Report: Patriarch Bartholomew says reunion with Catholic Church is “inevitable”

Michie

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According to a report by the Union of Orthodox Journalists, Patriarch Bartholomew said full communion with the Catholic Church is “inevitable.”

The report by the Union of Orthodox Journalists says Patriarch Bartholomew’s comments came during his trip last month to the Pantokrator Monastery on Mount Athos in Greece.

Continued below.
Report: Patriarch Bartholomew Says Reunion with Catholic Church Is "Inevitable" | uCatholic
 

~Anastasia~

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Rather surprising. Don't get me wrong - I would LOVE to see the Church come together everywhere possible. Not only Catholics with Orthodox, but also Oriental Orthodox and Protestants of various kinds. As to whether we are brothers - God judges each person individually and that's not for me to say. The name over the door doesn't define the heart toward God.

But I think this is a pretty simplistic treatment. I think I'll leave it at that. Much would need to be resolved.

Peace to us all, and God be with you.
 
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dzheremi

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Rather surprising. Don't get me wrong - I would LOVE to see the Church come together everywhere possible. Not only Catholics with Orthodox, but also Oriental Orthodox and Protestants of various kinds.

Well...Chalcedonians gotta Chalcedon, I suppose, but I don't see it happening. Maybeeee the Chalcedonians would reunite (it would make sense, in a way, but I doubt it would last without a major metanoia), but why then would we follow? It's not like we had such a great experience with the imperial Church in Byzantium the first time that we're just clamoring to go back to that! :p
 
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~Anastasia~

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Well...Chalcedonians gotta Chalcedon, I suppose, but I don't see it happening. Maybeeee the Chalcedonians would reunite (it would make sense, in a way, but I doubt it would last without a major metanoia), but why then would we follow? It's not like we had such a great experience with the imperial Church in Byzantium the first time that we're just clamoring to go back to that! :p
Call me a dreamer and a fool, but I still have more hope (and desire) for Eastern and Oriental Orthodox to reunite.
 
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chevyontheriver

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According to a report by the Union of Orthodox Journalists, Patriarch Bartholomew said full communion with the Catholic Church is “inevitable.”
Ain't gonna happen without a ton of repenting happening first. As Yves Congar said fifty or so years ago, the problem is having grown to accept that the schism is normal.

It's not at all normal. It's totally abnormal. It's sinful. It does daily damage to the witness for Christ that the Church should be doing. Society is crumbling around us and we still can't figure out how to be one in Christ like we are supposed to be.

Some actively do not want it. Many will deride patriarch Bartholomew because of what he said. I just look at the situation and I think it just ain't gonna happen. Not this side of the second coming. And that's a shame.
 
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tz620q

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According to a report by the Union of Orthodox Journalists, Patriarch Bartholomew said full communion with the Catholic Church is “inevitable.”

The report by the Union of Orthodox Journalists says Patriarch Bartholomew’s comments came during his trip last month to the Pantokrator Monastery on Mount Athos in Greece.

Continued below.
Report: Patriarch Bartholomew Says Reunion with Catholic Church Is "Inevitable" | uCatholic
In the article, Patriarch Bartholomew says that the division is not theological; but historical. I believe that is true; but that is how we got to where we are. To envision a future together, we have to recognize that the division is promulgated by politics, not history. Until we can break down the political barriers within the church, we will not be allowed to come closer together. Think about it, the meeting in 2016 between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill was the first such meeting in history. So we have over 500 years where there was never a need for these two leaders to meet?
 
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dzheremi

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In the article, Patriarch Bartholomew says that the division is not theological; but historical. I believe that is true [...] To envision a future together, we have to recognize that the division is promulgated by politics, not history.

