The Truth about our Future

keras · Dec 7, 2019

Lost4words said:
Keras, my friend. You greatly misinterpret scripture.

God bless you

May God bless you with a right understanding of His Prophetic Word.

Lost4words · Dec 7, 2019

keras said:
May God bless you with a right understanding of His Prophetic Word.

You too my friend

Deade · Dec 7, 2019

keras said:
This scripture certainly applies to us Christians.

I would change my designation if I knew how to do it. Just Christian would be better.

Revelation 20:4-5 is quite specific: ONLY the Tribulation martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus Return. The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
Receiving our rewards, is another matter. Matthew 16:27

We are in the Church age now. The Millennium is exactly 1000 years and will commence at Jesus' Return.

Your interpretation of Rev.20:4-5 is called assumption by exclusion. You are assuming that beheaded martyrs are the only ones resurrected and reign with Christ 1000 years because they are specified. Let us address the scriptures that I listed that give a timeline for all other saved individuals.

1 Cor. 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

1 Thess. 2:19 "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

1 Jhn. 2:28 "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

Now for some more:

Heb. 11:40 "God for us something better having provided, that apart from us they might not be made perfect."

1 Cor. 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

(YLT) 1 Thess. 4:13-18 "And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope, for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him, for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living—who do remain over to the presence of the Lord—may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; so, then, comfort ye one another in these words."

keras · Dec 7, 2019

keras said:
We know that the only Christians who will be resurrected when Jesus returns, are the martyrs of the Great Tribulation. Revelation 20:4 cannot be clearer.

I stand by the plain text of Rev 20:4.
To add other people, living or dead, is a violation of Revelation 22:18.

Your scriptures above, Deade, are Promises for us that will be realized after the Millennium. Excepting 1 Thess 4:13-18, which refers to Jesus' Return and is not a removal to heaven, but just a transportation to where Jesus is; in the clouds, then in Jerusalem.

Douggg · Dec 8, 2019

keras said:
I would change my designation if I knew how to do it. Just Christian would be better.

At the top of this page, on the turquoise header line, mouse over your name (next to inbox). A pull down menu will appear. Click on personal details. That's where you can make the change. Somewhere in that list (like Region or City), is Pentecostal. That's where you edit.

The line item "Custom Title" you can also put information that will appear below your screen-name. Perhaps you should add like I have - futurist.

claninja · Dec 8, 2019

keras said:
Obviously, clainjia, you just cannot understand plain Words of prophecy.
Scripture does tell us this will happen to those who want to believe false teachings.

Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak? To whom give warning, who will hear me? The peoples ears are blocked, they are incapable of listening, they treat the Lord’s Word as a reproach.

Isaiah 29:10-14 For you the whole vision is nothing but words in a sealed book.

Isaiah 6:9b-10 However hard you look and listen, you will never perceive.

Isaiah 48:8 You don’t understand, because your ears were stopped long ago.

Psalms 94:5 Understand, O dullest of people; when will you be wise?

Deuteronomy 32:28-29 My people are a nation devoid of understanding. If only they had the wisdom to discern what their end will be!

Daniel 12:9-10 None of the wicked will understand, only the wise leaders of My people.

Amos 8:11-13 People will search for the truth, but will not find it.

Isaiah 48:6 You have heard what I have said, consider it well, it is the truth. From now on I show you new things, hidden things, that you did not know before.

Matthew 11:25 Father, You have hidden Your secrets from the learned and revealed them to the simple. [The learned: those who promote theories and unbiblical fables. The simple; those who carefully study the Word and discern the truths found there.]

Maybe address my content and show where and how I am wrong specifically, while at the same time using scripture to support your position, such that x+y=z. This will show us if your interpretations are proper. Otherwise it seems like you are just deflecting, as you cannot actually answer the questions posed to you.

Do you believe the earthly picture of being born again that Jesus used means literally coming out of your mothers womb again, or does it point to a spiritual truth?

keras · Dec 8, 2019

Thanks, Douggg

Claninja; we have had many discussions, without any consensus between us.
Your post above is just another example of your intransigence and your rejection of any possible fulfilment of the Prophesies in the near future.
Have a good end times!

claninja · Dec 8, 2019

keras said:
Thanks, Douggg

Claninja; we have had many discussions, without any consensus between us.
Your post above is just another example of your intransigence and your rejection of any possible fulfilment of the Prophesies in the near future.
Have a good end times!

