LDS The Mormon Adam Was Baptized & Held the Priesthood

He is the way

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It leads people to JS---all His writings lead to JS not the bible and God. They lead to his theories. The God He presents is not the God of the bible.
The Book of Mormon is the word of God as is the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. They lead people to Jesus Christ and God the Father. Joseph Smith did not make them up. For years people have tried to prove that he was wrong going through every word and every prophecy he ever dictated, but they have failed. Joseph Smith was not perfect. Were any of the other prophets besides Jesus Christ perfect? It has been proven to me that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. That being said each person needs to seek their own proof and do their own work to glorify God.
 
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Peter1000

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It leads people to JS---all His writings lead to JS not the bible and God. They lead to his theories. The God He presents is not the God of the bible.
JS did not write to lead us to the bible. He did write to lead us to God and Jesus. All the bible does is lead us to God and Jesus too. They are both for the same purpose.

I can find fifty gods of the bible. Why do you think there are 3,000+ Christian church all using the current bibles, and all teaching conflicting doctrines.

At least we have 4 sources to look at to get our bearings. If the bible says it, and the BOM says it and the D&C says it and the PoGP says it, then you can get a pretty good idea that it is a correct doctrine, and I could defend it to the nth degree.

If the bible and the BOM say the same doctrine, I will defend it to the nth degree.

If the bible only says it, or the BOM only says it, then I will wait to defend to the nth degree until more information is given.

At any rate with more than 1 source, I believe we have an advantage on what is true.

If you want to stay exclusively with the doctrines in the bible, go ahead, but you must debate with 3,000 other Christian churches as to what is the actual truth.
 
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He is the way

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According to your prophets, only certain people will be able to spend eternity with God in His presence. Scripturer teaches that all will do so. Not having a Father or wife is a part of who God is or He would not have made it clear that there was no God before and there will be no God after Him---He is the only God from everlasting to everlasting with the Holy Spirit and His one and Only Son---One God. Jesus kept all the commandments of God or He would not have been able to be our Redeemer. He did not keep the rules of the Pharisees, but always the rules of God. Jesus did not ever state that the Word has been altered and can not be relied on. He pointed to the scriptures and the scriptures He had were only the OT. He certainly said nothing like what you claim are truths---like the Father having a Father, wive, or that we lived berfore being born--none of that stuff. He expanded on what was there such as adultery is more than the act but it is what is in the mind. That is not adding, it is getting to the spirit of the law.
Jesus was accused of blasphemy, but it was not blasphemy for Him to forgive sins and claim to be the Son of God---for He is.
You said: "According to your prophets, only certain people will be able to spend eternity with God in His presence. Scripturer teaches that all will do so."

Not so: Speaking of His apostles Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 17:12)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas was lost.

Then we have this:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:14 - 15)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And this:

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(New Testament | 1 John 5:16 - 17)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
 
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He is the way

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It leads people to JS---all His writings lead to JS not the bible and God. They lead to his theories. The God He presents is not the God of the bible.
You also are relying on theories. Do you believe that God created the universe out of nothing? Do you believe that God created the earth in 7 earth days? Do you believe that we (our spirits) are not conscious after we die? These things are not Biblical. I believe that people over complicate the gospel:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
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mmksparbud

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You said: "According to your prophets, only certain people will be able to spend eternity with God in His presence. Scripturer teaches that all will do so."

Not so: Speaking of His apostles Jesus said:

(New Testament | John 17:12)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas was lost.

Then we have this:

(New Testament | Revelation 20:14 - 15)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And this:

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(New Testament | 1 John 5:16 - 17)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Oh For Pete's sake! You know very will I mean all the saved will live in His presence!! Everybody knows the lost will not. Some believe they spend eternity inn hell, do not, I believe what God says---they will be ashes under our feet. Why are you acting as though what I said means both lost and saved? You teach the saved will be in different places, only a few of those saved will actually live in His presence. The bible teaches that all the saved will live in His presence. Not just those with wives sealed by a Mormon priest and those that have done all those things that your church demands of them.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

All the saved. We've had this talk before---it is all the saved will be in His presence---not a select few.
 
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mmksparbud

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JS did not write to lead us to the bible. He did write to lead us to God and Jesus. All the bible does is lead us to God and Jesus too. They are both for the same purpose.

