I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

DennisTate · Dec 11, 2019

Tyme said:
So Why would God give the "Spiritual Gift of Healing"? If Anyone can lay hands on someone and pray for a healing (and I agree completely), what importance would someone receiving the gift of healing be?

1 Corinthians 12 verse 7-11

In the case of Smith Wigglesworth it could be said that he was eventually given the gift of extraordinary faith but there was more to it...... apparently he could see some of what was going on in the invisible realms .... could see a demon of cancer...... and when he kicked that demon of cancer out the cancer was healed.

Tyme · Dec 11, 2019

topher694 said:
Cool to hear those things are alive and active in your church!

Quick answer to your original question: there are 3 realms of the supernatural: Faith, anointing and glory. Faith healing can be individual or in agreement with others, the gifts of healings flows from the anointing (God's empowering) of believers, and the glory is where God goes beyond our faith and anointing and does it on His own.

PS ignore Dave, he says the same exact things every single time anything close this topic comes up and, let's just say, it's just not worth wasting your time on it (imo).

Thank you topher!!
That pretty much explained it and sums it all up! I appreciate you taking your time to answer!

P.S
Thanks for the heads up, I was nervous coming to these forums after seeing what he had to say but hearing from the rest of you all -- all I can say is there always has to be someone that makes the rest look bad.

Al Touthentop · Dec 11, 2019

Tyme said:
So Why would God give the "Spiritual Gift of Healing"? If Anyone can lay hands on someone and pray for a healing (and I agree completely), what importance would someone receiving the gift of healing be?

1 Corinthians 12 verse 7-11

The purpose of any spiritual gift was to confirm the word of God. It was to prove that the person speaking truly was from God and that his words came from God.

Al Touthentop · Dec 11, 2019

Ahermit said:
Truth restores and heals.
Faith allows truth to restore and heal.

If the person who wants to be healed has faith in being healed, allows truth to heal them, regardless whether the truth comes through themselves or through the healer. If the person lacks faith, then they resist any truth and the healing.

I would think that Lazarus contradicts this notion. Lazarus was raised despite his faith or lack thereof.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

Tyme said:
Hello all -- Praise Jesus, amen.

I'm not sure if I'm in the right section of these forums...

I'll get straight to the question...
Can someone help me to understand what the difference is between someone having the spiritual gift of healing as oppose to someone just laying hands on, and praying for healing upon another in the name of Jesus?
I hope that makes sense...

It might be most evident if someone believes they can heal someone,
as if it is not Jesus healing them.
As if someone has a so-called "gift", that is separate or unique or a part that is separate and not in full union with Jesus.

Whenever and wherever Jesus went, He healed people.
Likewise whenever He sent out permanent disciples for the message of His Kingdom, and gave them authority to heal, they healed people just as if He was with them, and He was "with them", or His authority / the Father's authority to heal was with them.

Today, wherever Jesus goes, He heals people. He has not changed. In some places/ towns/ cities/ groups,
He does not do many miracles or healings, because of so much unbelief, same as recorded in Scripture.
Study Bible
The Rejection at Nazareth
…4Then Jesus told them, “A prophet is without honor only in his hometown, among his relatives, and in his own household.” 5So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them. 6And He was amazed at their unbelief. And He went around from village to village, teaching the people.…Berean Study Bible

Ahermit · Dec 11, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
I would think that Lazarus contradicts this notion. Lazarus was raised despite his faith or lack thereof.

Lazarus was dead. It was through Jesus faith in the Father.
John 11:41-42 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."

Radagast · Dec 11, 2019

Tyme said:
Can someone help me to understand what the difference is between someone having the spiritual gift of healing as oppose to someone just laying hands on, and praying for healing upon another in the name of Jesus?

Anyone can lay their hands upon somebody and pray for healing upon them in the name of Jesus. Even Cessationists agree on that.

Continuationists believe that the "spiritual gift of healing" is a continuation of what the Apostles did. It's a spiritual gift that not everybody has, going beyond simply praying. @Dave G. called it the ability to "command" healing (as in Acts 9:34, where Peter says “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed”).

Al Touthentop · Dec 11, 2019

Ahermit said:
Lazarus was dead. It was through Jesus faith in the Father.
John 11:41-42 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."

I think we agree that Lazarus was dead. Thus his faith had nothing to do with his resurrection.

Healing was never meted out based on how faithful the person who was sick or who attended the sick. Many had belief that Jesus could heal them, but this wasn't the determination of whether or not they would receive a healing.

"I believe! Help me with my unbelief!"

In fact in a couple of instances, we read of people who only truly believed after they got home and found out that a person was healed from a distance and at the time they were talking to Jesus. The person healed had no idea what was going on. Peter's mother in law wasn't first queried whether or not she had enough faith, Jesus touched her and she was healed.

This narrative, that the reason people aren't healed today because they don't have enough faith, is typically used as an excuse when the person attempting the miracle fails. It doesn't comport with the scriptures. Healing was to confirm the speaker and the word spoken was from God.

Ahermit · Dec 11, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
I think we agree that Lazarus was dead. Thus his faith had nothing to do with his resurrection.

Healing was never meted out based on how faithful the person who was sick or who attended the sick. Many had belief that Jesus could heal them, but this wasn't the determination of whether or not they would receive a healing.

"I believe! Help me with my unbelief!"

In fact in a couple of instances, we read of people who only truly believed after they got home and found out that a person was healed from a distance and at the time they were talking to Jesus. The person healed had no idea what was going on. Peter's mother in law wasn't first queried whether or not she had enough faith, Jesus touched her and she was healed.

