Christian Zionist "Replacement Theology"

sovereigngrace said:

It is “the election” that are saved. They are the remnant that belongs to God – His favor rests upon them. The rest are blind and are of their father the devil.

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This fact is Bible ABC, the current Jewish State of Israel is just another ungodly nation.

But the contention arises from people who have another agenda to promote. That is; a future Jewish redemption, as a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the church during the 3 1/2 year period of the Great Tribulation. They must have the Jews on earth, as they say; to be punished and then forgiven as they finally accept Jesus.
That none of these ideas are stated in the Bible, doesn't concern them.

The Israel of God is a spiritual concept, That title only applies to those people who believe in God and have accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
And there is no second chance, the time is NOW for Salvation.

keras said:

This fact is Bible ABC, the current Jewish State of Israel is just another ungodly nation.

But the contention arises from people who have another agenda to promote. That is; a future Jewish redemption, as a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the church during the 3 1/2 year period of the Great Tribulation. They must have the Jews on earth, as they say; to be punished and then forgiven as they finally accept Jesus.
That none of these ideas are stated in the Bible, doesn't concern them.

The Israel of God is a spiritual concept, That title only applies to those people who believe in God and have accepted the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
And there is no second chance, the time is NOW for Salvation.

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Good post! Totally agree!

David Kent said:

Who said Jesus was a Roman Prince?
Daniel 12:13-13 When you see "The time of the end" You have to ask yourself "The end of what?" The end here is the end of the Jewish economy. Regarding the 1290 days between the taking away of the sacrifice and the abomination of desolation, Josephus gives the dates of the abomination and the end of the sacrifice and it is exactly 1290 days. Another 45 days to the destruction of the temple, making 1335 days altogether.

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Matthew 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The time of the end is the end of the age. We are in that period now, by the parable of the fig tree.

The abomination of desolation will take place before this generation (referencing Israel and Jerusalem) passes away.

A characteristic of the time of the end is that travel and knowledge increase, which eliminates anything that Josephus witnessed.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

David, you just happen to be blessed enough to live at the end of the age. And the near redemption of your body. Jesus is coming and His reward is with Him.

sovereigngrace said:

Where? It is not mentioned anywhere else in Holy Writ, apart from the highly symbolic book of Revelation, and even then, only in the 3rd chapter before the end of the sacred text. I wish Premils quoted the full text of the Scripture that they mention to support their position. The text you mentioned make no mention of a future thousand years. No text seems safe with Premil eisegesis. Where is there any mention of an alleged future millennium in Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32?

Hosea 6:1-3 affirms: “Come, and let us (true Israel) return unto the LORD (Jesus): for he (Jesus) hath torn, and he (Jesus) will heal us (true Israel); he (Jesus) hath smitten, and he (Jesus) will bind us (true Israel) up. After two days will he (Jesus) revive us (true Israel): in the third day he (Jesus) will raise us (true Israel) up, and we (true Israel) shall live in his (Jesus) sight. Then shall we (true Israel) know, if we (true Israel) follow on to know the LORD (Jesus): his (Jesus) going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Jesus) shall come unto us (true Israel) as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”

This is talking about 2,000 years ago, and Christ's defeat of the grave, not some alleged future sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted earthly millennial kingdom.

Luke 13: 32 records: "And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected."

This is talking about 2,000 years ago, and Christ's defeat of the grave, not some alleged future sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted earthly millennial kingdom.

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Do you think that time to god in heaven is the same as for us on earth?
No; and the Bible does tell us what the difference is: One day to God, in heaven, is equal to 1000 years to mankind on earth. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8
The formula fits the Genesis creation story and it perfectly fits God's plan for mankind; 7000 years from Adam until the final Judgment.
Hosea 6:1-3 doesn't fit in Jesus First Advent, but since that time, there HAS passed nearly 2000 years and soon to come is the third 'day' - the final 1000 years when Jesus will rule.
Luke 13:32 is a prophecy. Jesus prophesied the Church age, then on the third 'day' He will be perfected - reach His goal - receive His reward. He will reign as King of the world, as Revelation 20:4 & 6 plainly state.
The next verse proves it, where Jesus tells about His immediate plans.