:scratch:
 
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tz620q

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Both sides have to come out from behind propaganda and acknowledge the other. That has more or less happened; but the outstretched hand keeps disappearing between the Moscow Patriarch and the Catholic Church. For years, the Russians would not belong to the ecumenical dialogue with the Catholic Church because the dialogue included some group of Orthodox that the Russians currently didn't like. After Havana, everyone thought there was a thaw; but that froze over with the schism between the EP and the MP now. If the MP cannot even acknowledge the existence of other Orthodox groups, how will he ever yield to being a small fish in the large reunified church of the Orthodox Catholic Church. In one step he would go from being roughly 66% of the church to being roughly 13%. As far as Ukraine, he would lose all leverage to regaining control of the church there.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Politics are certainly a potential issue whenever men are involved. But politics CAN be overcome.

Despite what the article seems to imply, we do have theological differences. Those are what matters from an Orthodox point of view.

Whoever is Patriarch over Moscow or Constantinople or wherever will change. It always does. The Theology will always need to be addressed.

Though I think if we discuss carefully, I'm guessing we will discover the differences are smaller than many Orthodox think, but larger than many Catholics think. But they need to be addressed regardless.
 
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Gnarwhal

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People talk about unity quite a bit on r/Catholicism, and this one guy wrote a real succinct post for why it won't happen. I thought he brought up some good points, so I'll just share his post below:

Not gonna happen.

I'll paste what I wrote on a similar thread not long ago:

  1. Their more decentralized ecclesiology. If one bishop/patriarch enters into communion with Rome, the others will denounce him as a heretic and schismatic and depose him. Furthermore, even if a council of Orthodox bishops agreed to full reunion, there's no way to enforce that on the entire Orthodox world. There would just be another schism.

  2. The Orthodox still loudly and proudly assert that they alone are the true Catholic Church and that the Roman patriarchy is in schism along with various formerly Orthodox Eastern groups who have switched sides at some point. Compare this to the Catholic world, where since Vatican II there has been a steady degradation of the belief that the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ among the clergy and laity alike, leading to the unofficial adoption of either Branch Theory or Invisible Church theory instead.

  3. Most Orthodox theologians believe that the Western Christianity is irreparably corrupted and should be abandoned. The Roman Rite would need to be heavily Byzantified to be seen as Orthodox. Their "Western Rite" Divine Liturgy is a real-life example of this.

  4. The Orthodox Church formally condemned Catholic views of the Filioque and Papal power, among other things, in the Sigillion of 1583, which remains in force. They cannot go back on this as it was part of a pan-Orthodox council and is therefore binding.

  5. Vatican I anathematized those who do not accept the Catholic view of papal power. The 1965 lifting of anathemas only applied to the 1054 excommunications, not anything subsequent to those events. We cannot go back on this as it is part of what we recognized as an ecumenical council.

  6. The Orthodox would NEVER accept Vatican II, ever.

I've definitely seen his third point for myself, which is a big reason why I repudiated Orthodoxy, because nothing can hold a candle to the beauty and truth of the western liturgy when properly executed (Traditional Roman Rite, Traditional Dominican Rite, Anglican Use, etc).
 
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~Anastasia~

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I think it's much more about particular theologies which Rome pronounced and are not part of Orthodoxy. Since this certainly isn't my place to criticize them here, I don't even see a point of listing them.

I suspect most Catholics would no more like the idea of being told they need to abandon some of them than Orthodox would accept being told we must embrace them.

There are more nuanced differences. But the Liturgy isn't so much the problem. I've seen Liturgies in some countries (African videos come to mind) where the musical style and movement of the people is unrecognizable to me, for example. But it is accepted for those communities because it reflects their own sensibilities.

Please forgive me. I'm not looking to argue. And this is your forum. Im just hopeful that acknowledging the real issues that will take sorting out (vs minor ones that some persons might object to but which ultimately don't bar communion) might be helpful?

I don't see it happening in our lifetimes. (Orthodoxy for one is VERY slow to move on things.) But it would still be my desire for us to become TRULY unified - one in faith, belief, and communion. I hope you can accept my small opinion with it being offered in that spirit.
 
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