How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

Jesus is YHWH

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Who but a believer would any of this apply to? The rest would think it foolishness.
Agreed !

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Cor 2:13

hope this helps !!!
 
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jerry kelso

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How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

Free Will is an effect of salvation. Before salvation the will is enslaved to sin. So those claiming free will are in fact claiming a level of salvation exists in all apart from atonement. And that they must complete their own salvation through obedience. This is basically the position Pelagius held.

Pelagianism. The name is derived from its chief proponent, Pelagius (ca. 354/60–ca. 418/20), who, in opposition to Augustine, argued that human nature is not utterly depraved after the Fall, but rather is in a state of moral neutrality. It is only through habit that one becomes sinful, and one may exercise human will to surmount sin. Pelagius further taught that one may take the first step toward salvation apart from divine grace. Pelagianism was condemned as heresy in the fourth century, and Augustine’s doctrines of the Fall and original sin were embraced as the »orthodox teaching.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 432). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

In view of this, many skirt the charges of heresy by claiming Grace offers heaven to all who choose to believe. But in reality, there is no offer. Jesus preaches (announces) whoever believes already has eternal life.

But here’s some good news. People who choose to believe already believe (have eternal life) or they would not choose to believe. They would look away enjoying their sins.

davel,

1. Relationship is a two way street.
Jesus always expected people to put a step of faith forward.
We are to trust and obey him which takes a person choosing of their own free will choice.
God will not make one do what they don’t want to no matter how saved you are.

2. Disobedience by a Christian is an act of freewill choice.
Obedience is a freewill choice Choose you this day whom you will obey Joshua 24:15 who were of the chosen people.
Ezekiel 18 says that God would forget the Jews righteousness if they didn’t repent.
James 5:19-20 was talking to Christians when he said if one convert the backslider would save their soul and hide their multitude of sins etc.

3. Naaman was told to dip in the Jordan seven time and he didn’t want to do it. He finally did but God wanted him to choose freely and wisely so it would be out of love and respect to God.
Hebrews 12:1 says to lay aside the sin that easily besets us.

4. I’ve got to go, but it is no difference in the act of salvation. God does not coerce people. He will take their faith and obedience and he knows their mind and heart and Calvary was his work of redemption alone and he alone can put his stamp of approval as one being truly and officially saved. Jerry Kelso
 
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Christ is Lord

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This doesn’t make sense to me at all. Maybe I’m not seeing something. God saved the Israelites first and basically said to them, “I have saved you and now I’m calling you to come into relationship with me and he gives them the law.” No Israelite (if they were reading Torah correctly) thought that obeying the law saved them because they were saved before he even gave them the law. So therefore, you can conclude that they were elected, corrected. Then if they were elected and therefore there is no “free will” how then did they disobey?
 
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lsume

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Geppetto was a puppet master up until the strings were cut. Then he became a father. Pinocchio remained a puppet until the strings were cut. Then he became a son and moved himself. The most benevolent puppet master in the world is and always will be a puppet master regardless of any good intentions. If we cannot choose, we remain puppets regardless of how well we are treated. Not even God can avoid that.
Yes He can. Until you Love The Lord Your God it is impossible to understand. It is impossible for anyone to love God The Father without experiencing His Love first.
 
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BNR32FAN

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There are no moral atheists?

I think what he means is only those who have been justified by Christ can do good works that are pleasing in God’s sight. Without justification our works are tainted by our sin in God’s sight.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes He can. Until you Love The Lord Your God it is impossible to understand. It is impossible for anyone to love God The Father without experiencing His Love first.

Well He already gave His only begotten Son so I think everyone has already experienced His love.
 
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-57

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Not enough for you?

"This is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23).

John 6:64......reads as follows....ESV..... 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)

There were some people there who did not believe. The very next verse tells us why....

65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

.....why would God not grant the ability for some people to believe?
 
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-57

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Again, there is a resurrection for the damned or the wicked.

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).
What is meant by...done good? I ask because it doesn't seem as if you read NOR posted the entire thought on the subject.