I find your denial; your vehement denial, of a Millennial reign of Jesus, to be at variance to the usual Church belief and a direct contradiction of scripture. Why not have a 1000 years of beneficent rule? The people who have proved themselves worthy followers of Jesus, will have deserved it.

keras said:

Do you think that time to god in heaven is the same as for us on earth?
No; and the Bible does tell us what the difference is: One day to God, in heaven, is equal to 1000 years to mankind on earth. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8
The formula fits the Genesis creation story and it perfectly fits God's plan for mankind; 7000 years from Adam until the final Judgment.
Hosea 6:1-3 doesn't fit in Jesus First Advent, but since that time, there HAS passed nearly 2000 years and soon to come is the third 'day' - the final 1000 years when Jesus will rule.

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So we are now in the millennium then? Can I remind you that it is 2019? We are currently in the 7th day - 6017 years from the beginning, according to your rational. Whatever way you look at it: Premil does not add up. It involves a lot of forcing 1000 years into repeated Scripture where it does not exist (or ever will). It involves ignoring multiple climactic Scriptures that show that coming of the Lord is "the end."

Re Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32, this is spiritualization gone crazy. This is infusing your theology into the text. This is dangerous. There is no such thing as "the Church age." That is a Premil invention. It doesn't exist. The Church (ekklessia) has always been around since the Garden. It refers to the congregation, assembly or gathering of God's people.

The figure "a thousand" is used repeatedly in Scripture to mean a long period of time or a large amount. It is not strange that this intra-Advent period is symbolism by such a symbolic figure because no man knows how long it is. Remember it is a book full of this lingo. You could also apply that same reasoning to the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes? Of course not! It means a short period of time. The genre of Rev and the symbolism of the book lends itself to this type of rhetoric and figurative language.

keras said:

I find your denial; your vehement denial, of a Millennial reign of Jesus, to be at variance to the usual Church belief and a direct contradiction of scripture. Why not have a 1000 years of beneficent rule? The people who have proved themselves worthy followers of Jesus, will have deserved it.

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Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

Moses declares in Deuteronomy 7:9, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 91 says, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7). Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Deuteronomy 32:30 asks a rhetorical question, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?" Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, in Joshua 23:10, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one." This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth. Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 50:10-11 says, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Job 9:2-3 declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah 60:21-22 instructs, in relation to the new earth, "Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Amos 5:1-4 says, "The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel." Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Douggg said:

Jesus was hailed as the King of Israel, King of the Jews. Jesus was not King of Rome. nor a Roman Prince.

The stopping of the daily sacrifice in Daniel 9:27 is found in two other places in Daniel.

Daniel 8:12-13, by the little horn person, said to take place at the time of the end. And in Daniel 12:11, to also take place at the time of the end, Daniel 12:9.

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Could we back up a bit - to the time where Herod's Temple was being constructed? Your response seems to be completely disconnected from the post of mine you were responding to. I'd posted this (quoted below), because I'm trying to make a point, but you seem to have stepped over my question. Do you not recognize this edict (by Persian kings) to be a fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem that was written about in Daniel 9:25)?:

keras said:

Luke 13:32 is a prophecy. Jesus prophesied the Church age, then on the third 'day' He will be perfected - reach His goal - receive His reward.

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This is talking about the first resurrection 2000 years ago.

He will reign as King of the world, as Revelation 20:4 & 6 plainly state. The next verse proves it, where Jesus tells about His immediate plans.

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What do you mean "He will"? He is reigning during this current Messianic age.

Ephesians 1:17-23: “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness (megethos or magnificence) of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.”

The resurrection is constantly presented in Scripture as the moment Christ secured all power and authority over all creation, including His enemies. It is at the place of majesty that He now reigns in unchallenged power and glory.

Scripture constantly depicts the magnificence, greatness and mighty power of Christ sitting at the right hand of Majesty ruling at the place of sovereign authority upon high. He holds all heaven's power. He is King of kings. He is Lord of lords. Hebrews 1:1-3 confirms: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty (megalosune) on high."

The word “Majesty” is interpreted from the Greek word megalosune, meaning greatness, i.e. (figuratively) divinity (often God himself). It speaks of glory, mighty power, magnificence and splendour. The phrase “being the brightness of his glory” literally reads “He is the radiance of his glory.”

Christ is no mere impotent King-in-waiting. He is not a want-to-be king. He is no ordinary powerless Prince. We see this in Matthew 28:18, where, after His resurrection, He victoriously declared, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”

This is Sovereign kingship! He holds this today upon His Father's throne. Him and the Father are one spiritually in authority. All heaven’s authority was deposited upon Christ through the triumph of Calvary where He triumphantly procured absolute victory over death, hell, sin, Satan and every enemy. Christ thus assumed the heavenly throne in perfect fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy and therefore reigns as Sovereign king until His last enemy is made His footstool.

