Using your intellect, mind for God

Daniel Marsh

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In short what I agree with.

Tools like the mind is to be used for God.
The mind means our intellect to me at least.
The attitude of anti-intellectualism is a sin based on denying part of the image of God in us.
I also see anti-intellectualism as being too lazy to think things thru when one is given an argument that refutes their thinking.
Personally, I like looking at those arguments from different angles.
It is ok, not have have an answer to a good argument that I disagree with.

Paul and John in their letters sometimes had to deal with gnosticism which is a false kind of knowledge.

Job 36:4For truly my words are not false; one who is perfect in knowledge is with you.

1 Timothy 6:20[ Personal Instructions and Benediction ] Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid the profane chatter and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge;
 
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nolidad

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Wisdom 9:15for a perishable body weighs down the soul, and this earthy tent burdens the thoughtful mind.

Matthew 22:37He said to him, ‘“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

Jesus separates the soul, heart and mind as three parts.

And the truly intellectual person would insure all three parts are submitted to the absolute authority of the Word of God!

I myself am a graduate of Bible College, trained and board certified as a Christian Counselor, administrator of a bible Institute, have written course curriculum, served on four international missionary junkets, and written numerous articles for newspapers as well as appearing on TV and radio.

So I can fully understand you , will you give your best detailed definition of what you call anti-intellectualism on the part of a Christian.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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And the truly intellectual person would insure all three parts are submitted to the absolute authority of the Word of God!

Would you agree (also or instead) with substituting the "truly spiritual person" (spiritual in Christ, in truth, re-born) in place of "truly intellectual person" ?
 
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nolidad

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Huh??? friend, I think your definitions are somehow off the mark.

I laughed at the texts you quoted because I have heard the same texts quoted by anti-intellectuals.

Proverbs 15:14 The mind of one who has understanding seeks knowledge,

Proverbs 18:15 An intelligent mind acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

Proverbs 18:15An intelligent mind acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

Ecclesiastes 1:16I said to myself, ‘I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.’

Sirach 16:24[ God’s Wisdom Seen in Creation ] Listen to me, my child, and acquire knowledge, and pay close attention to my words.

I agree with all the verses you quote ! Sirach is part of the deuterocanonical books and not even canonized by the Romish church until the Catholic counter reformation. It borrows heavily from proverbs.


What do you call knowledge however?

Do you think that "knowledge" supposedly uncovered that goes against the teachings of Scripture is accurate knowledge or like in Timothy- knowledge falsely so called?
 
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nolidad

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Would you agree (also or instead) with substituting the "truly spiritual person" (spiritual in Christ, in truth, re-born) in place of "truly intellectual person" ?

From a spiritual perspective yes.

But from a "standard viewpoint" there are many "intellectuals"
as defined: "possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, especially to a high degree: an intellectual person."

However when their mental capacity defies the Words of God they have knowledge falsely so called.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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From a spiritual perspective yes.

But from a "standard viewpoint" there are many "intellectuals"
as defined: "possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, especially to a high degree: an intellectual person."

However when their mental capacity defies the Words of God they have knowledge falsely so called.
And as you surely know this, what does God say about worldly, natural wisdom and knowledge among mankind ?
 
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nolidad

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And as you surely know this, what does God say about worldly, natural wisdom and knowledge among mankind ?

Well Corinthians says it is foolishness to God!
And naturak ir worldly wisdom cannot please God!
 
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Daniel Marsh

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And the truly intellectual person would insure all three parts are submitted to the absolute authority of the Word of God!

I myself am a graduate of Bible College, trained and board certified as a Christian Counselor, administrator of a bible Institute, have written course curriculum, served on four international missionary junkets, and written numerous articles for newspapers as well as appearing on TV and radio.

So I can fully understand you , will you give your best detailed definition of what you call anti-intellectualism on the part of a Christian.

I do not remember who said this, "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge" as my starting point.

A dictionary definition:

anti-intellectual
noun
a person opposed to or hostile toward intellectuals and the modern academic, artistic, social, religious, and other theories associated with them.

a person who believes that intellect and reason are less important than actions and emotions in solving practical problems and understanding reality.
Definition of anti-intellectual | Dictionary.com

There are some Christians who have pride in being ignorant on purpose.
They are happy with their exaltation of being super spiritual.
They tend to be over emotional as good and thinking as bad. They choose to view stereotype those in academics and experts as unemotional, and distant from reality.
I think they are just too lazy to think about the arguments of others who are trained before dismissing them or putting them in a pigeon hole.
They will claim that experts are "Living in an ivory tower".
Some Christians have forfeited the intellectual war and claim that things getting worse as the result is a fulfillment of Scripture.

