Practicing Orthodox spirituality within RCC

Stabat Mater dolorosa

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This is something I'm thinking about as I read orthodox literature.
Why do I have to convert into a ethnocentric parish with either russian sentiments or greek sentiments when I'm culturally at home in the west?

I'm very hesitant to go for a third approach into Holy Orthodoxy for a number of reasons. Besides I'm neither russian nor greek enough for most orthodox.
I'm thinking of Pat. Bartholomew as a heretic and Pope Francis smaller sibling and for that reason I'm not cut out to go EP. As I see it I'm justing moving one step farther away from the cliff in the Roman church.

I'm not pro russian enough to be a good fit for the MP. I'm against the link between Putin and Pat. Kirill and I'm not into church slavonic etc.

On top of everything I absolutely hate sung liturgies. No kidding, I can't stand it!

So as you might see the reasons for me to dox officially are rather few in numbers. But, and this is a rather big but (pun not indented), I've fallen in love with Neptic theology and I absolutely adore this way of theology.
To think of God in these terms has enlightened my whole being, my spirit and my heart rejoice as I read about it!

Could I try to adopt the orthodox spirituality and receive the sacraments in the RCC you think? I'm toying with the idea of adopting the eastern orthodox fasting and prayers too.

Any thoughts? Will this be all in vain as you guys see it?


God bless.
 

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This is something I'm thinking about as I read orthodox literature.
Why do I have to convert into a ethnocentric parish with either russian sentiments or greek sentiments when I'm culturally at home in the west?

I'm very hesitant to go for a third approach into Holy Orthodoxy for a number of reasons. Besides I'm neither russian nor greek enough for most orthodox.
I'm thinking of Pat. Bartholomew as a heretic and Pope Francis smaller sibling and for that reason I'm not cut out to go EP. As I see it I'm justing moving one step farther away from the cliff in the Roman church.

I'm not pro russian enough to be a good fit for the MP. I'm against the link between Putin and Pat. Kirill and I'm not into church slavonic etc.

On top of everything I absolutely hate sung liturgies. No kidding, I can't stand it!

So as you might see the reasons for me to dox officially are rather few in numbers. But, and this is a rather big but (pun not indented), I've fallen in love with Neptic theology and I absolutely adore this way of theology.
To think of God in these terms has enlightened my whole being, my spirit and my heart rejoice as I read about it!

Could I try to adopt the orthodox spirituality and receive the sacraments in the RCC you think? I'm toying with the idea of adopting the eastern orthodox fasting and prayers too.

Any thoughts? Will this be all in vain as you guys see it?


God bless.
Well that was kind of my plan in the beginning.

My mistake (from that point of view) was to attend the Divine Liturgy. I couldn't want to remain an outsider after that.

If that is as close as you are able/willing to come, it's not for me to say you can benefit or not from it. There are those who practice extremely long as outsiders/inquirers/catechumens.

Your beliefs on communion may be central for you.

You know there IS a western rite in Orthodoxy?
 
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~Anastasia~

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Well that was kind of my plan in the beginning.

My mistake (from that point of view) was to attend the Divine Liturgy. I couldn't want to remain an outsider after that.

If that is as close as you are able/willing to come, it's not for me to say you can benefit or not from it. There are those who practice extremely long as outsiders/inquirers/catechumens.

Your beliefs on communion may be central for you.

You know there IS a western rite in Orthodoxy?
I would edit but don't want to risk being misunderstood ... I meant people practice from outside WITH HELP from an Orthodox guide. Fr Matt makes a good point. It can be very dangerous to simply attempt fasting, prayers, and Orthodox spirituality in a self-guided sense. I am very aware of that - it's a long story but I read Orthodox books before I knew what Orthodoxy was and put some into practice - and paid very very dearly. I just thank God He brought me back.
 
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Not David

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This is something I'm thinking about as I read orthodox literature.
Why do I have to convert into a ethnocentric parish with either russian sentiments or greek sentiments when I'm culturally at home in the west?

I'm very hesitant to go for a third approach into Holy Orthodoxy for a number of reasons. Besides I'm neither russian nor greek enough for most orthodox.
I'm thinking of Pat. Bartholomew as a heretic and Pope Francis smaller sibling and for that reason I'm not cut out to go EP. As I see it I'm justing moving one step farther away from the cliff in the Roman church.

I'm not pro russian enough to be a good fit for the MP. I'm against the link between Putin and Pat. Kirill and I'm not into church slavonic etc.