Peter recognizes this in Acts 2:33, saying, “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”

Again, in Acts 5:30-31, he teaches: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

He has been “exalted” to the highest place and enjoys unchallenged authority now and for all eternity. Christ exercises divine kingship at the place of ultimate omnipotence as God and as Messiah. As God, Christ holds all power and authority in heaven and on earth, reigning over all creation. But as man He reigns over all His new creation (true spiritual Israel). His deity was simply veiled in a human body during His earthly ministry.

Hebrews 8:1 also says: "We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty (megalosune) in the heavens."

This phrase is synonymous with sitting at "the right hand of the power of God" (Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62 and Luke 22:69). The “right hand” is therefore the special place of honour and power. Christ now enjoys full participation in God's glory in His lofty seat. Of course, repeated Scripture shows us that this means He carries all power. In fact, there is nothing that is not under His authority. The majesty that He possesses is real and ongoing. In a biblical sense, being at “the right hand of the Majesty” or “the right hand of the power of God” means to be the one upon whom majesty, power and authority rests and through whom it operates.

2 Peter 1:16 testifies: "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power). For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.”

He carried this Majesty and glory on earth as heaven’s King, albeit in a veiled sense, hidden behind human flesh. That veil was briefly lifted on the Mount of transfiguration but is now manifest in all its eternal unparalleled glory in heaven. It will be seen when He appears in power and glory at the second coming to destroy all sin, rebellion and the wicked.

Jude 25 tells us: "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty (megaleiotes – meaning magnificence, mighty power), dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

Exceptionally, since I feared I didn't bring my point across, I'm revisiting this thread for the third time today.

Thank you very much that you didn't want to be rude (this is what I expected from a pastor...).

But to be clear... I don't explain away neither unambiguous scripture nor other scritpure.

sovereigngrace said:

The nation is no longer chosen. It rejects Christ and therefore rejects God.

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it does reject Christ. However it is chosen despite their rejection, see Romans 11:28.
The remnant can't be meant by this verse.... since the remnant is pro gospel. Romans 11:28 speaks of enemies of the Gospel being elected, as I told you. Ironically, you even cite it.

sovereigngrace said:

Romans 11:5-7

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... is absolutely right. I agree, Israel is blinded according to this text.
In my opinion, yet chosen. Can God choose blinded people? Yes he can.
The passage also talks about the election of grace. There are other types of election though. It's Romans 11:28 that introduces another type of election: being elected for the sake of the forefathers. This has nothing to do with grace.

sovereigngrace said:

“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for.”

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yeah, but this has nothing to do with election though. They sought for other things. Election was a given.
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Groups can be saved for ethnicity (see Romans 11:28)... but this has nothing to do with favor. If a group is severely wronged by Christians, then this groups should receive something in return. This has something to with group-related justice.
God is just.

Again, I disagree with you that all non-saved Israelites are of their "father" the devil, as you say. Some of them were though.

thomas_t said:

Exceptionally, since I feared I didn't bring my point across, I'm revisiting this thread for the third time today.

Thank you very much that you didn't want to be rude (this is what I expected from a pastor...).

But to be clear... I don't explain away neither unambiguous scripture nor other scritpure.

it does reject Christ. However it is chosen despite their rejection, see Romans 11:28.
The remnant can't be meant by this verse.... since the remnant is pro gospel. Romans 11:28 speaks of enemies of the Gospel being elected, as I told you. Ironically, you even cite it.


... is absolutely right. I agree, Israel is blinded according to this text.
In my opinion, yet chosen. Can God choose blinded people? Yes he can.
The passage also talks about the election of grace. There are other types of election though. It's Romans 11:28 that introduces another type of election: being elected for the sake of the forefathers. This has nothing to do with grace.

yeah, but this has nothing to do with election though. They sought for other things. Election was a given.
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Groups can be saved for ethnicity (see Romans 11:28)... but this has nothing to do with favor. If a group is severely wronged by Christians, then this groups should receive something in return. This has something to with group-related justice.
God is just.

Again, I disagree with you that all non-saved Israelites are of their "father" the devil, as you say. Some of them were though.

