Were the angels lying?

DennisTate

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"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

Questions

1. Were the angels lying?

2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?

3. What does all mean?


Back in the 1970's I was taught that Ezekiel 37

1 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are clean cut off.

12 Therefore prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, O my people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I have opened your graves, and caused you to come up out of your graves, O my people.

14 And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I will place you in your own land: and ye shall know that I, Jehovah, have spoken it and performed it, saith Jehovah.

fits with the White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20 .


11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

If this theory is true and if Ezekiel chapter thirty seven can happen again and again and again then Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may be going closer and closer and closer to saving more and more of the lost in non linear time?

Yes... this is a strange idea and I could be reading too much into a new idea in Theoretical Physics called Multiverse Theory.

If those two chapters fit together then Romans 9
Romans 10
and Romans 11
could well look quite different.

13 But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy [them that are] my flesh, and may save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them [is] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?

16 And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; 18 glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

30 For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31 even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they also may now obtain mercy.

32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
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FineLinen

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Dear Dennis: My brother, the day an individual attempts to stand in His Presence there comes deep sobs of Holy>>>Holy>>>Holy>>>The whole earth is full of Your glory.

What a wonderfully glorious thing to realize, God has shut up the all to disobedience "not willingly". And why has the Author & Finisher done such a thing?

Mercy upon the all
 
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FineLinen

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1. It came upon the midnight clear,
That glorious song of old,
From angels bending near the earth
To touch their harps of gold;
"Peace on the earth, good will to men
From heaven’s all-gracious King" –
The world in solemn stillness lay
To hear the angels sing.

2. Still through the cloven skies they come
With peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heavenly music floats
O'er all the weary world;
Above its sad and lowly plains
They bend on hovering wing,
And ever o'er its Babel-sounds
The blessed angels sing.

3. But with the woes of sin and strife
The world has suffered long;
Beneath the angel-strain have rolled
Two thousand years of wrong;
And man, at war with man, hears not
The love song which they bring; –
O hush the noise, ye men of strife,
And hear the angels sing!

4. And ye, beneath life's crushing load,
Whose forms are bending low,
Who toil along the climbing way
With painful steps and slow,
Look now! for glad and golden hours
Come swiftly on the wing; –
Oh, rest beside the weary road
And hear the angels sing!

5. For lo! the days are hastening on
By prophet bards foretold,
When, with the ever circling years
Shall come the age of gold;
When Peace shall over all the earth,
Its ancient splendors fling,
And the whole world give back the song,
Which now the angels sing.

 
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Saint Steven

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I Believe

I believe in "the restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouths of the prophets since the world began." -Acts 3:21-

I believe that the "good tidings of great joy will be to all people." -Luke 2:10

I believe that believers in Christ Jesus are "born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God." -John 1:13-
There is an overwhelming desire in my heart that God's precious people might know that GOD IS GOD, glorious in power, fearful in praises, DOING WONDERS. I long with a great longing that His people will repent of ever having believed the insipid and useless traditions that make the almighty God seem to be a victim of the will of His own creation. It is my opinion that most of the theology of the church system is stupid prattle that seeks to render the almighty God impotent by robbing Him of His omnipotence. It teaches that God gave His Son that all the world through Him might be saved and then renders His sacrifice hopeless by leaving ninety-nine percent of all His creatures in the hands of the devil for all eternity. Such a doctrine as that belittles the power and wisdom of God and does despite to the Spirit of grace, the atoning work of Christ, and the precious blood that He shed so that the world through Him might be saved. Such a doctrine as that is, undoubtedly, one of the "doctrines of devils" of which Paul warned. I say that because I cannot think of anyone outside of the devil himself who would be happy with the prospect that Calvary was such a colossal failure! But the preachers, including some who profess to be in the "Kingdom Message," would lay down their lives for such an abominable heresy!

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1
 
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Der Alte

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Thank you for posting the scripture from which you have made your statements.
I've since done some research and found online that some Bible scholar commentaries and some other perhaps not so scholarly christians but still having exegetical understanding, have addressed the topic concerning the matter of those under the earth confessing that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
(if requested I will post the url/links next time)
As it turns out they show that what I have said in my posts is not, as you have thought, just my opinion.
I will repeat what I've previously stated. What the wicked confess is that Jesus is Lord, they do so, whether they like it or not., to acknowledge that Jesus has authority over them.
I hope this is not too far off topic but I have been addressing this in other threads in this forum.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back).etc”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”
It never means whole-heartedly etc.
…..Scripture does say that every knee will bow but only believers will do so willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies.
How will the enemies of Jesus feel?

