Sex, When Is It Right?

endure · Mar 28, 2003

nomad,
as for your story, if i was that man with the lady on the island.
id not sleep with her, becuase we are not married.

you paint an elaborate story purposely for promoting your personal belief, whatever God comes to them and teaches them, not any of that would second guess the fact that fornication is a sin.
i would not sleep with her, let us be rescued from the island, well find a church and have a wedding and a honeymoon (did i spell that right?)

it really doesnt surprise me that you look upon anyone who disagrees with your liberality as a pharisee.
and be careful, your far too confident in yourself, and far too lacking in scripture.
may i remind you that the pharisees attacked Jesus not simply for his liberality, but becuase he was very narrow minded, he condemned anything except himself, the pharisees hated this and condemned them, he was not as open minded as you think.
dont raise Jesus' doctrine of salvation by grace and faith as the back drop for your liberality teaching that denies the clearly spoken words of God.

the biggest problem i have with your teaching is that you make the bible into a meaningless texturless thing, so that it is all inclusive and anything goes. you say it can be interpreted many ways, i agree that it may come to many truthes, but i dont agree it can be interpreted many ways and those truthes never contradict.
you cannot deny that the bible clearly states FORNICATORS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and you cannot say you interpret it a diffrent way becuase there is no feasable alternative interpretation, if it could mean anything else than that would be ok, but it cant.
i dont care what stories and questions you can raise, whatever consequenses it brings, it doesnt matter, if you commit fornication which is sleeping with a person other than your wife or husband, you are sinning, and this is a sin that will destroy the soul.

we are going to a be married to Christ in heavon, God is all about weddings.
yes i do say for you to be properly married, you need a wedding.

OracleX · Mar 28, 2003

you cannot deny that the bible clearly states FORNICATORS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD ... and this is a sin that will destroy the soul.

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

This is where you are getting your 'fornicatiors shall not inherit the kingdom of God.' Did you ever notice what else is stated there? This is not a passage of scripture that says that if you do any of these things you are done. If you look in the NASB version it gives a clearer understanding, "that those who practice such things will not inherit." It doesn't say anyone who does these things will not inherit. Although anyone who does practice these things, or continues to live in these things, is exhibiting a lifestyle that shows an unsaved condition.

To take it as anyone who has commited fornication is going to hell would go against so much other scripture. Also to take it this way is saying that Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings are a unpardonable sins. I am sure that is not what you are meaning. Gods grace and forgiveness will cover the sins of someone who has commited fornication, if they are part of the family of God. But as someone who is part of the family of God, they should do everything possible to stop and get out of that situation.

I am not disagreeing with you endure, just trying to clearify what I think you are trying to say.

nomad · Mar 28, 2003

It is not right to falsely accuse someone of being this or that.  I will simply say you are wrong about what you say of me.  If you knew me you would know that what I say is the truth.  You do not know me and I can see this by what you say against me.  I can also say you don't know the truth but it is obvious to me that whatever I say you will twist it and misinterpret it to prove your points.  I am not here to prove anything or to get into debates.  What I know is.  What I know does not come by any other source then that of the Holy Spirit.  It is promised to us that He will lead us into the truth, we do not need anyone to teach us for He himself will.  I know this to be true it is not a belief.  Since I know that what I say is the truth I do not have to spend time in debates because I know that anyone listening to the Holy Spirit will confirm that what I say is the truth.  I give what I have learned so that they who read my words will be set free.

There are many recorded accounts of people who did not understand Jesus and what He said including His disciples.  Before responding to this post I was reading where Jesus was being tried before His crucifixion.  Jesus had made a statement "I am able to destroy the Temple of God and rebuild it in three days."  Those whose stood against Him didn't have a clue what He meant.  So it was then so it is today.

My confidence comes from knowing the truth which I recieved though Gods Holy Spirit.  It is upon this truth I stand that gives to me the strength to withstand the attack of powers and principalities of darkness.  It is also with this truth I can stand against those who through ignorance, stubborness, pride, jeolousy, arrogance and a multitude of other actions that stem from sin that I can love them still but hate their sin.  It is with kindness, patience, joy and the positive fruits that come from good intent and motivation that I post this and others.  If I am wrong about something I will recieve it.  I will know who is behind it and what there intent and motivation is.  If you call me a liar you call God a liar.  I do not find this acceptable and will ask you to stop.  I have read your posts and can see how it is you think.  I can see alot of assumption but I haven't seen any questions as to what I wrote, only an attack of what I wrote.  Those of you who have accused me wrongly are like the first man in my example.  You just do what you think without asking what it is I am after or what it is I want.  There is no love in this.  It does not come from God.  In my stories I was not in my mind linking anybody in paticular.  I was off in the spirit enjoying what God was sharing with me while I was writing.  However if the shoe fits wear it.

