two covenants

Mercy74

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You & I both know that the Abrahamic covenant is the promise of the spirit through faith. What difference is it if I say Abraham’s promise or Abraham’s covenant and if I say that covenant concerns faith?

Galatians 3:6-9 (NASB) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Romans 4:3-14 (NASB) 3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;
It matters because you are suppose to handle the Word of G-d with fear and trembling; not adding or subtracting even a little jot or tittle to them. You change words that are not interchangeable not understanding you completely change the context and spiritual meaning of the text
 
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Mercy74

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Covenant of faith? Yes I think this is not far off...
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
What law????
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
"Covenant of faith" not written in Scripture. Do you agree? Yeshua says "As it is written" or "As it is also written?"
 
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Mercy74

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Ephesians 2:12 (NASB) remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Hebrews 8:6 (NASB) But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 9:15 (NASB) For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Romans 4:13 (NASB)
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16 (NASB)
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Galatians 3:14 (NASB)
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:22 (NASB)
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

The law of faith is to say “the rules that govern the promise of the spirit by faith.” It isn’t a law that is part of Moses law, but rather a promise God made to Abraham in Abraham’s covenant.
The promise will be guaranteed to all of the descendants of Abraham not only those of the Law (Romans 4:16); Moses is a son of Abraham.
 
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Mercy74

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Hello, Yes you're right......covenant with Abraham is the covenant that requires Faith...so Faith is the Law that justify Abraham in Genesis 26 so also is the Law that we as Christians should follow...
The covenant with Abraham is sometimes called "the everlasting covenant", "covenant of love" or "covenant of the promise "...the requirement for that Covenant is "Faith " as you mentioned in Romans. ..and the command for that same covenant is Love...or in one sentence is "Faith" express through "Love"...Galatians 5:6
You mean the "covenant of circumcision on the 8th day" established by YHWH with Abraham passed down to Moses; he built and worshipped at the altar.
 
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Mercy74

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Yes, the law is not based on Faith (Faith is referring to Jesus Christ ) Galatians 3:22-25...But the law is based on anyone who does what is says....you already sum up the the two covenants in one sentence...one is based on man's efforts or righteousness through works, the other is Christ works or Righteousness through Faith....
Faith that is based in Torah will CREDIT righteousness to the believer.
 
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Mercy74

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Hello, Yes you're right......covenant with Abraham is the covenant that requires Faith...so Faith is the Law that justify Abraham in Genesis 26 so also is the Law that we as Christians should follow...
The covenant with Abraham is sometimes called "the everlasting covenant", "covenant of love" or "covenant of the promise "...the requirement for that Covenant is "Faith " as you mentioned in Romans. ..and the command for that same covenant is Love...or in one sentence is "Faith" express through "Love"...Galatians 5:6
The law requires love; faith is expressed through Torah. We read the story of Abraham in genesis; the first book of Torah.
 
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pasifika

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You mean the "covenant of circumcision on the 8th day" established by YHWH with Abraham passed down to Moses; he built and worshipped at the altar.
Hello, the covenants of circumcision in the flesh is for all Israelites now the truly circumcision is done by the Spirit and is the circumcision of the hearts for those children of the promise both Israelites and gentiles...
 
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pasifika

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Faith that is based in Torah will CREDIT righteousness to the believer.
Hello, let me put it this way..The Law and Prophets which are the old testament are witnesses to Israel of the "Righteousness of God" But both Law and Prophets cannot impart Righteousness to the people unless the power of Sin over the people is broken and a new power is established....you can see that in the two covenants (old&new)...So Only "Faith" which enables that "Righteousness" to be credited to the people of God...Not the Law (Sinai)
 
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pasifika

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The law requires love; faith is expressed through Torah. We read the story of Abraham in genesis; the first book of Torah.
The law requires "works" as it says "the person who Does or Do these things (things written in the law) shall live by them...
But

Faith is ...."If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved...Romans 10

Abraham lived by Faith..as it says " Abraham believed God, and was credited to him as righteousness....