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, * Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
…..*”That day" -the day of judgement.
There ain’t no second chance for salvation after judgment and “depart from me.”
The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated three times.

[1.] Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
[2.] Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[3.] Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
But the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, liars" etc. [Revelation 21:8] who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded seven times in scripture. This will actually happen.

[1.] Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[2.] Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[3.] Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[4.] Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[5.] Acts of the apostles 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
[6.] Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[7.] Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
What does “make your enemies your footstool” mean? Joshua shows us in Josh. 10.
Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
Joshua 10:23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
Joshua 10:24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them....
Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.
Joshua was the OT type of Jesus. After being made Joshua's footstool his enemies do not become faithful members of his Army.


 
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nolidad

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There is an overwhelming desire in my heart that God's precious people might know that GOD IS GOD, glorious in power, fearful in praises, DOING WONDERS. I long with a great longing that His people will repent of ever having believed the insipid and useless traditions that make the almighty God seem to be a victim of the will of His own creation. It is my opinion that most of the theology of the church system is stupid prattle that seeks to render the almighty God impotent by robbing Him of His omnipotence. It teaches that God gave His Son that all the world through Him might be saved and then renders His sacrifice hopeless by leaving ninety-nine percent of all His creatures in the hands of the devil for all eternity. Such a doctrine as that belittles the power and wisdom of God and does despite to the Spirit of grace, the atoning work of Christ, and the precious blood that He shed so that the world through Him might be saved. Such a doctrine as that is, undoubtedly, one of the "doctrines of devils" of which Paul warned. I say that because I cannot think of anyone outside of the devil himself who would be happy with the prospect that Calvary was such a colossal failure! But the preachers, including some who profess to be in the "Kingdom Message," would lay down their lives for such an abominable heresy!

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Well I am simply going to call you, and FL and CofA the "squad".

What you have done is establish a belief system, based on a partioal rendering of the verses that deal with soteriology and eternity, and then make a philosophy that demans god because it is His Word that declares the majority of mankind is lost!

When one studies the Word as written, one cannot come away without seeing that Jesus warned the majority of mankind would be lost for all eterntiy!

You accept the falsehood based on reinterpreting words, rejejcting plain language, and using your emotional appeal to cloud the SCriptures that teach against your emotionasl doctrine.

Once again I would love to believe that god is ultimately going to save every single person who ever existed, and even save the fallen angels! But to do that, I would have to trashScripture as it is written and accept a retranslation of the words on the pages.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."
Fear not= phobeō mē
Glad tidings = euaggelizō
Great = megas
Joy = chara
Shall be = esomai
To all people = pas laos
The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.
Questions
1. Were the angels lying?
2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?
3. What does all mean?
Heterodox religious groups can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context. For example,
Matthew 27:5 Judas went and hanged himself.
Luke 10:37 Then said Jesus, Go, and do thou likewise.
Yes, "good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people"
But,

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
"That day," vs. 22, is judgement day. There are no more opportunities for reconciliation after "Judgement day" and "I never knew you." When Jesus says "never" He means <="never!"=>
 
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fwGod

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I hope this is not too far off topic but I have been addressing this in other threads in this forum.
Exomolgeo occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back).etc”
You quoted and made your response to my post #405 but the matter of 'never wholeheartedly' was already covered in my below post.. (the underlined in particular)
#385 Nov.8 2019 fwGod said:
I did not imply that the wicked would bow or worship at all. I simply used a scripture of a named or unnamed wicked persons who would at some time, on some occasion "feign obedience".
That does not necessarily imply bowing or worshiping God. It merely points out that the wicked will never willfully obey God. Much less bow and worship God. The feign obedience comes from Psalm 81:15 where it also says of them that "they hate the LORD.. their punishment is forever."
And in keeping within context of that previous post of mine I stated in my #392 post that they (feigned obedience) whether they liked it or not, which implies again 'never wholeheartedly'.

But your long list of verses is appreciated to compliment and verify the context of my posts.
 
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Der Alte

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You quoted and made your response to my post #405 but the matter of 'never wholeheartedly' was already covered in my below post.. (the underlined in particular)
And in keeping within context of that previous post of mine I stated in my #392 post that they (feigned obedience) whether they liked it or not, which implies again 'never wholeheartedly'.
But your long list of verses is appreciated to compliment and verify the context of my posts.
I see it a little differently. There will be those who willingly bow and acknowledge Jesus as Lord. But Jesus said there were many who will say Lord, Lord to Him but He will say depart from me I never knew you, they feigned obedience. Then there are those enemies of Jesus who will bow because they are made Jesus' footstool and they will be forced to acknowledge Jesus is Lord just as Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, made his enemies kneel under his feet then he hanged them.
 
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