Question for rapture people

ewq1938 said:

There is only one time Christ returns and the righteous are gathered to him.

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When specifically are they gathered to Him, as He is returning or after He has set foot on the Mt. of Olives?

ewq1938 said:

There isn't another righteous group or 3rd coming.

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Sure, there is only one second coming and no third coming. The Lord does not set foot on the earth, a literal second coming, when the redeemed are caught up to Him, as per Paul. That seems to be what confuses some... they equate the gathering with a second coming. It never says that. it says that we will be caught up and gathered to Him in the air. He doesn't touch down in that event. The literal "second coming" occurs later.

ewq1938 said:

The raptured saints meet Christ in the clouds before he places a foot on the ground.

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Thanks for going that route. Now we have a basis for a conundrum....

In Matthew 25 / Joel 3, the nations are gathered at the Valley of Jehoshophat, which the Mt. of Olives overlooks, and there they are separated out as sheep and goats. The sheep are considered righteous. It is the Lord who is doing the separating.

But if the righteous were gathered to meet the Lord in the air just before He set foot on the ground, what righteous are still on the earth to be separated out? Were they not paying attention and missed the boat when the righteous were gathered in the air unto Yeshua as He was returning? Maybe they were out playing golf and didn't get the word to meet the Lord in the air. Bad cell phone service I guess.

Copperhead said:

The major problem with that is in what Yeshua said in the passage.....

John 14:3 (NKJV) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

There is nothing in the collective passage that implies what He is building, He brings it to earth. The simple grammatical structure implies that He will come and gather us to go to that place. Not bring it to us.

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You avoided Revelation 21:1-3, the only scripture that informs us of when and where we will see the New Jerusalem. Can you find any other?
If not, then your belief of going to it in heaven, is wrong.

All of the Lord's faithful people, dead and alive WILL be gathered to it, AFTER the Millennium.

keras said:

You avoided Revelation 21:1-3, the only scripture that informs us of when and where we will see the New Jerusalem. Can you find any other?
If not, then your belief of going to it in heaven, is wrong.

All of the Lord's faithful people, dead and alive WILL be gathered to it, AFTER the Millennium.

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Ok, then who is ruling with a rod of iron during the Millennial kingdom?

ewq1938 said:

Neither passage is speaking of the second coming. The sheep and goats passage is taking place at the timeframe of the GWTJ,

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Matthew 25:31-32 (NKJV) When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Joel 3:1-2 (NKJV) For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations,
And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.

The GWTJ is at the end of the 1000 years. Best I can tell from these passages, the nations are separated out when He returns.... before the 1000 years start.

So the conundrum remains..... if the righteous are gathered in the air to meet Yeshua as He is returning to physically set foot on the Mt of Olives, then that leaves no righteous left of the nations to separate out.

ewq1938 said:

Neither passage is speaking of the second coming. The sheep and goats passage is taking place at the timeframe of the GWTJ, the only time people are judged and cast into everlasting fire:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

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Correct, ewq.
Proved by Matthew 25:46... and they, [the ungodly wicked] will be sent to their everlasting punishment, but the righteous will be given Eternal life.
These Judgments are only made at the Great White Throne, AFTER the Millennium.

"yeshuasavedme, post: 74554510 Isa 51:16
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
...

Adam was raptured/removed/laqach from the earth below and set in Paradise, in the third heaven. Genesis 2:15

Paradise is in the third heaven. 2Co 12:2, 2Co 12:4.
The Tree of Life is in the third heaven, in Paradise. Revelation Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Adam was cast out of Paradise, to earth below, and cherubim with flaming swords guarded the entry, lest the Adam creation enter, eat of the tree of life, and live forever in the defiled corrupted, unclean garment of human being flesh which he wore after he sold his kingdom into sin, corruption, and death,
and so, could never be born again
and be made a son of God by adoption of spirit and flesh,
by the cleansing of the soul,
by the Atonement.

That is why the Kinsman/Redeemer was promised to come, and to undo the curse, by His death, and to restore all things, in Genesis 3:15.

Enoch is in heaven, in a changed garment of flesh, and rules with the holy watcher angels there. He said so in his writings.
Then, we see Enoch -a real human being- come as a messenger to Daniel (I fully believe he is Enoch) in Daniel chapter 10:21, showing Daniel all the things which are "written in the Scripture of truth in heaven", about his people for the last days -the literal Hebrew says so.