"Anti-intellectualism is an attitude that devalues intellectual pursuits. People displaying this attitude distrust science, art, history and other things"

Interesting books and articles:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2018.1462946
Post-Conference Thoughts on "Anti-Intellectualism" | Society for US Intellectual History
https://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu.../68296/Haas, David.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=osu1250269746&disposition=inline
https://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1995&context=sulr

Out of Our Minds
The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind
Full Gospel, Fractured Minds?
Habits of the Mind: Intellectual Life as a Christian Calling by James W. Sire--- just requested this from the public library.
Jesus Christ and the life of the mind / Mark A. Noll --- just requested this from the public library.
Your Mind matters by John Stout
Habits of the Mind
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Would you agree (also or instead) with substituting the "truly spiritual person" (spiritual in Christ, in truth, re-born) in place of "truly intellectual person" ?

Jesus is in the process of making us a whole person, not just one sided or half a person.

God has to be an intellectual to create the universes.

Genesis 1:27 So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Wisdom 2
Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray,
for their wickedness blinded them,
22 and they did not know the secret purposes of God,
nor hoped for the wages of holiness,
nor discerned the prize for blameless souls;
23 for God created us for incorruption,
and made us in the image of his own eternity,
24 but through the devil’s envy death entered the world,
and those who belong to his company experience it.

Sirach 17 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
17 The Lord created human beings out of earth,
and makes them return to it again.
2 He gave them a fixed number of days,
but granted them authority over everything on the earth.[a]
3 He endowed them with strength like his own,
and made them in his own image.

Romans 8:29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family.

Colossians 3:10and have clothed yourselves with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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And as you surely know this, what does God say about worldly, natural wisdom and knowledge among mankind ?


Since God has written things on people's hearts, some of the things they come up with is common sense and extractions from what God put on our hearts.

Science was started by Christians and as such we can learn many things from science. I think the triple point of water is a good illustration of the Trinity.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Well Corinthians says it is foolishness to God!
And naturak ir worldly wisdom cannot please God!


Please define worldly wisdom.

Romans 1:21-23
For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

James 3
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good life that your works are done with gentleness born of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not be boastful and false to the truth. 15 Such wisdom does not come down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, devilish. 16 For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace for[f] those who make peace.

Proverbs 15:21-26 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
21 Doing foolish things makes a fool happy, but a wise person is careful to do what is right.

22 If you don’t ask for advice, your plans will fail. With many advisors, they will succeed.

23 People are happy when they give a good answer. And there is nothing better than the right word at the right time.

24 What wise people do leads to life here on earth[a] and stops them from going down to the place of death.

25 The Lord destroys a proud man’s house but protects a widow’s property.

26 The Lord hates evil thoughts, but he is pleased with kind words.
 
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AACJ

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Those who believes we should put our intellect on a shelf at the door of the church are not allowed to quote the Bible in English. Bible translations are from people's intellect, mind.

Mark 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
You make a good point. A good Bible translation is the work of both the Holy Spirit and the use of the human faculty of reason. This demonstrates that human reason is not inherently at odds nor in tension with divine direction/revelation pertaining to the work of creating an accurate Bible translation, which has certain implications for fideism. However, such an example might have limited use considering what fideists argue for.

Is this your own idea or do you have a reference you can share?

Also, you are probably generalizing, but a good Bible is of course not primarily or only derived from human intellect and Mind, no more than the Ten Commandments written by Moses was (under the direction/influence of God), although the use of reason was required. In other words, an accurate Bible translation cannot possibly be the sole product of man considering the spirituall nature of God's written Word.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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daily I ask God for wisdom.

From Bible Translators I know, they dailly also ask for his guidence and wisdom.

"Fideism is the idea that religious faith and reason are incompatible with each other. It is the view that religious faith is separate from reason and cannot be reconciled with it. According to fideism, faith involves a degree of absolute certainty and personal commitment that goes beyond what can be rationally justified. Therefore, one cannot and should not seek evidence for religious belief.

A Christian who embraces the philosophy of fideism would say that the rational and scientific arguments for God are irrelevant because the essence of true Christianity is that people are saved by faith alone. Man’s rational abilities have been corrupted by sin and are untrustworthy, and the truths taught in Scripture must be believed even if they cannot be supported through logic or reason." What is Fideism? | GotQuestions.org

The part of Man's thinking and wisdom God detests is that which defends false gods. A great example of that would be the false revelations and teachings of Mohammad, Joseph Smith and LDS Prophets, Teachings of the Watchtower, Mary Baker Eddy, The filmors, and others.

Question: "What is wisdom? What is the difference between wisdom and knowledge?"

