

Remember the first words that snake said? "Did God really say..." And that is often exact what I hear from "Christian" when I tell them I hear from the Lord. How many times on the posts since the OP has "Did God really say" been brought up in one way or anther already?

In the OP I brought up how with practice (listening) we get better at discerning between good and evil. Do you need a verse? Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

So practice using your spiritual senses in seeking first the Kingdom of God, which of course is where you find the King of kings, Jesus Christ. Use all of them, but specifically we preach The Word of God, because His words are spirit and are life to us. Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who give life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

2) Another thing I get when I talk about hearing from the Lord is the attitude that hearing from Him via the small voice of His is a rare thing. I knew a pastor who told me and the group we were at that he had only heard the small voice of the Lord twice, after I told the group that I hear from my Lord daily. Is that how it is supposed to be?

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

I have often had Him taking to me just like that - tell me when to turn to the right or to the left as I drive down the road. He often has taken me out to yard sales on Saturday morning. It becomes a combination teaching time, ministering time, and shopping together time. Yet to get me to the right places at the right times it requires that I continually listen to Him, and it requires Him telling me when to turn to the right or to the left. It becomes great practice on hearing from Him.

My friends, there is a very specific day that we need to hear His voice!! That day is "Today"!!!
If you have not heard Him "Today" and everyday you once called "Today" then don't you need to reconsider you position on hearing from Him?

Heb 3:7 Therefor, just as the Holy Spirit says, "Today if you hear His voice..."
Heb 3:15 while it is said, "Today if you hear His voice..."
Heb 4:7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today", saying through David after so long a time just as has been said befor, "Today if you hear His voice..."
Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today"

We should not be bring a message about hearing from Him any less than everyday that is called "Today"

It amazes me, that I do hear from Him everyday. I say that because some days get angry at Him and don't really want to hear from Him. Yesterday became one of those days. I got called in for jury duty, and I already had been schedule to cover a prayer room, and I have a business that I do and have to get out lots of orders this time of year, and especially on Monday a week of so before Christmas. I was sooooo busy, and was feeling a bit upset with Him because of the circumstances.

He tried to talk to me in the jury waiting room, saying to me quite cheerfully, "Karl, this is a good time for us to talk." To which I responded, "Get lost". I was upset. I had gone to one place, to be sent to another place, to wait in two incredibly long lines so that there could be 50 to 70 jurors for a particular case so that they might choose 12. And then it got settled right before the case! Couldn't it have been settled last week? No, they have to wait to the last minute to try and get every advantage, and bring in way more people than need to again get every advantage, and nobody is listening to the Lord, so why should I -- I was thinking. But He shows up very cheerful.

Of course that didn't stop Him. In the prayer ministry later I was telling Him that He must be so disappointed with me, to which He instantly responded "Oh No Karl. I am so pleased with you." and He went on a reminded me of what I do for Him and how I did listen to Him at times.

So when yesterday was called "Today" I heard from Him. How could "Christians" be thinking that hearing from Him is a rare thing? And why do other "Christians" think that hearing form God must mean it is the devil? Is it because our pastors often have not or only rarely hear from Him.

The Hebrews knew the Scriptures but to them it was written: Heb 5:11,2 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, wince you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God .

We Christians are grafted into the Jews root, Jesus Christ! but if we don't practice seeking Him to see what He has to say to us we become dull of hearing. That is too often what I encounter, and it is quite discouraging, when we should be encourage each other to hear His voice "Today".

Francis Drake · Dec 17, 2019

At Your Footstool said:
No pressure. I was simply sharing stuff that I have experienced personally and wasn't referring to scripture alone. This is why I went on to mention advice and direction, because I sometimes receive specific advice in relation to the matter at hand and does not contain a single bit of scripture in it. I'm sure with time, I will get better at discerning whos who in the Spirit by His Grace.

I am confident you will get better at discerning His voice, particularly if take time out to listen.
I have made lots of mistakes in my hearing over the years, but that's just a part of fine tuning, and learning.
The most important thing is that God desires us to do this, as listening with our spirit is far more important than listening with our intellect.

K2K · Dec 18, 2019

Francis Drake said:
I am confident you will get better at discerning His voice, particularly if take time out to listen.
I have made lots of mistakes in my hearing over the years, but that's just a part of fine tuning, and learning.
The most important thing is that God desires us to do this, as listening with our spirit is far more important than listening with our intellect.

The above is some important to understand!!