On top of everything I absolutely hate sung liturgies. No kidding, I can't stand it!

So as you might see the reasons for me to dox officially are rather few in numbers. But, and this is a rather big but (pun not indented), I've fallen in love with Neptic theology and I absolutely adore this way of theology.
To think of God in these terms has enlightened my whole being, my spirit and my heart rejoice as I read about it!

Could I try to adopt the orthodox spirituality and receive the sacraments in the RCC you think? I'm toying with the idea of adopting the eastern orthodox fasting and prayers too.

Any thoughts? Will this be all in vain as you guys see it?


God bless.
Orthodoxy should not be about LARPing as Greek nor Russian and I say that as a brown mestizo South American who got used to White American Culture. ;)
 
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Chesterton

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Besides I'm neither russian nor greek enough for most orthodox.
Assuming you don't actually live in Vatican City, are you anywhere near an Antiochian church? In America they tend to be less ethnic.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Assuming you don't actually live in Vatican City, are you anywhere near an Antiochian church? In America they tend to be less ethnic.

Lol, I'm not living in the Vatican. I should remove that shouldn't I?
No I dont, I'm living in Norway and needless to say the orthodox are few in numbers. It's all secteric unfortunately.

I guess its human tendencies with tribalism etc which are bound to make an impact on smaller congregations. It's sad though and as I've said on this board before, the congregation seems to prefer to keep outsiders on the outside.

This does most certainly not involve the clergy which has been VERY good to me.

I know father in the russian church very well from the time I really needed him. He's a spiritual compass for alot of people, with good reason.

That being said russians and greeks prefer their congregation to remain russian and greek. I totally get that, no worries. Many of them hold low status jobs and have a rather poor income.
I guess they feel the need to have this ONE place for themselves. A place where they can share their culture and the struggles without coming across the opposites of the society.

It makes sense and I understand them. That being said it makes me feel unwanted. No one has ever said anything like this upfront, but when no one approach you during coffee hour except the priest, time and time again, it's getting tedious.
 
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dzheremi

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Trying to be Orthodox in the RCC is like going on a hunger strike in the ice cream isle of the supermarket. Regardless of whether or not it's possible in some theoretical way (cf. the idea of 'we know where the church is, but not where she is not'), you're setting yourself up for failure and disappointment when it's not necessary that you do so.

I didn't join the Eastern Orthodox Church, obviously, but when I recognized and admitted to myself that I couldn't in good conscience be a member of the Roman Catholic Church anymore, I voluntarily removed myself from communion with it, and set about studying my other options to determine where I should be. That took three years, only in the last of which was I able to attend a Coptic Orthodox liturgy. If I had the opportunity to do it over again, I would certainly prefer to first go to liturgy (or vespers, since that's less of a commitment) and then start trying to figure things out. This whole idea that we need to have everything sorted out in our heads before we do anything (which I know you're not necessarily saying, OP, but I certainly was at the time...again, Roman Catholic ;)) can be very much turned upside down by the actual process of joining the faith. Or at least is likely to be, given the Eastern Orthodox Church's holistic, lived approach (if it is right that I opine about that without being one of you guys).

If I were you, I would invite myself to have this "turning upside down" of not only my expectations, but also the mental categories that have served as the boundaries of my religious practice until now. So not just "I don't like sung liturgies, so I guess I'll just have to get used to it", but "why is it so important that liturgies be sung? What is the meaning of that?" That's one of the ways to get a lot out of the liturgy even if you aren't 100% decided on everything in it. (And I still find myself asking that very often, and I joined the Coptic Orthodox Church almost eight years ago! Maybe I'm just a little slow...)
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Well that was kind of my plan in the beginning.

My mistake (from that point of view) was to attend the Divine Liturgy. I couldn't want to remain an outsider after that.

If that is as close as you are able/willing to come, it's not for me to say you can benefit or not from it. There are those who practice extremely long as outsiders/inquirers/catechumens.

Your beliefs on communion may be central for you.

You know there IS a western rite in Orthodoxy?

I'm living in Norway so western liturgies are rare. That being said we do have no Norwegian parish, but its EP...

My beliefs regarding communion is essentially in line with both of our churches (they differ very little from one another).
Apostolic succession is vital obviously, but I'm obviously favoring orthodox theology too.

That being said if I were to go ahead with my Orthodoxy within RCC I would focus on the succession and the intent of my heart. I'm sure the Lord sees that I'm trying hard to grow in holiness.