Answer: Wisdom and knowledge, both recurring themes in the Bible, are related but not synonymous. The dictionary defines wisdom as “the ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting.” Knowledge, on the other hand, is “information gained through experience, reasoning, or acquaintance.” Knowledge can exist without wisdom, but not the other way around. One can be knowledgeable without being wise. Knowledge is knowing how to use a gun; wisdom is knowing when to use it and when to keep it holstered. What is wisdom? What is the difference between wisdom and knowledge? | GotQuestions.org

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Geisler articulated this contradiction:

[E]ither a fideist offers a justification for his belief or else he does not. If he does not, then as an unjustified belief it has no rightful claim to knowledge (since human knowledge is justified belief). On the other hand, if the fideist offers a justification for his belief—as indeed the whole argument for fideism would seem to be—then he is no longer a fideist, since he has an argument or justification for holding his belief in fideism. In short, either fideism is not a rightful claimant to truth or else it is self-defeating. But in neither case can it be established to be true (1976, pp. 63-64). ...

There is an abundance of scriptural evidence supporting the position that right religion is founded upon the use of reasoning from the natural order. The prophet Isaiah recorded these words: “‘Come now, and let us reason together,’ says the Lord” (Isaiah 1:18, emp. added). The psalmist contended, “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork” (Psalm 19:1). Paul explained this point in greater detail: “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse...” (Romans 1:20). God demands that people use their powers of reasoning to come to know Him (see 2 Thessalonians 1:8).

Jesus upheld the significance of reasoning and intelligent, critical thinking. On one occasion, a Pharisaical lawyer asked Jesus, “‘Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?’ Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind’” (Matthew 22:36-37, emp. added). The mind operates in the realm of rationality. As humans dedicate their minds to the Lord’s service, they will reason concerning the evidence for their convictions. In the Parable of the Sower, Jesus claimed that people must understand the Gospel in order to accept and apply it (Matthew 13:19). We cannot fulfill our responsibility to worship “in truth,” without first analyzing and reasoning about the biblical doctrines related to worship (John 4:24).

Furthermore, Jesus participated in rational argumentation. Hoover noted:

You could never say that Jesus avoided argument. He engaged in skilled disputation with his opponents, confuting them on such matters as paying tribute to Caesar (Mt. 22:21), the authority of John the Baptist (Mt. 21:24), the resurrection and the afterlife (Mt. 12:18-27), and the relation between David and the Messiah (Lk. 20:41-44). Even though Jesus often accused his opponents of intellectual dishonesty (Jn. 9:41), he seldom shunned a discussion with a serious and honest opponent. On one occasion, when he found such an opponent, he said, “You are not far from the kingdom of God” (1975, p. 3-4, parenthetical items in orig.).

Our Lord rejected the notion that faith and reason are mutually exclusive. If we subscribe to fideism, we do so without divine authority (Colossians 3:17).

Peter emphasized the necessity of “giving a reason”: “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15). The fideist would have Christians respond to inquiries concerning the hope that lies within us by saying, “There is no reason. Reason has nothing to do with it. I simply believe it because I have chosen to do so.” In the New Testament, we find numerous accounts of reasoned defenses of the Christian religion (see Acts 2; 4; 7; 22; etc.).

Peter’s admonition to “give a reason” stands alongside other New Testament passages which teach the necessity of a reasoned approach to Christianity: “Test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21, emp. added). “I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say” (1 Corinthians 10:14). “And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment (Philippians 1:9, emp. added). Paul prayed that the Ephesian brethren would have “the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling...” (Ephesians 1:17-18, emp. added).

Reasoning About Fideism
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Are Muslims Fideists?

Special pleading (or claiming that something is an overwhelming exception) is a logical fallacy asking for an exception to a rule to be applied to a specific case, without proper justification of why that case deserves an exemption. Usually this is because in order for an argument to work, a proponent needs to provide some way to get out of a logical inconsistency — in a lot of cases, this will be the fact that the argument contradicts past arguments or actions. Therefore, proponents introduce a "special case" or an exception to their rules. While this is acceptable in genuine special cases, it becomes a fallacy when a person doesn't adequately justify why the case is special.

The fallacy is a conditional fallacy, because special cases do exist; in other cases, the fallacy is circular ad hoc.
Special pleading - RationalWiki
Using your intellect, mind for God
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Complementary apologetics: An attempt for the integration of apologetic schools
The Epistemology of Religion (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
How I Got from Alpha to Omega
For the New Christian Intellectual

"Why is there so much controversy over what Paul means by “knowledge” in Romans 1? Well, the simple answer is that a lot of Christians want to claim that knowledge of God is possible apart from reason. If you can separate knowledge of God from reason, then you can cleanly separate faith and reason––and maybe even diminish the role of reason. This move allows Christians to look down upon thinking too rationally or too philosophically about God;

...