Then, we see Enoch in Revelation as one of the angels/messengers (angel means "messenger")coming out of the temple in heaven with one of the bowls of wrath to judge earth with, in the tribulation.
He is a human being, wearing the garments of the redeemed and glorified human being.
Enoch read all the Scripture written in heaven, about all things to come, and he shows John the things to come.
John wants to bow and worship him two different times, but he tells John not to do that....and tells John that he is a fellow prophet, and a human being brother.
Rev 22:9
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Then we see the human being elders on thrones in heaven,ruling there, who worship the Lamb who redeemed them and gave them eternal life -the crowns of gold..

Mount Eden is the holy Mount of God in the third heaven. Ezekiel 28 states it is so.
We also call it Mount Zion of the heavenly realm; God's Holy Hill.

keras said:

You avoided Revelation 21:1-3, the only scripture that informs us of when and where we will see the New Jerusalem. Can you find any other?
If not, then your belief of going to it in heaven, is wrong.

All of the Lord's faithful people, dead and alive WILL be gathered to it, AFTER the Millennium.

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You still avoid Rev 21. Anyway John 14:1-6 simply does not support a 'rapture' removal from the earth at all. Jesus was teaching that He was the Way the Truth and the Life. The Way to the new Jerusalem, is thru Jesus, belief in Him and keep His Commandments.

I find it hard to credit, that intelligent people are discussing scenarios of impossible things, as though they will actually take place.
Ideas like an instantaneous change into glorified bodies, before any trials and testing, let alone Judgment. A rapture to heaven of the Church is a theory, never mentioned specifically in the Bible, that has consumed tons of paper and ink, still totally without any sure consensus of when it could happen.
All these issues have been argued, even fought over; for a hundred plus years. Doesn't this make people question the validity of those beliefs?

But what is most concerning, is the fact that the Prophetic Word does plainly tell us what God actually has planned for His people and the world in these last few years of the Church age.
That people are unable to comprehend those prophesies, is told us by Jesus in Matthew 11:25 and 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, where those learned, so called wise theologians and Bible experts, cannot understand these truths. Also in Isaiah 29:9-12, we are told that people who choose to believe false theories will be blinded to the truth and 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 says that God will place those with closed minds under a compelling delusion, which makes them believe what is false.
So that all who have not believed the truth, but made falsehood their choice, may be brought to Judgment.

Fellow Christians, my aim and desire is for all of you and as many as I can reach, to be presented with the scriptural Truth; the undeniable facts of prophecy and a common sense, logical, feasible sequence of what will happen in the near future to all of us.

It is a message of hope and God's Promise of protection during a short time of difficulty, and then how He will mightily Bless His faithful people, as they all live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.

The children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26


All the prophesied events and the full story of the future are set out in 800+ short articles, free to read at: logostelos.info

ewq1938 said:

There is only one time Christ returns and the righteous are gathered to him. There isn't another righteous group or 3rd coming.

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Why do you refuse to see the Scripture that says without a doubt, and very plainly, that Paradise is in the third heaven, and Paradise is planted eastward in Eden, and Mount Eden is the Holy Mount of God in heaven -the third heaven,
Paul was taken there, to the third heaven, to Paradise. He said so.
Jesus says that the Tree of Life is in the midst of paradise, which is still in the third heaven, and Eden, there, is the holy mount of God.

Jesus comes in the air to receive His congregation.
In Psalm 50, Jesus calls for His saints to be gathered together unto Him from the ends of heaven, and from the ends of the earth.
50 The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

At that time of the gathering together unto Him, they all get their garments of flesh made for beauty and for glory so as to enter into heaven, together, in bodies made perfect.

Leviticus 8 tells us, as living oracles, that the garments must be put on to enter into heaven, into the holy place, into His temple, and Leviticus 8 tells us that those who enter into those holy chambers are shut in for a seven day consecration there, in their garments made for beauty and for glory.

Isaiah 26: 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Those shut in saints have nothing to do with the wrath of God poured out on earth, they are shut in, in heaven, in garments of New Man flesh, and glorified, and made perfect, and celebrating their consecration to serve as kings and priests over earth, from heaven.

They all meet together in the air. The saints come from the ends of heaven to the air to receive their resurrected, regenerated, elementally changed bodies raised from the earth. The saints called to be gathered to him from the ends of the earth rise to meet together with the saints from heaven and with the LORD, and He says to all of them: 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

ewq1938 said:

Rev 2 and 19 shows that Christ and his saints rule with the rod of iron.