We are pointing people to Jesus Christ! He wants a person relationship with us! So He said that He stood and the door and knocks and if anyone (ANYONE) hears His voice and opens the door He will come into us and eat with us and us with Him. (Rev 3:20) So it is that He is the Word of God. That is His name (Revv19:13) And if anyone believes in Him they will be saved (Jn 3:16) Thus that belief shows up in His sheep hearing His voice (Jn 10: 27)

Still, I didn't know all those verses when He came into my life and told me, "Read Your Bible" - and that statement by Him showed that He was not the Bible but the One who talked to me about it. And He is of course not limited to talking to you about the Bible! Your life is not made up of Scriptures but of relationships, work, play, chores, and various other things that you do. So why do people only think or even mostly think He is going to talk to you about the Bible and think that a conversation with Him must be about the Bible?

I like talking to the Lord about my son's soccer team. I like talking to the Lord about my business. I like talking to Him about what I should buy for myself and others. I like talking to Him about everything in my life. So I hear Him, but what about other Christians? What do they talk to Him about? Do they even spend much time seeking after Him? It is written that if you seek first the Kingdom of God 'all these things will be added to you'. All what things? The clothes you need, the food you need, and the things in this life that you need. So if you seek the Kingdom of God, which includes the King, you are going to hear about the things you need in this world! But what if you don't?

He has me helping in a Christian prayer room. I monitor it and pray in it, while other Christians come in to pray to the Lord also. Sometime, very often in fact, the Lord has me doing things for Him. One day He suddenly started telling me about a bad elbow this lady had. We have prayer request cards available in the room and He had me take two of them over to her, because He said she had a bad elbow and she was praying for another person that also needed prayer.

So I approached her with the cards and asked if by change she or someone she knew had a bad elbow. Because we see through a glass darkly, I find it best to be a bit vague about what I have heard. Yes, she had a bad elbow. In fact she had lost her job because of that bad elbow and was unemployed and needing help. Also she was praying for a friend in the hospital, but it did not seem like she was talking to the Lord about the elbow. So I gave her the two cards.

Yet -- I had to think about it afterwards - The Lord was telling me she needed prayer - and wasn't that because He wanted it healed? Yet she was asking the Lord to heal someone else but didn't seem to be asking for herself when she needed healing very bad, and now a new job also.

My friends, if we don't learn to start talking to Him about the little things in our life - like what clothes to wear, what food to get, what things to do today, are we not then in danger of not seeking Him by faith when the more important things come along? Please start practicing seeking Him and what He has to say to you everyday.

It is more important to make your prayer time about listening to what He has to say to you than about what you have to say to Him!!!

aiki · Dec 18, 2019

So, this matter of hearing God is of particular interest to me at present. Many of my fellow Christians have taken up very unbiblical notions about discerning God's communications to them and are urging myself and others to do the same.

In the record of Scripture, when God had something to say to someone, He never failed to say it to them. Whether it was by a burning bush, or a visit from an angel, or via a prophet, or dream, or vision, or a disembodied hand writing on a wall, or knocking a man down and blinding him, God always succeeded in communicating to people what He wanted to communicate. So, then, what's all this business about "learning to hear God's voice"? Where is that taught in Scripture and where do we see God speaking so mysteriously and obscurely that a person has to train first in order to hear what God has to say to them? No where. At all. If the pattern of Scripture holds (and there is absolutely no good reason to think it doesn't), when God has something to say to you directly, you will not be able to mistake what He is saying and that HE is saying it. If you aren't sure, then, that God has spoken to you, He hasn't.

The Bible is called God's word for a good reason. It is God's primary revelation of Himself and His will to us. In Scripture, we find divine wisdom, spiritual principles, eternal truths, precious promises, and universal commands. Paul wrote to Timothy that the man of God is thoroughly furnished unto all good works by divinely-inspired Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Being so completely and perfectly equipped by God with all of these things, what need do we have of constant, special, additional communications from God? God has spoken to us already in His word and He expects that we will listen, obey and apply it to our lives. When we do, we find that "hearing from God" in the mystical, hyper-Charismatic way, is not at all necessary. As King David wrote, God's word is a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path (Psalms 119:105), not some hard-to-hear divine voice speaking privately and directly to a person in their head.

Francis Drake · Dec 19, 2019

aiki said:
So, then, what's all this business about "learning to hear God's voice"? Where is that taught in Scripture and where do we see God speaking so mysteriously and obscurely that a person has to train first in order to hear what God has to say to them? No where. At all. If the pattern of Scripture holds (and there is absolutely no good reason to think it doesn't), when God has something to say to you directly, you will not be able to mistake what He is saying and that HE is saying it. If you aren't sure, then, that God has spoken to you, He hasn't.