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You are living in denial to reject the fact that there are two types of Israeli in view in Paul's teaching (between Romans 9-11) that belong to national Israel. This is not a fight with my theology. It is a fight with the wording of Scripture. You are so besotted with Israel you fail to see that they are not all blind. They are not all enemies. There is a chosen remnant - faithful Israel that remain true to God and His Word. These own Christ as their Savior and Lord. They are "a remnant according to the election of grace." They are also called "the election" or the chosen. The rest are enemies. They are of the devil.

The problem I see with dispensationalists is that they artificially make a special protected class of sinner – Israeli sinners – to support their extra-biblical teaching. They somehow make them elect sinner. They present them as a specially blessed sinner. They are somehow chosen of God because of an accident of birth, and God because of their ethnic race, when this has never been the case, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. Salvation has always been by grace, not race.

The reality is there are only two camps of human beings – saved and lost, those who belong to God and those who belong to the devil. There is no third group. Premillennialism invents a third group who are too righteous to be destroyed when Jesus comes and to wicked to be caught up and glorified. This group is totally unknown to Scripture. They create this to justify their ‘Segregation Theology’.

John the Baptist warned the Jews that anyone that refuses to receive Jesus “the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36). Jesus Himself splits mankind into two distinct camps (not three) in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:38-39: “The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.”

If one was to take an un-indoctrinated theological journey through the whole of Scripture from start to finish one would surely come to the definite conclusion that mankind is ultimately only divided into two types of people – those that personally know God and are consequently destined to everlasting bliss, and those that that are enemies of God and are therefore destined to everlasting punishment.

The wheat and tares are a symbolic collective inclusive representation of all mankind; the wheat representing “the children of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:38) – those saved by God’s wonderful grace; the tares representing “the children of the wicked one” (Matthew 13:38) – those outside of grace and of God. The righteous in this story are notably planted of God; the tares on the other hand are planted of the “enemy” – the devil. In fact, Matthew 13:39 states, “The enemy that sowed them is the devil.” This again corroborates the view that we are viewing the only two sole peoples that Scripture recognises. Plainly, if one isn’t of the Lord then there are of the devil. There are no hybrids.

Those who not born again and only have one nature and are described by Jesus in John 8:44 as being of their “father the devil.” Why? Because He told them the truth (by way of the Gospel) and they refused to believe Him (John 8:45-46). Because of their rejection of Him and His truth, He told them “ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

There are not two God’s, two Saviors and two ways of salvation. There is one way, and that comes through Christ and His finished work at Calvary.

Paul reinforces this truth in 2 Corinthians 4:4, demonstrating that all those who reject our Lord and “the light of the glorious gospel of Christ” are “blinded” by “the god of this world” (Satan). They are deceived.

John deems anyone who denies “Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)” as a liar” and an “antichrist.” This includes every single Jew and Gentile who rebls against God’s only provision for sin. There are no special exceptions or imaginary 3rd group of humans, as Dispies pretend. In 1 John 3:10 he shows that mankind is divided into two camps. One is called “the children of God” and the other is called “the children of the devil.”

Finally, Jesus admonished the church in Smyrna in Revelation 2:9, “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

Those who reject Christ are indeed of their father the devil.

He repeats the same to the church at Philadelphia in Revelation 3:9, “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

Those who reject Christ are indeed of their father the devil. You dismiss these crystal clear censures from Jesus, arguing: "it's one specific synagogue he addressing, I think." Well, He actually condemns 2 churches here that had large Jewish communities living around them that were apostate. Judaism is apostate. It has rejected their Messiah and is therefore condemned and unregenerate.

I will repeat what I previously said (because you lightly and wrongly dismiss it): "In Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 Christ succinctly describes the Jews that rejects Him and what He achieved at the cross as those who “say they are Jews, and are not.” What he is saying is: they are not real Jews. The Philadelphia Church, which would have been overwhelmingly Gentile, was here promised that God would cause the unbelieving Jews to come and worship at their feet. The Lord again exposed the delusion that did beguile (and does beguile) the natural Christ-rejecting Jews “which say they are Jews” but “are not, but do lie.” The true Jew today is a believer in Yahweh that is spiritually circumcised in heart, not merely physically circumcised."

thomas_t said:

As I told you: In Christ race doesn't count. Outside it does, in my opinion. I think it does count before God - humans should not make racial distinctions in their behavior, in contrast. See also my reply to your next quote about "racial preference". See also Romans 11:26. So, scripture does not forbid my theological opinion. Bible encourages it.

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If they do not embrace Christ they do not belong to God. They cannot be God’s chosen people if they reject Christ. Jesus said in Luke 9:48, “whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.” Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.” 2 John 1:9: “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God."