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You forgot Daniel 7.
The saints of the most high come to the courts of heaven, to Him who sits on the throne, and receive the kingdom from Him, for they will reign with Him over earth, and those of them faithful to serve will serve from the heavens in the place of the "cast down" evil angels -"satans", over whom is the prince of darkness. -They get cast down to earth for the time of the tribulation, and they are principalities and powers, rulers of wickedness in the heavenly places who will no longer rule after the Congregation of the LORD is raptured, made perfect, and receives the kingdom, from heaven.

Daniel 7:
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed....


15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever....


27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

yeshuasavedme said:

...
Jesus comes in the air to receive His congregation.
In Psalm 50, Jesus calls for His saints to be gathered together unto Him from the ends of heaven, and from the ends of the earth.
50 The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

At that time of the gathering together unto Him, they all get their garments of flesh made for beauty and for glory so as to enter into heaven, together, in bodies made perfect.

Leviticus 8 tells us, as living oracles, that the garments must be put on to enter into heaven, into the holy place, into His temple, and Leviticus 8 tells us that those who enter into those holy chambers are shut in for a seven day consecration there, in their garments made for beauty and for glory.

Isaiah 26: 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Those shut in saints have nothing to do with the wrath of God poured out on earth, they are shut in, in heaven, in garments of New Man flesh, and glorified, and made perfect, and celebrating their consecration to serve as kings and priests over earth, from heaven.

They all meet together in the air. The saints come from the ends of heaven to the air to receive their resurrected, regenerated, elementally changed bodies raised from the earth. The saints called to be gathered to him from the ends of the earth rise to meet together with the saints from heaven and with the LORD, and He says to all of them: 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

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Psalm 75:
1 Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, unto thee do we give thanks: for that thy name is near thy wondrous works declare.
2 When I shall receive/laqach/rapture the congregation I will judge/vindicate uprightly.

3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it.
Bearing up the pillars is actually "resetting the pillars that hold the earth, in the Hebrew.
The wicked rulers of darkness (evil angels, principalities and powers) in the heavens hold the earth, legally so, since Adam sold it into sin and corruption and the kingdom of darkness took power.
But when Jesus takes His power unto Himself and reigns over His "ransomed by His blood" earth, then those evil angels get cast down to earth, and Jesus sets His own saints in their places, over earth, to rule from the heavens.
-and after the wrath of God is poured out on earth and the evil kingdoms judged on earth, Jesus has His angels collect all those evil angels and bind them to Sheol below, for the thousand year Sabbath Millennium, after which those are released from hell below earth to try, tempt and test those children of the blessed elect Gentiles and seed of Jacob who were born in the millennium, from those "elect" seed of Jacob and "righteous sheep Gentiles who were judged worthy to enter into the kingdom of God on earth and marry and bear children for the thousand year Sabbath...
After the testing time is over, it all is burned up in the instant fires of atomic regeneration -and the New Beginning, the 8th millennial Day begins....
It's all in the Word, for the finding for those who seek.

ewq1938 said:

Adam was created on Earth in Eden, then God planted a garden in Eden and placed Adam there. Adam wasn't taken from the Earth and Eden and it's garden was never a place in heaven.

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Genesis 2:8 transliterated Hebrew, from Strong's concordance;
"Yĕhovah 'elohiym nata` gan qedem `Eden sham suwm adam asher yatsar "

translates to:
YHWH ELOHYM planted [a] garden [on] east side [of] Eden, there [He] brought/placed Adam, which He formed.
That is a legitimate rendering of the verse. Adam was "raptured" taken from one place to another., specifically, from the earth he was formed from the dust of, to the garden on the east side of Mount Eden, in the third heaven.

How do we know the Garden/Paradise was east side of Mount Eden in the third heaven? We know because Ezekiel 28, 2 Co 12:2, 2 Co 12:4, and Revelation 2:7 all lay it out, as to location and name.

Adam was raptured/removed/laqach from the earth below and set in Paradise, in the third heaven. Genesis 2:15

Paradise is in the third heaven.
The Tree of Life is in the third heaven, in Paradise. Revelation Rev 2:7
Adam was laqach/taken away/removed from the earth below to the Garden of God, eastward =east side of Eden, the Holy Mount of God, in the third heaven, in which the Tree of Life is in the midst of.


Adam was raptured/removed/laqach from the earth below and set in Paradise, in the third heaven. Genesis 2:15

Paradise is in the third heaven. 2Co 12:2, 2Co 12:4.
The Tree of Life is in the third heaven, in Paradise. Revelation Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Adam was cast out of Paradise, to earth below, and cherubim with flaming swords guarded the entry, lest the Adam creation enter, eat of the tree of life, and live forever in the defiled corrupted, unclean garment of human being flesh