Back to our topic of when is Sex right?

Genesis 2:24-25 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

In the beginning God performed the first marriage.  Since God doesn't change then what He did then can be done today in my Island Story.  It wouldn't be fornication.  If I was the man I would take this woman to be my wife.  Later if we did get off the Island we could have a wedding ceremony to reafirm our commitments to one another and to prevent creating a stumbling block in those who are weak in faith and understanding.  We would remain out of the Church for a time knowing we would be exiled for what we know.

Seek and you shall find.  You will find what you are searching for wether it be good or bad.  If all you are looking for is sin then that is what you will find.  If you are looking for Jesus then that is what you will find.  What is it you look for in me?  I'll tell you that your intent is not to Glorify God but to Glorify yourselves and your own understanding of the truth.  If this were not so you would not have said so yourselves.  You say that what I say is a lie yet you yourselves are the liers.  If you say this is not so then you say you sin not.  The Bible says we are all sinners even after we are born again.  So it is as you say I am a lier but I speak the truth.  How is it you discern the truth?  Will you lie to yourself and say that you do this with God?  If you would have asked God what the truth is He would have told you but I doubt you would have listened.  You don't listen to me, how could you possibly listen to Him who sent me here.

Proverbs 5:15 Drink water from your own wellshare your love only with your wife.£ 16Why spill the water of your springs in public, having sex with just anyone?£ 17You should reserve it for yourselves. Dont share it with strangers.

This is a good definition of fornication.  It also defines adultry. 

I will leave you with this for this is my last post.  I know of your deeds and I can tell you God is not happy about it.  You will not recieve the truth and prevent others from recieving it also.  You will be held responsible for this.  You know who you are and I will leave you in your sin.  The private word that I sent will be fullfilled.

OracleX · Mar 29, 2003

It is not right to falsely accuse someone of being this or that. I will simply say you are wrong about what you say of me. If you knew me you would know that what I say is the truth.

You are right in that I don't 'know' Nomad, just as you don't know who OracleX is. Because of that (and not only because of that) we weigh what is said by the Word of God as it is what has been given to us to live by.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

So when you say something (or anyone else) that I am not sure of, I go to the Bible to find the answer. Even if I 'knew' you I would still verify what you say against the Bible. That is what it is there for. It is one of the things that God has left us to know how to live. When one makes claims to be a prophet and claim that their words are the words of God. That does require some Biblical backing which you have failed to give.

You also make claims that you only need one source, the Holy Spirit. In doing so you turn down the only weapon in which God has given to us. Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" You say that your truth is revealed through the Holy Spirit, and yet the truth that you speak does not co-incied with the Truth spoken by God through the Bible.

If you call me a liar you call God a liar. I do not find this acceptable and will ask you to stop. I have read your posts and can see how it is you think. I can see alot of assumption but I haven't seen any questions as to what I wrote, only an attack of what I wrote.

Not once have I called you a liar. As for not seeing any questions? I have questioned you many many times. I have asked you for Biblical proof to what you claim. The few scriptures you have quoted you have taken just parts of a verse to try and back up what you are saying. In doing so you have failed to notice the context of the verse and failed to see that it is not backing up your claims. I have questioned you many times.

One thing that I find really interesting is that you have been very quick to judge anyone who questions (or as you say attacks you) or even anyone who questions someone who you agree with or agrees with you. You are also quick to call down the wrath of God on any one who does not agree with your claims or what you say or any one who you agree with or agrees with you. Theses things you have been very quick to do. You are very quick to judge others and yet anyone who questions you is considered judging you. For someone who is quick to judge you also strongly dislike anyone who you see that judges you. You have made it perfectly clear infact that others are not to judge you. Again I question you on your Biblical backing for this.

What this all boils down to Nomad is your lack of Biblical backing to what you say and claim. Getting you to quote scripture has been like pull teeth and something that you do not feel is necessary. You comments and statement say that you don't need the Bible as you have the Holy Spirit and your words should be enough. Well for a Christian who lives by the Word of God, it isn't enough. If you can't back up your claims with scripture then how do you expect one to accept them?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Luke 4:4 "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

Psalms 119:4-11 "Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments. I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments. I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly. BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

BT · Mar 29, 2003

I wonder Nomad do you even know what a Pharisee is? You have been given two excellent posts by OracleX and Endure. Will you hear the Word of God or will you continue in your error? Two people are warning you about your false teaching and your misuse of scripture. Clear and precise evidence is presented on your twisting and misinterpretation. Will you now repent? I hope so.

F.Y.I. - No one on these boards is a Pharisee. Grab a Bible dictionary and you'll see what I mean.