"Believed" is the end-result of our Faith which is comes through our knowledge of Christ...
 
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Mercy74

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Hello, the covenants of circumcision in the flesh is for all Israelites now the truly circumcision is done by the Spirit and is the circumcision of the hearts for those children of the promise both Israelites and gentiles...
The covenant established with Abraham was a freshly circumcision on the 8th day. Do you agree?
 
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Mercy74

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The law requires "works" as it says "the person who Does or Do these things (things written in the law) shall live by them...
But

Faith is ...."If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved...Romans 10

Abraham lived by Faith..as it says " Abraham believed God, and was credited to him as righteousness....

"Believed" is the end-result of our Faith which is comes through our knowledge of Christ...
Abraham walked by faith.
 
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ralliann

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Hello, the covenants of circumcision in the flesh is for all Israelites now the truly circumcision is done by the Spirit and is the circumcision of the hearts for those children of the promise both Israelites and gentiles...
Yes, being born again....As the Lord said to Nicodemus.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ex 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

De 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 
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JLB777

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How were the law of commandments CONTAINED in ordinances?

The Lord added the ordinances to the covenant, which included the sacrifices that foreshadowed Christ.

He fulfilled them.


They have been removed from the Covenant, to make way for it’s refreshing, being called the New Covenant.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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What does the word "contrary" mean in Galatians 3:12? Please do not ignore my question.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12


Again, I ask, where does the word “contrary” appear in Galatians 3:12.


Please do not ignore my question.



JLB
 
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Mercy74

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The law requires "works" as it says "the person who Does or Do these things (things written in the law) shall live by them...
But

Faith is ...."If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved...Romans 10

Abraham lived by Faith..as it says " Abraham believed God, and was credited to him as righteousness....

"Believed" is the end-result of our Faith which is comes through our knowledge of Christ...
If you were children of Abraham you would do the WORKS of Abraham (John 8:39). What work did Abraham do? Abraham circumcised every male in his house.
 
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Gup20

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"Covenant of faith" not written in Scripture. Do you agree? Yeshua says "As it is written" or "As it is also written?"
It is a description of the covenant, not a title.

Galatians 3:14-18 (NASB) 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.​

So the question to you my friend is which covenant is Paul talking about in verses 15 & 17 in terms of faith? It is clear from 14, 16, and 18 it is talking about a covenant made with Abraham. At the beginning of Gal 3, Paul quotes Gen 15:6. However, Galatians 3:16 has heavy references to Genesis 15:5, and Genesis 17:7-8 when God establishes the everlasting covenant with Abraham.

In Romans 4, talking about the faith that leads to righteousness, Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 twice but he also quotes Genesis 17:5 where God is in the middle of establishing a covenant with Abraham & calls him the father of many nations.

Romans 4:13 (NASB) For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

Romans 4:16-17 (NASB) 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.
The Promise that Abraham & his descendants would be heir of the world is the covenant God makes with Abraham in Genesis 17:


Genesis 17:2 (NASB) "I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."
5 (NASB) "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."​

So Paul quotes both Gen 15 & 17 as a faith-based covenant God makes with Abraham. This this why I say the Abrahamic covenant is the covenant of faith.
 
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Mercy74

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The Lord added the ordinances to the covenant, which included the sacrifices that foreshadowed Christ.

He fulfilled them.


They have been removed from the Covenant, to make way for it’s refreshing, being called the New Covenant.




JLB
Ordinances do not come from G-d.
 
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Gup20

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The promise will be guaranteed to all of the descendants of Abraham not only those of the Law (Romans 4:16); Moses is a son of Abraham.
No one has ever disputed that Moses was a son of Abraham. What is under dispute is that those with the same faith in the gospel as Abraham are also considered heirs according to promise.
 
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