Who Wants To Live Forever? Ethics of Immortality

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Skreeper said:
I do not want to live forever, I don't even know if I want to keep living for the next 30-50 years.

I am at a point where I'm not actively suicidal, but if death would present itself I wouldn't be upset. Thinking about it I am still alive because I fear the process of dying and don't want to upset my family.

My life isn't exactly great, my creative prospects are somewhat stagnating and even job opportunities are drying up. It doesn't mean I want to give up: and death would be unfortunate, because I have so much I want to accomplish with my art.

But having a prospect of living long enough to see my friends and family die around me is also not pleasant to imagine (Highlander really pushed that point, hence partly the title of the thread is based on a song by the same name in the film)

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

Skreeper said:
I do not want to live forever, I don't even know if I want to keep living for the next 30-50 years.

I am at a point where I'm not actively suicidal, but if death would present itself I wouldn't be upset. Thinking about it I am still alive because I fear the process of dying and don't want to upset my family.

Paul felt the same way:

Philippians 1
"21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

You may be experiencing a deep yearning for true life. To think how much good Christ accomplished...and also His followers...and even they had no qualms about departing from this "vale of tears"...

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
Paul felt the same way:

Philippians 1
"21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

You may be experiencing a deep yearning for true life. To think how much good Christ accomplished...and also His followers...and even they had no qualms about departing from this "vale of tears"...

How is it true life when, if we're going with the justification for suffering being that to truly appreciate good, evil must exist, the ultimate end would be life with no death and thus you couldn't actually appreciate it fully?

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
How is it true life when, if we're going with the justification for suffering being that to truly appreciate good, evil must exist, the ultimate end would be life with no death and thus you couldn't actually appreciate it fully?

Found this cool song:

He is the True Life:

"And he said unto them, Take heed, and keep yourselves from all covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.—Luke 12:15."

John 14

"6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really know me, you will know b my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
Found this cool song:

He is the True Life:

"And he said unto them, Take heed, and keep yourselves from all covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.—Luke 12:15."

John 14

"6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really know me, you will know b my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

And how can you demonstrate that Jesus is this "true" life? Also, how is it even coherent to say that if you'd also, hypothetically, accept that we cannot appreciate good without understanding evil?

Where do you get the idea I place value of life in possessions at all? They're transient and they can be edifying, but yeah, my life is arguably more valuable in the grand scheme of things

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
And how can you demonstrate that Jesus is this "true" life? Also, how is it even coherent to say that if you'd also, hypothetically, accept that we cannot appreciate good without understanding evil?

Where do you get the idea I place value of life in possessions at all? They're transient and they can be edifying, but yeah, my life is arguably more valuable in the grand scheme of things

What do we truly possess and what does our life consist of...why is it (what?) more valuable than things?

Skreeper · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
Paul felt the same way:

Philippians 1
"21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

You may be experiencing a deep yearning for true life. To think how much good Christ accomplished...and also His followers...and even they had no qualms about departing from this "vale of tears"...

I have a deep yearning for a peaceful sleep but I wake up every time to this nightmare called life.

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
What do we truly possess and what does our life consist of...why is it (what?) more valuable than things?

We don't really possess anything permanently and that's why the idea of assigning absolute value to life in an eternal existence is problematic, because you're still clinging to something even if you've abandoned materialistic desires and such, you've just made a new idol in permanence of life

Norbert L · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
Too wide and you get into pure speculation with no real substance behind it or even a goal, where do you draw the line?

Being as objective as possible, the person looking in the mirror. The one who cries when bad things happen and becomes joyful when wonderous things happen. The person who has the proverbial angel on one shoulder whispering in his ear and a devil on the other shoulder putting words in the other ear. Does that person want to live forever? That's where I would draw the line.

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

That isn't objective when you're leaving it up the individual and not remotely trying to find a common standard or even slightly universal human experience? You ask me and you'll get one answer, but someone else who believes in an afterlife will have a different response, that leaves it purely subjective and/or relative

Just finished an anime where a character was feeling sad about her school life changing, her friends possibly being in different classes and likely moving away in the future. But it was the bonds of their connection they had gained that allowed them to realize that the temporary nature of something doesn't mean you should despair at them changing, because that friendship will remain constant in its own way distinct from events outside of their control or different paths they will take in life.

FireDragon76 · Dec 19, 2019

Skreeper said:
I have a deep yearning for a peaceful sleep but I wake up every time to this nightmare called life.

That sounds like depression.

Skreeper · Dec 19, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
That sounds like depression.

It is.

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
That isn't objective when you're leaving it up the individual and not remotely trying to find a common standard or even slightly universal human experience? You ask me and you'll get one answer, but someone else who believes in an afterlife will have a different response, that leaves it purely subjective and/or relative

Just finished an anime where a character was feeling sad about her school life changing, her friends possibly being in different classes and likely moving away in the future. But it was the bonds of their connection they had gained that allowed them to realize that the temporary nature of something doesn't mean you should despair at them changing, because that friendship will remain constant in its own way distinct from events outside of their control or different paths they will take in life.

Reminds me of another great song:

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
We don't really possess anything permanently and that's why the idea of assigning absolute value to life in an eternal existence is problematic, because you're still clinging to something even if you've abandoned materialistic desires and such, you've just made a new idol in permanence of life

Doesn't it work both ways though...on what basis do you do the adverse...do you really know that the life you dont possess is not worth living forever?

*how?

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
Doesn't it work both ways though...on what basis do you do the adverse...do you really know that the life you dont possess is not worth living forever?

*how?

Do I know with absolute certainty? No, but I'd say that's unrealistic anyway. And saying it isn't worth living forever is not the same as saying it's not worth living. The eternality is the problem, it isn't the solution, that serves as an opiate rather than acknowledging that our presumptions, desiring permanence, is not necessarily correct

Tone · Dec 19, 2019

muichimotsu said:
Do I know with absolute certainty? No, but I'd say that's unrealistic anyway. And saying it isn't worth living forever is not the same as saying it's not worth living. The eternality is the problem, it isn't the solution, that serves as an opiate rather than acknowledging that our presumptions, desiring permanence, is not necessarily correct

How is it a problem, either way? You believe that people's belief in eternal life keeps them from living to the fullest?

muichimotsu · Dec 19, 2019

Tone said:
How is it a problem, either way? You believe that people's belief in eternal life keeps them from living to the fullest?

Yes, because they're not valuing life in itself, only in what they idealize it to be in the future, or what they wish it to be

Who Wants To Live Forever? Ethics of Immortality

Would you want to live forever?

Yes (explain details in comment)

No (explain why)

I Spit On Perfection

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

I Spit On Perfection

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

I Spit On Perfection

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Well-Known Member

I Spit On Perfection

Well-Known Member

I Spit On Perfection

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

I Spit On Perfection

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

I Spit On Perfection

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