Memory's Flame · Mar 29, 2003

<TABLE height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
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<TD vAlign=top>I wonder Nomad do you even know what a Pharisee is? You have been given two excellent posts by OracleX and Endure. Will you hear the Word of God or will you continue in your error? Two people are warning you about your false teaching and your misuse of scripture. Clear and precise evidence is presented on your twisting and misinterpretation. Will you now repent? I hope so.

Wow! So quick to be judgemental, so quick to condemn. I am really disappointed by some of the things I have read now.

Nomad, follow what God is telling you, I know you know that! For God speaks to you for a reason, so what you know in your heart that he says to do, is what you shall do.

I found your island story very wonderful! And is exactly what many Christians I know would do. I asked my mom and my grandma and my sister last night and they all said they would do what you did!

(((HUGZ)))</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

reeann · Mar 30, 2003

Well, God's word definitely says sex is okay within the sanctity of husband and wife (marriage). Also, it warns of lust, and in Matthew, lusting in your mind is just as bad as doing it. The Bible also teaches you to be submitted to the laws of the government as long as they do not go against God.

BUT, besides the point.

Jacque (sorry if i spelled your name wrong). Look, i think you and your boyfriend are very committed to each other. Why not save the joy of a sexual relationship as a gift to each for your marriage. Its a lovely way to start your marriage, a sealing of the cermony reflecting your hearts of committment.

If your committed for life, why not wait until ceremony

you'll have a lifetime of love after that.

just another point of view, blessing to you all.

love,

reeann

endure · Mar 30, 2003

JacqueB
if you want too see someone that is condemning and is quick to judge people as sinners, look at your friend nomad.
i can recall no one giving such an ending to his writings as he just did.
according to him i am a liar, sinner, pharisee and will one day be greatly punished for my evil deeds. no one else has gotten close to this kind of proclamation.  yet he says we are quick to call people sinners and are pharisees for not being so openminded, and not just accepting him, yet he makes such harsh accusations toward us and even sets a harsh fate on us....

please, i dont hate you, i dont want you to be found in sin, im not trying to prove your sinning, im really not.
just answer me one question.
what does "no fornicator shall inherit the kingdom of God" mean to you?
go ahead, take your island story and glory in it.
if i were you id work my salvation with fear and trembling, this is to serious, the bible clearly says sleeping with someone you are not married to is a sin that will keep you from heavon. id get away from the island story if i were you, and not take any chance of breaking the word of God.

nomad.
you say you know God, you say you are lead of the spirit, well....so do mormons and every other so called Jesus based false teaching under the sun, you better have more than that as evidence.
you have a great confidence in your own teachings, but this i dont mind, but it is simply strange how you have so little bible to back your so called bible truths.
you gave a scripture from adam's time that in no way applies to you, since sin wasnt in the earth yet, and since there was no need for a ritual of marriage since there were no one to cheat with and since God saw it fit since there was no pastor around to marry them. to say that since God considered it ok for them its ok for you. those conditions dont apply to you.

Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman, she had been with 5 men, and the man she was with presently WAS NOT her husband.
love, commitment, good intentions, do not marry you. a wedding marries you.
no God does not change, but yes God has continually changed the way he deals with man, from the old covenant, to the new covenant, and he himself once said "i will do a new thing".
you cant say God doesnt change, to prove that what God once allowed he will always allow.

i am reminded of the words of paul in titus 1.16
"they profess that they know God, but in works they deny him..."

i dont care what you say about your relationship between you and God, that means nothing to me, not when you teach that a person can have sex with someone they are not married too, becuase the bible says fornication is a sin.

and why did you bring up that you can commit fornication once and be ok if forgiven? when you spoke of my so called in-accuracy of
1 cor 6?
that really doesnt mean anything, the bible says 1 cor 6.18 that he who commits fornication sinneth....
doing it once is a sin.

and dont think for a moment that you have any reason to say im being selfish and not seeking the lords glory, simply becuase im teaching something that isnt seeker sensitive.
paul gives the reasons to preach the word, REPROVE, EXHORT, REBUKE.
you cant only exhort people, God isnt here to make people happy, hes here to make Godly people, and that takes chastening.
if you take the rebuking out of scripture you lose much of its purpose.
if you hold your tongue and withhold the truth, simply to make someone comfortable, then you have cursed them, not helped them. becuase the word only does one thing, which is give us power to become the sons of God, and paul said through the word we could become perfect unto every good work, and he commanded timothy this...PREACH THE WORD!

you say i am in sin,
but the only possible motive you could have is simply to say that we are being judgmental and inconsiderate by your own opinion, you have no real law of the bible that we have broken. and even if this island story were true, do you live on and island? does she live on an island? its to far out of context to mean anything to this discussion.
you are trying too hard to justify her wrongs.

this is the second time you said you have made your last post.
well, it appears to me that you are the one seeking your own image being lifted up, or else you could stay true to your word.
why did you return? if not to try and salvage your reputation?
people leave while the gettings good dont they?
and if you had a just reason to return, why did you profess to leave in the first place?