When / if the time comes I just might dox officially, but it's a long road for me to undertake. I've gone to vespers in the past, but I felt like everyone staring at me as I came in the door.
It's very weird to be honest...
 
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ArmyMatt

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If I do my fasting etc with the spiritual direction of father in the russian church, will that be better fr. Matt?

no, because you still need Orthodox sacramental life.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Besides the inner schisms in Orthodoxy dims my eagerness to get involved too. This was literally the only thing that they were talking about in the greek church when I went there. Oh yes, and the hopefulness of Pat. Bartholomew and Pope Francis patching things up... *sigh*
 
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dzheremi

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Besides the inner schisms in Orthodoxy dims my eagerness to get involved too. This was literally the only thing that they were talking about in the greek church when I went there. Oh yes, and the hopefulness of Pat. Bartholomew and Pope Francis patching things up... *sigh*

Do you feel the same about where you are now, or differently?

Just curious, because to the outsider it can seem like Rome also plagued with division.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Do you feel the same about where you are now, or differently?

Just curious, because to the outsider it can seem like Rome also plagued with division.

Oh yes, very much so.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I think a lot depends on the local parish.

Thankfully ours was very welcoming. And we have not only Greeks (Greek parish) but Romanians, Russians, Ukrainians, Ethiopians, and people from many places. TBH I think they are mostly unaware of any official or temporary divisions between us. And I am certainly not going to bring it up.


With that said, we just got a new priest, and he is Greek. (Our former priest was a convert.) The man is lovely, but I went to a weekday Liturgy the other day and it was much more heavily Greek than I'm used to, and being that he pronounced a little differently, read some parts aloud/quietly differently from our former priest, and so on ... I was less connected to the Liturgy than I was before. (I don't understand the whole thing in Greek, only parts, but I rely also on my familiarity which I had less of just because of a different priest and different ways of doing things.) The Greeks seem to love it - it was well-attended for a weekday. And I also noticed they were chatting only in Greek. I felt an outsider in my own parish in a way I had not since I was new. No one intended it, and they greeted me warmly. But no one talked to me that I could understand much either. I'm not upset though. I know they didn't do it to exclude me but are just probably very pleased to have back some familiarity.

Anyway. I've visited parishes and felt like an outsider, though rarely for ethnic reasons. More often - much more often - I've been greeted and enfolded regardless of the people's ethnicity or what they perceived mine to be. (Greeks sometimes think I'm Slavic and Slavs sometimes assume I'm Greek lol)

I know a little how it can feel. I know it isn't supposed to be that way. I know it can seem that way for reasons that actually have nothing personal to do with me. But I know it can be hard.

Thankfully I've gotten more confident. When I was younger, I was probably one of the most painfully shy and awkward people of anyone I met. But it can still be hard sometimes. Still - like I said, it's rarely personal. You seem to already know that though. :)
 
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zippy2006

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This is something I'm thinking about as I read orthodox literature.
Why do I have to convert into a ethnocentric parish with either russian sentiments or greek sentiments when I'm culturally at home in the west?

I'm very hesitant to go for a third approach into Holy Orthodoxy for a number of reasons. Besides I'm neither russian nor greek enough for most orthodox.
I'm thinking of Pat. Bartholomew as a heretic and Pope Francis smaller sibling and for that reason I'm not cut out to go EP. As I see it I'm justing moving one step farther away from the cliff in the Roman church.

I'm not pro russian enough to be a good fit for the MP. I'm against the link between Putin and Pat. Kirill and I'm not into church slavonic etc.

On top of everything I absolutely hate sung liturgies. No kidding, I can't stand it!

So as you might see the reasons for me to dox officially are rather few in numbers. But, and this is a rather big but (pun not indented), I've fallen in love with Neptic theology and I absolutely adore this way of theology.
To think of God in these terms has enlightened my whole being, my spirit and my heart rejoice as I read about it!

Could I try to adopt the orthodox spirituality and receive the sacraments in the RCC you think? I'm toying with the idea of adopting the eastern orthodox fasting and prayers too.

Any thoughts? Will this be all in vain as you guys see it?


God bless.

I am a Catholic and I don't see how nepsis or fasting is incompatible with Catholicism. Further, the question has to be asked: have you looked into Eastern Catholic Churches?
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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I am a Catholic and I don't see how nepsis or fasting is incompatible with Catholicism. Further, the question has to be asked: have you looked into Eastern Catholic Churches?

Yes, nothing too see there... just a whole lot of half bloods.
 
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