In the above statement, you have just proved the opposite of what you say. ie. God does speak, but unbelief means it goes completely over your head.
Since the 1960s God has spoken to me countless times in plain clear sense, but on far more occasions I have had to interpret the meanings of his words, visions and dreams, just like the disciples did.
In the following, Jesus gave a simple warning that the disciples were completely oblivious to. Like most Christians the disciples were so spiritually blind, they could only see things from a materialistic earthly perspective.
They needed to learn how Jesus speaks, otherwise they would remain deaf and blind like most Christians today.
Matt16v6Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
After Jesus ascended, the disciples would look at his teachings and realise how much the had completely misunderstood because of their hardness of heart and their little faith.

A classic example of that is Peter's vision on the roof top. Peter initially took it literally, and refused to heed what the Lord was saying, because it offended his rational interpretation of the Law. On that occasion, it had to be repeated 3 times before he finally let go of his rational thinking, and understood with his heart. That principle is written throughout the NT, and it still applies when God speaks today.
Ignoring it guarantees Christians remaining blind and deaf when God speaks today.

The Bible is called God's word for a good reason.

It might help to realise that the word of God is Jesus himself, not your bible.

It is God's primary revelation of Himself and His will to us. In Scripture, we find divine wisdom, spiritual principles, eternal truths, precious promises, and universal commands. Paul wrote to Timothy that the man of God is thoroughly furnished unto all good works by divinely-inspired Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Being so completely and perfectly equipped by God with all of these things, what need do we have of constant, special, additional communications from God?

Only a complete fool would reject out of hand such "special, additional communications from God". Christians need that today just as much as everyone else in scripture did.

ie.Acts16v9 During the night Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, "Come over to Macedonia and help us."
If this scripture was applied verbatim today, all evangelists would be swarming over Macedonia and that place would be the most Godly nation on earth. Instead, if believers were open to God doing what he did for Paul, they would be able to receive directly from God, where He particularly wanted them to go, and with a far greater success than just following their own man made program.

God has spoken to us already in His word and He expects that we will listen, obey and apply it to our lives. When we do, we find that "hearing from God" in the mystical, hyper-Charismatic way, is not at all necessary. As King David wrote, God's word is a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path (Psalms 119:105),

This is an amusing perspective, given that King David spent his whole life in close communion with the Lord in visions prophecy and generally hearing God's voice. I hope you realise that when David said those words, he wasn't reading from the book of psalms! He was speaking prophetically as he was receiving from the Lord.
To quote David as an example of someone who just looked to historic scriptures as his guide is naïve to say the least.

not some hard-to-hear divine voice speaking privately and directly to a person in their head.

As long as you maintain that hardness of heart, God's voice will always remain hard to hear, just like it was for the disciples.
There are countless believers out there, who have chosen to listen for that still small voice of the Lord.
In doing so, have found that their hearing has grown and become more fine tuned. They have found a delight in knowing what the Lord would say to them personally, as an individual.
In my case, the Lord took me into industry. He gave me visions and words for business plans that could never ever be found reading the bible. He showed me product designs and ideas that profoundly affected everything I did.
My whole business was built on prophecy and vision, and it became a haven for spiritual warfare and ministry that affected countless people's lives.

aiki · Dec 19, 2019

Francis Drake said:
In the above statement, you have just proved the opposite of what you say. ie. God does speak, but unbelief means it goes completely over your head.

Yes, I hear this a lot from people such as yourself. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I think its baloney.

I never said "God doesn't speak." I pointed out quite the opposite actually. My comments were focused on the way God speaks, not on whether or not He speaks at all.

Francis Drake said:
Since the 1960s God has spoken to me countless times in plain clear sense, but on far more occasions I have had to interpret the meanings of his words, visions and dreams, just like the disciples did.

Uh huh.

Francis Drake said:
In the following, Jesus gave a simple warning that the disciples were completely oblivious to. Like most Christians the disciples were so spiritually blind, they could only see things from a materialistic earthly perspective.
They needed to learn how Jesus speaks, otherwise they would remain deaf and blind like most Christians today.

None of this is in the passage you cited from Matthew. The disciples didn't go through a special training process to figure out what Jesus meant about the "leaven of the Pharisees." Instead, Jesus just straight-out tells them what he meant. And this is how God works: He is not interested in being mysterious and causing confusion in His own children (1 Corinthians 14:33) The disciples did not have to learn to "hear" Jesus; when they were confused, Jesus explained things to them. (Matthew 13:1-23; Mark 4:33-34)

Francis Drake said:
A classic example of that is Peter's vision on the roof top. Peter initially took it literally, and refused to heed what the Lord was saying, because it offended his rational interpretation of the Law. On that occasion, it had to be repeated 3 times before he finally let go of his rational thinking, and understood with his heart.