OracleX · Mar 30, 2003

Wow! So quick to be judgemental, so quick to condemn. I am really disappointed by some of the things I have read now.

This has not been quick by any means. Many weeks have been put in here trying to show Nomad that what he has said and done is wrong. Many appeals to reason have been made. Many times have questions been asked. Many times have opertunites been given. Many times has the Word been given. Many times have prayers been said.

This has not been a quick thing. This have been a very patient and loving appeal to a brother who is confused.

nomad · Apr 5, 2003

BT,

I wonder Nomad do you even know what a Pharisee is? You have been given two excellent posts by OracleX and Endure. Will you hear the Word of God or will you continue in your error? Two people are warning you about your false teaching and your misuse of scripture. Clear and precise evidence is presented on your twisting and misinterpretation. Will you now repent? I hope so.

You also judged yourself.  You twisted and perverted so many scriptures yourself that I don't know where to begin.  For starters you need to read what I posted to endure.  The same applies to you.

There are certain procedures to follow to determine wether someone is a false prophet or a false teacher.  You didn't apply it or you don't know the procedures.  Your questions say alot about what you know and so does your statements.

 

2 Samuel 1:14 Were you not afraid to kill the Lord's anointed one?" David asked.

If you knew as much as you pretend to know you would have been more cautious in your judgement.  I expect you to find out from the Lord what I mean by pointing this scripture out to you.  I would also suggest you read the entire book.

I will expect a public apology from you since you slandered me publicly.  I expect you to make things right with the Lord by keeping your own doorstep clean before trying to clean up someone elses.  I have much against you as well.

Matthew 5:23 So if you are standing before the altar in the Temple, offering a sacrifice to God, and you suddenly remember that someone has something against you, 24leave your sacrifice there beside the altar. Go and be reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to God.

nomad · Apr 5, 2003

OracleX

You quote scripture but only believe what you understand.  You also have judged yourself.  You've quoted a lot of scripture which I am very familiar with.

You said you didn't call me a liar.  You did when you said the Holy Spirit doesn't write through me.  You also called me a liar and God when you publicly dismissed a prophecy I wrote under His direct supervision.  They were not my words.  They were the words of the Holy Spirit through me.

 

I am in him who writes these words speak not against the Holy Spirit of the Living God lest I come and crush your arrogance to pieces.

These words were within the prophecy.  The Holy Spirit is Himself making it clear to the reader not to blaspheme Him.  You did and you did so publicly.  I got you off the hook through ignorance.  I would strongly urge you to find out about gifts of the Holy Spirit.  When you say they are not or no longer exist you are calling God a Liar.  Call around and find a Church that practice these gifts and experience them for yourself.  Many people including those on this forum utilize the special abilites of the Holy Spirit.  Don't endanger yourself by pride or arrogance with this issue it is to dangerous.  I wasn't always familiar with them either.

12:32 Anyone who blasphemes against me, the Son of Man, can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

This isn't a debate this is a rebuke and correction to you.  I would take what I am saying here very, very seriously.

What I wrote to endure applies to you as well.  I have studied many years with the direct instruction of the Lord and for someone to scoff at me only tells me they don't know much themselves.  It is disrespectful as well as annoying.  You deal with this issue of speaking against God the way you have.

Matthew 5:23 So if you are standing before the altar in the Temple, offering a sacrifice to God, and you suddenly remember that someone has something against you, 24leave your sacrifice there beside the altar. Go and be reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to God.

MichaelFJF · Apr 5, 2003

Morning, noon, noon again, night. What was the question again?M

nomad · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 07:55 AM MichaelFJF said this in Post #53

Morning, noon, noon again, night. What was the question again?M

  

Going back to the beginning it should have been "what is the Truth?"  If you know the truth then you know when Sex is right.

Sex is like a gun.  It can give life and it can take it away.  Both are good if they are handled correctly.

OracleX · Apr 5, 2003

Galatians 5:22-26 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."

Nomad, your posts are filled with contradictions. 'Do not judge me' and yet you judge everyone else. 'Do not judge anyone I like' and yet you judge everyone. I believe there is a saying about that that goes like 'You can dish it but you can't take it.'

The reason quoted the passage above is because for one who claims to be a prophet of God and share His judgement throne, you do not show the fruits of the Spirit. There is not love in your posts, just judgement. You are really bent on raising yourself as a prophet and yet everytime you try and do so you deny the very things that a prophet is to be like. Your posts are vengeful and spiteful.

Blynn · Apr 5, 2003

Due to the personal attacks this thread is closed.

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