Knowledge always includes discernibility, which means that it always includes reason. You can’t have knowledge apart from reason in regard to anything else in life. And that much is true when it comes to knowledge of God, as well.

...

What Is Knowledge in Romans 1?

short answer, knowledge in Romans 1 is defending or making excuses for their sin of homosexuality.

Romans 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus.

God chose me to be an apostle and gave me the work of telling his Good News. 2 God promised long ago through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures to give this Good News to his people. 3-4 The Good News is about God’s Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. As a human, he was born from the family of David, but through the Holy Spirit[a] he was shown to be God’s powerful Son when he was raised from death.

5 Through Christ, God gave me the special work of an apostle—to lead people of all nations to believe and obey him. I do all this to honor Christ. 6 You are some of those who have been chosen to belong to Jesus Christ.

7 This letter is to all of you in Rome. God loves you, and he has chosen you to be his holy people.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

A Prayer of Thanks
8 First I want to say that I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you. I thank him because people everywhere in the world are talking about your great faith. 9-10 Every time I pray, I always remember you. God knows this is true. He is the one I serve with all my heart by telling people the Good News about his Son. I pray that I will be allowed to come to you. It will happen if God wants it. 11 I want very much to see you and give you some spiritual gift to make your faith stronger. 12 I mean that I want us to help each other with the faith that we have. Your faith will help me, and my faith will help you.

13 Brothers and sisters, I want you to know that I have planned many times to come to you, but something always happens to change my plans. I would like to see the same good result among you that I have had from my work among the other non-Jewish people.

14 I must serve all people—those who share in Greek culture and those who are less civilized, the educated as well as the ignorant. 15 That is why I want so much to tell the Good News to you there in Rome.

16 I am proud of the Good News, because it is the power God uses to save everyone who believes—to save the Jews first, and now to save those who are not Jews. 17 The Good News shows how God makes people right with himself. God’s way of making people right begins and ends with faith. As the Scriptures say, “The one who is right with God by faith will live forever.”[c]

All People Have Done Wrong
18 God shows his anger from heaven against all the evil and wrong things that people do. Their evil lives hide the truth they have. 19 This makes God angry because they have been shown what he is like. Yes, God has made it clear to them.

20 There are things about God that people cannot see—his eternal power and all that makes him God. But since the beginning of the world, those things have been easy for people to understand. They are made clear in what God has made. So people have no excuse for the evil they do.

21 People knew God, but they did not honor him as God, and they did not thank him. Their ideas were all useless. There was not one good thought left in their foolish minds. 22 They said they were wise, but they became fools. 23 Instead of honoring the divine greatness of God, who lives forever, they traded it for the worship of idols—things made to look like humans, who get sick and die, or like birds, animals, and snakes.

24 People wanted only to do evil. So God left them and let them go their sinful way. And so they became completely immoral and used their bodies in shameful ways with each other. 25 They traded the truth of God for a lie. They bowed down and worshiped the things God made instead of worshiping the God who made those things. He is the one who should be praised forever. Amen.

26 Because people did those things, God left them and let them do the shameful things they wanted to do. Women stopped having natural sex with men and started having sex with other women. 27 In the same way, men stopped having natural sex with women and began wanting each other all the time. Men did shameful things with other men, and in their bodies they received the punishment for those wrongs.

28 People did not think it was important to have a true knowledge of God. So God left them and allowed them to have their own worthless thinking. And so they do what they should not do. 29 They are filled with every kind of sin, evil, greed, and hatred. They are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, lying, and thinking the worst things about each other. They gossip 30 and say evil things about each other. They hate God. They are rude, proud, and brag about themselves. They invent ways of doing evil. They don’t obey their parents, 31 they are foolish, they don’t keep their promises, and they show no kindness or mercy to others. 32 They know God’s law says that anyone who lives like that should die. But they not only continue to do these things themselves, but they also encourage others who do them.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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What is more, the “wisdom” of which he speaks is “the wisdom of this world” (v. 20), not the wisdom of God. Paul called a sophist the “disputer of this age” (v. 20). Sophist could argue for argument’s sake. This leads no one to God.
Further, Paul’s reference to the world by wisdom not knowing God is not a reference to the inability of human beings to know God through the evidence He has revealed in creation (Rom. 1:19-20) and conscience (Rom. 2:12-15). Rather, it is a reference to man’s depraved and foolish rejection of the message of the cross.
presuppositional apologetics – NORMAN GEISLER
 
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