No where in the story are we told that Peter "let go of his rational thinking and understood with his heart." And this is because Scripture warns:

Proverbs 28:26
26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walks wisely, he shall be delivered.

It wasn't that Peter was overcoming his rationality in the story (which is a bizarre idea) but that he was overcoming the strictures of his upbringing as a Jew.

Francis Drake said:
That principle is written throughout the NT, and it still applies when God speaks today.

Oh? I know of no place in Scripture where it says, "Let go of rationality and understand with your heart." Instead, God says to us in His word,

"Come now and let us reason together, says the Lord..." (Isaiah 1:18)

Acts 17:10-11
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Romans 7:25
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God...

Acts 17:2
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And so on.

Francis Drake said:
Ignoring it guarantees Christians remaining blind and deaf when God speaks today.

Actually, espousing such a view makes you unbiblical and highly susceptible to being deceived.

Francis Drake said:
It might help to realise that the word of God is Jesus himself, not your bible.

Jesus is the Word - capital W - of God and Scripture is the word - lower case w - of God. The former is a living Being, the latter a book. I don't have them at all confused. Do you?

Francis Drake said:
Only a complete fool would reject out of hand such "special, additional communications from God". Christians need that today just as much as everyone else in scripture did.

Ad hominem attacks don't help your case any. Such attacks just make you look desperate and insecure in your views.

I have not rejected "out-of-hand" the "special, additional communications from God" that hyper-Charismatics are so eager to pursue. I gave a scriptural basis for why I have rejected such communications. How is my rejection, then, "out-of-hand"? It's not.

I notice that you've not addressed directly the point I made to which you're responding in the above quotation.

No person in the time of the writing of the New Testament had the entire canon of Scripture available to them as we do today. This makes a crucial difference to what expectations believers should have of how God communicates with them. With all of the wisdom, truth, commands, principles and promises of God's word, the Christian today has no need of a special, new "word from the Lord." Generally, God has nothing to say to us that He hasn't already said to us in Scripture.

Francis Drake said:
This is an amusing perspective, given that King David spent his whole life in close communion with the Lord in visions prophecy and generally hearing God's voice.

Oh? Where in Scripture do you read, "And King David spent his whole life in visions, prophecy and generally hearing God's voice"? When we read of David's life, we read a very abridged version of it that highlights those parts of his life relevant to the purposes of Scripture. There are massive spans of time in David's life about which we know nothing. In light of this, I would be careful about making sweeping generalizations about David's life. And, regardless, Scripture never says, "And what was true of David ought to be true of all Christians in all times." Description does not necessarily equate to prescription.

It sounds like you're challenging David's claim about God's word being a light unto his path and lamp to his feet. Are you? Is David's claim "amusing" to you? Was he just foolishly contradicting himself? Or are you, perhaps, the one with the mistaken understanding?

What is "amusing" is that all you know of David's life you must glean from Scripture. How...ironic that you would use the thing that you want to diminish in support of your diminishment of it.

Francis Drake said:
As long as you maintain that hardness of heart, God's voice will always remain hard to hear, just like it was for the disciples.

Nope. My understanding of this matter is firmly anchored to Scripture. Yours...not so much. Again, where in Scripture do you read one must train to properly hear God's voice? Where in Scripture do we see such a process occurring? No where. But we do see burning bushes, and angels visiting, and dreams and visions, and a disembodied hand writing on a wall, and so on. God's not obscuring His will. If He's got something to say to somebody, He'll say it in such a way that it can't be missed or mistaken for something else. This isn't the case with this "voice in my head" stuff. There's one's own self-talk and demonic counterfeit that can easily be mistaken for God speaking in one's mind.

Francis Drake said:
There are countless believers out there, who have chosen to listen for that still small voice of the Lord.

There are countless believers out there who have been deceived into thinking God always speaks with a "still small voice." All that God wants us to know about His will and way, He has already revealed to us in His word, the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Psalms 19:7-11
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Psalm 119:11
11 Your word have I hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against you.

Psalm 119:105
105 Your word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

K2K · Dec 19, 2019

Should we spend our whole life in "visions, prophecy, and generally hearing God's voice?"

Jesus said explained that He did and said only what the Father told Him, and isn't He supposed to be the perfect example?