There can be no dispute here, without negating the Word of God.

mkgal1 said:

Could we back up a bit - to the time where Herod's Temple was being constructed? Your response seems to be completely disconnected from the post of mine you were responding to. I'd posted this (quoted below), because I'm trying to make a point, but you seem to have stepped over my question. Do you not recognize this edict (by Persian kings) to be a fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem that was written about in Daniel 9:25)?:

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Of course Daniel 9:25 refers to the building of The city and Temple, but Artaxerxes had nothing to do with it.

sovereigngrace said:

So we are now in the millennium then? Can I remind you that it is 2019? We are currently in the 7th day - 6017

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That depends on whether you believe the accepted Chronology. I believe that the Hebrew date is nearer, Thursday, 19 December 2019 = 21st of Kislev, 5780

David Kent said:

That depends on whether you believe the accepted Chronology. I believe that the Hebrew date is nearer, Thursday, 19 December 2019 = 21st of Kislev, 5780

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Both are wrong.
The number of years passed since Adam is 5989. Proved by 47 Bible verses, tied to the known date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah.

SG; we are NOT in the Millennium now. Much must happen before Jesus will Return and commence His 1000 year reign.

keras said:

The number of years passed since Adam is 5989. Proved by 47 Bible verses, tied to the known date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah.

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Oh and what date was that?

David Kent said:

Of course Daniel 9:25 refers to the building of The city and Temple, but Artaxerxes had nothing to do with it.

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Ezra 6:14 - So the Jewish elders continued their work, and they were greatly encouraged by the preaching of the prophets Haggai and Zechariah son of Iddo. The Temple was finally finished, as had been commanded by the God of Israel and decreed by Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes, the kings of Persia.

Douggg said:

Matthew 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The time of the end is the end of the age. We are in that period now, by the parable of the fig tree.

The abomination of desolation will take place before this generation (referencing Israel and Jerusalem) passes away.

A characteristic of the time of the end is that travel and knowledge increase, which eliminates anything that Josephus witnessed.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

David, you just happen to be blessed enough to live at the end of the age. And the near redemption of your body. Jesus is coming and His reward is with Him.

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Wrong. The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies standing in the Holy place, Jersualem

• Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

The abomination of the pagan Roman armies desolated Jerusalem

There were two questions asked by Matthew. The second was nothing to do witgh the previous discussion. Luke is more to the point:
Luke 21:7 when shall these things be and what shll be the sign shall tghere be when these things will come to pass?

Douggg said:

Matthew 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The time of the end is the end of the age. We are in that period now, by the parable of the fig tree.

The abomination of desolation will take place before this generation (referencing Israel and Jerusalem) passes away.

A characteristic of the time of the end is that travel and knowledge increase, which eliminates anything that Josephus witnessed.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

David, you just happen to be blessed enough to live at the end of the age. And the near redemption of your body. Jesus is coming and His reward is with Him.

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Wrong. The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies standing in the Holy place, Jersualem

• Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

The abomination of the pagan Roman armies desolated Jerusalem

There were two questions asked by Matthew. The second was nothing to do witgh the previous discussion. Luke is more to the point:

• Luke 21:7

The sign was, when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies. That happened in the gegeration Jesus was speaking to.

mkgal1 said:

Ezra 6:14 - So the Jewish elders continued their work, and they were greatly encouraged by the preaching of the prophets Haggai and Zechariah son of Iddo. The Temple was finally finished, as had been commanded by the God of Israel and decreed by Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes, the kings of Persia.

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But Ezra 6 is in the reign of Darius. Artaxerxes 1 was about 60 or so years later, if he actually reigned. Herodotus who lived about that time only said he was put in charge while Xerxes invaded Greece. Xenophon who was just a little later than Herodotus doesn't mention Artaxerxes as being king.
There is a previous Artaxerxes mentioned in the scripture so he could not be the first. Older writers say there are only two kings mentioned here and that after Darius conquered the Isles, he assumed the title of Artaxerxes. In that case there would be no gap between Ezra 6 and 7. (The same king who married Esther)

mkgal1 said:

Could we back up a bit - to the time where Herod's Temple was being constructed? Your response seems to be completely disconnected from the post of mine you were responding to. I'd posted this (quoted below), because I'm trying to make a point, but you seem to have stepped over my question. Do you not recognize this edict (by Persian kings) to be a fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem that was written about in Daniel 9:25)?:

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Yes, so what's your point?