Exactly!!! The prophets always leaf to the scriptures. Jesus pointed to the scriptures--most of the NT are quotes from the OT. The apostles said to read the scriptures. Your prophets say to read them, believe them. But it is the word of God that shows the real God. No they are not for the same purpose! your prophets lead to a false God---not the God of the bible.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Mat_22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Luk_24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk_24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 
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mmksparbud

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You also are relying on theories. Do you believe that God created the universe out of nothing? Do you believe that God created the earth in 7 earth days? Do you believe that we (our spirits) are not conscious after we die? These things are not Biblical. I believe that people over complicate the gospel:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Those are not theories---those are bible facts and you know it. Complicate the gospel?! You are the ones adding all sorts of fables and stuff never mentioned in the bible! It is you that have complicated the gospel. All these things that the church says will says must be met to achieve exaltation have nothing to do with what the gospel says will save! It is lip service you offer. You quote the bible--but teach your prophet's ideas. Yes, we are to love God and our fellow men and from that love we will keep HIS commandments, not the commandments of any church. You teach it is the church that saves---the bible says it is Jesus.
 
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mmksparbud

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If you want to stay exclusively with the doctrines in the bible, go ahead, but you must debate with 3,000 other Christian churches as to what is the actual truth.

It is preferable to be on the side of the scriptures and argue about them, than to have a bunch of stories that have nothing to do with the bible. It is preferable to argue about the word of God than about the word of men---the word of men have no salvation in them, there is no truth in them---the scriptures do.

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Don't mind arguing about truth---no need to argue about lies.
 
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He is the way

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Oh For Pete's sake! You know very will I mean all the saved will live in His presence!! Everybody knows the lost will not. Some believe they spend eternity inn hell, do not, I believe what God says---they will be ashes under our feet. Why are you acting as though what I said means both lost and saved? You teach the saved will be in different places, only a few of those saved will actually live in His presence. The bible teaches that all the saved will live in His presence. Not just those with wives sealed by a Mormon priest and those that have done all those things that your church demands of them.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

All the saved. We've had this talk before---it is all the saved will be in His presence---not a select few.
(New Testament | John 14:2 - 3)

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:35 - 47)

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
 
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mmksparbud

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(New Testament | John 14:2 - 3)

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:35 - 47)

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What are all these verses supposed to be saying? You are great at posting verses with absolutely no reasoning for mentioning them. What is your point?
 
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mmksparbud

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At any rate with more than 1 source, I believe we have an advantage on what is true.

That is exactly what you problem is---for there is only one source that God has given---His word. And it is to it that sll doctrines must conform to. It is the litmus test.

Such as---you teach that Jesus is one of many sons--you teach that we all lived before becoming human--and that Jesus also had to become human in order to become God.

That means that Jesus is not the Only begotten son of God---for every son (or daughter) of God has had to become human in order to go on to become gods. So, in essence, you teach every single human is a begotten child of God---which totally contradicts the bible. This teaching has nothing to do with truth. Just another attempt by Satan to diminish what Jesus has done and elevate man. That is what your prophets do---diminish God, elevate man. They are false prophets. LISTEN TO THE REAL HOLY SPIRIT--y YOU HAVE GRIEVED HIM, BUT YOU CAN STILL HEAR HIM --HIS VOICE IS GETTING DIMMER, BUT LISTEN AND IT WILL BECOME LOUDER.
 
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He is the way

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Those are not theories---those are bible facts and you know it. Complicate the gospel?! You are the ones adding all sorts of fables and stuff never mentioned in the bible! It is you that have complicated the gospel. All these things that the church says will says must be met to achieve exaltation have nothing to do with what the gospel says will save! It is lip service you offer. You quote the bible--but teach your prophet's ideas. Yes, we are to love God and our fellow men and from that love we will keep HIS commandments, not the commandments of any church. You teach it is the church that saves---the bible says it is Jesus.
It is a known fact that the sun moon and stars were not created until the forth day:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:16 - 19)

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Besides the day of God is one thousand years:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 3:8)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The saving ordinances need to be performed by proper authority:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:4)

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
 
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He is the way

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What are all these verses supposed to be saying? You are great at posting verses with absolutely no reasoning for mentioning them. What is your point?
The point is that we are not all resurrected with equal glorified bodies. Some have greater glory than others. Some have greater intellect.
 
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Peter1000

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Of course you do. That doesn't mean God thinks so. Certainly your prophets and the scritpures are not in aliegnment.

The words of Abraham in 2000bc do not align exactly with Moses's in 1400bc. The words of Moses do not align exactly with Jesus's words in 30ad. The words of Jesus in 30ad do not align exactly with Paul's words in 60ad.

I would not expect a prophet, speaking in 1830ad to be saying exactly what a prophet said in the first century.

Their words should be centered in Jesus Christ and how we are saved in the kingdom of God.
But 1830 is a lot different place than 60 so I would expect some additional information that may not have pertained to ancient people.

So just because the words of JS do not exactly align themselves with the words of Paul, I would not be too concerned, because remember, Pauls words do not even align exactly with Jesus's words.
 
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Peter1000

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That is exactly what you problem is---for there is only one source that God has given---His word. And it is to it that sll doctrines must conform to. It is the litmus test.