We like to use 'WWJD' to mean what you Jesus do. So is the "David" we are looking to as our example the king David in the old testament or Jesus Christ? Who are we trying to be like? The king David in the Old testament wasn't even allowed by God to build a temple because of his ways, but his son Solomon was left to do that.

Now Paul explained that he did count himself as having achieved the goal, and I don't think anyone of us should think they have, but the goal is to be like Jesus who did and said only what the Father told Him; which would mean that He spent His "whole life in visions, prophecy, and generally hearing God's (the Father's) voice.

Everyday I hear my Lord's voice. Yet because of that I am very aware how far short I fall!! I get busy, and do what I think is right instead of constantly seeking Him and what He has to say. I sometime even get upset with things and sometimes don't even want to hear His voice. Other times I have trouble finding the faith to believe I can even hear Him on certain topics. There are so many reasons I can come up with for not seeking His voice and listening. And amazingly sometimes I come up with the ridiculously poor excuse that goes - 'Well, they are not listening to you Lord, so why should I' and I tell Him that.

I am so silly at times. I am just a person, like other people, and when I look at myself and the way I think. When I honestly look at what I think and even say, I have to conclude that I should have been seeking Him and doing and saying only what He tells me, just like Jesus does. I am not Jesus Christ, but I can hear from Him and make being like Him my goal, with the realization that, like Paul, I have not achieved it but press on.

If that is what I think - that I should try to spend my "whole life in visions, prophecy, and generally hearing God's voice", even though I see I can't fully achieve that - then shouldn't that also be my advice to others?

My friends, try to make it your goal to walk and talk with the Lord all the time and certainly everyday that is called "Today". That is what we are asked to do. That is our goal. And do not harden your heart like those before us. Do not buy into your own foolish excuses for not seeking the voice of the Lord your God, Jesus Christ!

Heb 3:7,8 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS...

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today"...

We are supposed to be encouraging one another to hear from Him "Today"! Is that what we are doing?

Eha · Jan 12, 2020

K2K said:
So "HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE" is as much a question as a statement. Do we? Do we hear His voice? Honestly, I am not so sure about that; having been to many churches in the last 20 years since He came into my life.

Heavenly Father told me - I talk with EVERYBODY EVERY DAY. All good ideas, sudden remembering, puzzle, that make a picture, 'feeling' someone is in trouble, 'just knowing' what to do, and so on and so on - even when you add salt or make soup - sudden good ideas, that give a best taste - it's from Him. When someone wants to hurt someone or even kill - EACH TIME HE/SHE FEEL/HEAR SOME WORDS OR FEELINGS, TRYING TO STOP HIM/HER!

Unfair accusing, that God doesn't do anything... He told me, that He is in ALL, He feel, when you have headache, He feel same, when someone are killing you, burning you alive... He are there with all people every day...Can you imagine He's pain?!

Just, when i asked, then why someone hear You well and someone doesn't?
And He told me - it's about distance. Didn't you try to scream someone something, who were to distance? Could they hear you? Same is with Me and people. Sin depart us and My voice become small whisper even just an feeling.

One day Father told me, that FEELINGS ARE BRIDGE BETWEEN PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL WORLD.

That's why you are given new heart and spirit, when accept Jesus into your life and as Savior and God . Not just spirit - but HEART too - where feelings come. Hate, love - with all my heart... isn't just saying.

So that way God also made our job from us! Even when we can't hear Him - we still can feel.

We feel somethings or right or wrong... because we yet can't hear Him clearly... or are too busy to listen... or don't believe He wants to talk with us... or.. are not worthy?

Eha · Jan 12, 2020

about sin that departs us - it is not your smoking, drinking, having problem with lust, and so on - it is all about growth.
I was at He's throne, when hated myself most!!! when nothing seemed right...

Sin that make He's voice small, is our careless. Stoning our hearts. 'Everybody do that..' turning away head, when someone acts rude to older, not saying 'stop' when some schoolboys teasing someone... passing through, when there is injustice and saying ' not my business'.

And one thing more - we usually want to listen, when we are in pain. I always say - then He is most close and easy to find! because, again, it is my experience and written in the Bible.

Thing is - He told me once - when you are in situation, that needs to resolved "asap', FIRST YOU NEED TO DO - IS - CALM DOWN!

Faith don't panic, faith don't scream, faith waits.

Hebrews 11:6
It’s impossible to please God without faith because the one who draws near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards people who try to find him.

So sometimes He remind quiet, because we scream to loud - and as with excellent behavior, He awaits us, to be silent, to speak out.

His sheep hear His voice??????

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