Why do people cherry pick?
 
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-57

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Someone answer me this - is the Holy Spirit limited by a preacher's theology if it is wrong in some respect, if he still is preaching the gospel (rather than theology)?
What if the preacher is preaching Jesus isn't God....is the Holy Spirit limited by the preacher's theology?
 
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1213

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Where's free will in any of this? Aren't these good works the fruit of the Spirit?

Fruits of the spirit can be done freely, without anyone forcing to do so. Person can freely want to do the fruits of spirit and then there is no free will problem.
 
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Acts2:38

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How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

Free Will is an effect of salvation. Before salvation the will is enslaved to sin. So those claiming free will are in fact claiming a level of salvation exists in all apart from atonement. And that they must complete their own salvation through obedience. This is basically the position Pelagius held.

Pelagianism. The name is derived from its chief proponent, Pelagius (ca. 354/60–ca. 418/20), who, in opposition to Augustine, argued that human nature is not utterly depraved after the Fall, but rather is in a state of moral neutrality. It is only through habit that one becomes sinful, and one may exercise human will to surmount sin. Pelagius further taught that one may take the first step toward salvation apart from divine grace. Pelagianism was condemned as heresy in the fourth century, and Augustine’s doctrines of the Fall and original sin were embraced as the »orthodox teaching.

Nichols, L. A., Mather, G. A., & Schmidt, A. J. (2006). In Encyclopedic Dictionary of Cults, Sects, and World Religions (p. 432). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

In view of this, many skirt the charges of heresy by claiming Grace offers heaven to all who choose to believe. But in reality, there is no offer. Jesus preaches (announces) whoever believes already has eternal life.

But here’s some good news. People who choose to believe already believe (have eternal life) or they would not choose to believe. They would look away enjoying their sins.

Dave,

You begin another thread on the same issue yet still do not place any scriptural evidence.

Grabbing mans opinions does not validate that belief system you are defending. Romans 3:23; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-3 - should really be all the evidence needed to come to this conclusion.

2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 John 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Is what you and I need to be doing. And how you do that is with scripture.

Please, I implore you, show me how this does not involve a choice.

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Can you by chance explain this?
 
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-57

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Dave,

You begin another thread on the same issue yet still do not place any scriptural evidence.

Grabbing mans opinions does not validate that belief system you are defending. Romans 3:23; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-3 - should really be all the evidence needed to come to this conclusion.

2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 John 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Is what you and I need to be doing. And how you do that is with scripture.

Please, I implore you, show me how this does not involve a choice.

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Can you by chance explain this?
Concerning salvation....and free-will....what does an individual base their choice to accept or reject Jesus on?
 
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JacksBratt

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How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

Free Will is an effect of salvation. Before salvation the will is enslaved to sin.

Yes, we are enslaved by sin but have free will within that... not only to repent but also not to.
 
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dms1972

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What if the preacher is preaching Jesus isn't God....is the Holy Spirit limited by the preacher's theology?

In the context of the thread I am thinking of if he holds to calvinism or arminianism, do either of these theologies say that Jesus isn't God?
 
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Acts2:38

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Concerning salvation....and free-will....what does an individual base their choice to accept or reject Jesus on?

Hearing the word Romans 10:17

And believe that Jesus is indeed the Son of God who came to this earth and sacrificed himself for us on the cross Hebrews 11:6

However, we know by direct scripture and scripture that implies such, there will be those that chose not to believe.

King Agrippa - Acts 26
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.


"almost" means he didnt chose.
 
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Dave L

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Dave,

You begin another thread on the same issue yet still do not place any scriptural evidence.

Grabbing mans opinions does not validate that belief system you are defending. Romans 3:23; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 1 Timothy 4:1-3 - should really be all the evidence needed to come to this conclusion.

2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 John 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 - Is what you and I need to be doing. And how you do that is with scripture.

Please, I implore you, show me how this does not involve a choice.

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Can you by chance explain this?
Only the saved will believe any of this. Doubters will look the other way.
 
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