This narrative, that the reason people aren't healed today because they don't have enough faith, is typically used as an excuse when the person attempting the miracle fails. It doesn't comport with the scriptures. Healing was to confirm the speaker and the word spoken was from God.

Matthew 9:20-22 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, "If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed." 22 Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed at that moment.

Al Touthentop · Dec 11, 2019

Ahermit said:
Matthew 9:20-22 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, "If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed." 22 Jesus turned and saw her. "Take heart, daughter," he said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was healed at that moment.

Which is no proof that one is required to have faith before they can receive physical healing by a person who has that gift. Because, we read of people who couldn't have had faith and still received healing. Like I said, this is today's excuse by those claiming to have the gift of healing. There was never an issue of somebody having "enough" faith. If you showed up thinking that Jesus could heal you and he did, it was not your faith that mattered as much as his power. The showing up was enough faith. That's what it is talking about

Today, plenty of people show up believing that the pastor can heal them. When he fails to heal them, the one coming is typically blamed for his lack of faith.

"So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them"

Because they didn't come. It says he in fact did heal a few. So it wasn't that his power was tied to whether or not their own faith was strong enough, a silly idea when you think about it, but in their refusal to come. Those few that came were healed.

topher694 · Dec 11, 2019

I wonder if the gifts are not for today crowd could just let it go for this thread. It seems to me that really isn't the context of the question or conversation... Oh, wait silly me, what was I thinking? None of that matters.

Radagast · Dec 11, 2019

topher694 said:
I wonder if the gifts are not for today crowd could just let it go for this thread. It seems to me that really isn't the context of the question or conversation.

That's exactly the context.

Since the "gifts are not for today crowd" agree with "praying for a healing" but not with "the spiritual gift of healing," that tells you where the difference lies.

topher694 · Dec 11, 2019

Radagast said:
That's exactly the context.

Since the "gifts are not for today crowd" agree with "praying for a healing" but not with "the spiritual gift of healing," that tells you where the difference lies.

No it's not. The OP was asking about the difference between the two, not whether they are still active today or not. He clearly stated he was attending a church that still flowed in the gifts and he seems to like it. There's no need to push the ceasing issue.

Radagast · Dec 11, 2019

topher694 said:
No it's not.

Sigh.

You didn't understand me at all. Let me say that again:

Since the "gifts are not for today crowd" agree with "praying for a healing" but not with "the spiritual gift of healing," that tells you where the difference lies.

To repeat my other post, in the Continuationist view, the "spiritual gift of healing" is a continuation of what the Apostles did. It's a spiritual gift that not everybody has, going beyond simply praying (because simply praying is something that even Cessationists do). @Dave G. called that gift the ability to "command" healing (as in Acts 9:34, where Peter says “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed”).

topher694 · Dec 11, 2019

Radagast said:
Sigh. You didn't understand me at all. Let me say that again:

Since the "gifts are not for today crowd" agree with "praying for a healing" but not with "the spiritual gift of healing," that tells you where the difference lies.

To repeat my other post, in the Continuationist view, the "spiritual gift of healing" is a continuation of what the Apostles did. It's a spiritual gift that not everybody has, going beyond simply praying (because simply praying is something that even Cessationists do). @Dave G. called that gift the ability to "command" healing (as in Acts 9:34, where Peter says “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed”).

I understood you just fine.

Radagast · Dec 12, 2019

topher694 said:
I understood you just fine.

Obviously not.

Ahermit · Dec 12, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
Which is no proof that one is required to have faith before they can receive physical healing by a person who has that gift. Because, we read of people who couldn't have had faith and still received healing. Like I said, this is today's excuse by those claiming to have the gift of healing. There was never an issue of somebody having "enough" faith. If you showed up thinking that Jesus could heal you and he did, it was not your faith that mattered as much as his power. The showing up was enough faith. That's what it is talking about

Today, plenty of people show up believing that the pastor can heal them. When he fails to heal them, the one coming is typically blamed for his lack of faith.

"So He could not perform any miracles there, except to lay His hands on a few of the sick and heal them"

Because they didn't come. It says he in fact did heal a few. So it wasn't that his power was tied to whether or not their own faith was strong enough, a silly idea when you think about it, but in their refusal to come. Those few that came were healed.

How do you know if a persons faith is unconditional or not? Only God knows what is truly in their heart.

gogprechear · Dec 12, 2019

Tyme said:
Hello all -- Praise Jesus, amen.

I'm not sure if I'm in the right section of these forums...

I'll get straight to the question...
Can someone help me to understand what the difference is between someone having the spiritual gift of healing as oppose to someone just laying hands on, and praying for healing upon another in the name of Jesus?
I hope that makes sense...

To answer your question first I have to say you have said it all yes it called the gift healing, it's a gift not everyone has it but everyone that desires it can have it if he asked from God ready to pay the price of it. But In Some cases the one that does not have the gift can lay hand if led by the spirit of God where there are no available prophets the servant of a prophet can with faith put into action what he sees his master doing always and God is his faithfulness can honor himself just to glorify himself among the pegans . So in conclusion God can use the gifted and the ungifted to his own glory

topher694 · Dec 12, 2019

Radagast said:
Obviously not.

Obviously you think know my thoughts better than I do.

Al Touthentop · Dec 12, 2019

Ahermit said:
How do you know if a persons faith is unconditional or not? Only God knows what is truly in their heart.

I don't. Of course, only God knows. I was speaking to what we can read. As to modern day healers, none that I have seen can even approach the kind of healing written about in the scriptures. That isn't the fault of those who come for healing.

I have a question I can't seem to find an answer to.

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