Such as---you teach that Jesus is one of many sons--you teach that we all lived before becoming human--and that Jesus also had to become human in order to become God.

That means that Jesus is not the Only begotten son of God---for every son (or daughter) of God has had to become human in order to go on to become gods. So, in essence, you teach every single human is a begotten child of God---which totally contradicts the bible. This teaching has nothing to do with truth. Just another attempt by Satan to diminish what Jesus has done and elevate man. That is what your prophets do---diminish God, elevate man. They are false prophets. LISTEN TO THE REAL HOLY SPIRIT--y YOU HAVE GRIEVED HIM, BUT YOU CAN STILL HEAR HIM --HIS VOICE IS GETTING DIMMER, BUT LISTEN AND IT WILL BECOME LOUDER.
We believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He is the only one that was born in the flesh and God was his Father and a mortal woman Mary was his mother. There is not one other of the Fathers spirit children that were sired by Him in the flesh. Only Jesus. The one and only Son that was begotten in the flesh.

Jesus was also the firstborn Son of God in the spirit. From the beginning he was with the Father and hated iniquity and loved righteousness and became a God himself, God the Father even acknowledged this in Psalms 45:7 when he anointed Jesus with the oil of gladness ABOVE THY FELLOWS. (Jesus's other spirit brothers)

So if you think JS do not align with the bible, you are just wrong. Plenty of scripture that tell us of the pre-earth life of Jesus and his fellows. (you being one of them). Keep studying and you will see what I mean.
 
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Peter1000

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It is preferable to be on the side of the scriptures and argue about them, than to have a bunch of stories that have nothing to do with the bible. It is preferable to argue about the word of God than about the word of men---the word of men have no salvation in them, there is no truth in them---the scriptures do.

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Don't mind arguing about truth---no need to argue about lies.
Go ahead and argue the 'truth'. But just remember, that the reason you are arguing is because those you are arguing with do not believe you have the 'truth'.

It is a dilemma.
 
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Peter1000

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Those are not theories---those are bible facts and you know it. Complicate the gospel?! You are the ones adding all sorts of fables and stuff never mentioned in the bible! It is you that have complicated the gospel. All these things that the church says will says must be met to achieve exaltation have nothing to do with what the gospel says will save! It is lip service you offer. You quote the bible--but teach your prophet's ideas. Yes, we are to love God and our fellow men and from that love we will keep HIS commandments, not the commandments of any church. You teach it is the church that saves---the bible says it is Jesus.
You have to be practical about the process. Jesus says to be baptized in order to be saved, but he cannot come down from heaven and baptize each of us.

So Jesus set up the church to do this work, with men that had the proper authority to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

This church, in the name of Jesus Christ can in essence save you because it calls on Jesus properly to save you.

If you belonged to the church of the Nicolaitanes, instead of the church that Peter was the head of, then neither their church or Jesus could save you.
So the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints, in essence had the power to save you, but only in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Church of the Nicolaitanes did not have the power to save you, and they put you on the wrong path that even Jesus Christ would not save you either, unless you were to repent and come over the the Church that Peter builded up by the power and authority of Jesus Christ.

Remember whatever Peter and the apostles did was recognized in heaven. What the Nicolaitanes did was not. Peter's church could save, Nicolas's church could not.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The true gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth again.

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel to the one you received, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:6-9

The true Gospel never stopped being preached, so it never needed to be restored.

What you are preaching is absolutely not the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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The true gospel is the gospel of LOVE.

I agree, but not our love, but God's.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whoever trusts upon Him will not perish but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

"God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are." - John 3:1a

God's love. The love which God has for the world, in which He sent His only-begotten Son, born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, who lived, suffered, was crucified, dead and buried, who rose from the dead in victory over sin, death, hell, and the devil; in whom we have forgiveness of sins, peace and reconciliation with God, and hope of life everlasting.

That's the Gospel
.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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I agree, but not our love, but God's.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whoever trusts upon Him will not perish but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

"God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are." - John 3:1a

God's love. The love which God has for the world, in which He sent His only-begotten Son, born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, who lived, suffered, was crucified, dead and buried, who rose from the dead in victory over sin, death, hell, and the devil; in whom we have forgiveness of sins, peace and reconciliation with God, and hope of life everlasting.

That's the Gospel
.

-CryptoLutheran
That is only part of the gospel of LOVE. He LOVED us so we should LOVE Him:

(New Testament | James 2:5)

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

(New Testament | 1 John 3:10 - 11)

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

(New Testament | 1 John 3:16 - 18)

16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

(New Testament | 1 John 4:7 - 11)

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

(New Testament | 1 John 5:2 - 4)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

LOVE needs to be reciprocated. We LOVE God by keeping the commandments of LOVE. The harsh reality is when a person ends up in a kingdom where there is NO LOVE.
 
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