We actually have had consensus in the past. But what concerns me is personal interpretation of prophecy that is not backed by NT scripture. There are hundreds, if not thousands of different interpretations of OT scripture and revelation on website alone. Keras, you are not the only one who has ever said to me I must not believe or understand scripture because I didn’t believe their interpretation of it. Who’s interpretation should I believe? The one that can actually back up their interpretation of OT and revelation with the gospels and epistles.

So, if you want to convince anyone that your interpretation of the OT is the right one out of the hundreds on this website, back it up with NT scripture.

keras · Dec 8, 2019

claninja said:
We actually have had consensus in the past. But what concerns me is personal interpretation of prophecy that is not backed by NT scripture. There are hundreds, if not thousands of different interpretations of OT scripture and revelation on website alone. Keras, you are not the only one who has ever said to me I must not believe or understand scripture because I didn’t believe their interpretation of it. Who’s interpretation should I believe? The one that can actually back up their interpretation of OT and revelation with the gospels and epistles.

So, if you want to convince anyone that your interpretation of the OT is the right one out of the hundreds on this website, back it up with NT scripture.

I do not see an absolute necessity to 100% support OT prophesies with NT scripture. Which is mainly the Gospel message for us today, not so much to do with what God plans for our future.
Several times I have given supporting scriptures, like Romans 9:24-26, where the NT does say the Lord's Christian people will be present in the holy Land. Also confirmed by Revelation 13:7.
But you can't accept the truth of this, I can only assume if you do that; it means that you have believed lies and false theories.

Beside that, I object to your accusations of my 'personal interpretation', of the Bible prophesies.
My task, I believe the Lord has laid on me, is to write out the prophesies in short article form, in order for people to read them in a simpler form. Supporting verses, historical facts and common knowledge all help to understand what is Written. If I do make a guess, then I say so.
Have you looked at my logostelos.info website?

claninja · Dec 10, 2019

keras said:
I do not see an absolute necessity to 100% support OT prophesies with NT scripture.

Then how do we know that your interpretation, out of the hundreds of different interpretations on this forum alone, is the correct one? Are we not to test the spirits?

keras said:
Several times I have given supporting scriptures, like Romans 9:24-26, where the NT does say the Lord's Christian people will be present in the holy Land. Also confirmed by Revelation 13:7.
But you can't accept the truth of this, I can only assume if you do that; it means that you have believed lies and false theories.

I disbelieve your interpretations of those passages because that is not at all what those passages state.

keras said:
Beside that, I object to your accusations of my 'personal interpretation', of the Bible prophesies.

If they are not personal interpretations, then support them with NT scripture. Otherwise don't object if your are not willing to do the work.

keras · Dec 11, 2019

claninja said:
Then how do we know that your interpretation, out of the hundreds of different interpretations on this forum alone, is the correct one? Are we not to test the spirits?

I disbelieve your interpretations of those passages because that is not at all what those passages state.

If they are not personal interpretations, then support them with NT scripture. Otherwise don't object if your are not willing to do the work.

In my articles, I write out the scripture as given to us by the Bible Prophets. I don't 'interpret' them, just point out what they say. Then I do use other scriptures to help explain it, with the benefit of modern knowledge and hindsight.
That you think those passages mean something other than their plain message, is your prerogative, but such thinking makes for much confusion.

How many times must I prove my case with NT scripture? I have done so, but they don't suit your belief, so you reject them.
How can you deny the presence of a new Temple with 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1?

Lost4words · Dec 11, 2019

keras said:
In my articles, I write out the scripture as given to us by the Bible Prophets. I don't 'interpret' them, just point out what they say. Then I do use other scriptures to help explain it, with the benefit of modern knowledge and hindsight.
That you think those passages mean something other than their plain message, is your prerogative, but such thinking makes for much confusion.

How many times must I prove my case with NT scripture? I have done so, but they don't suit your belief, so you reject them.
How can you deny the presence of a new Temple with 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1?

Its still 'Your' interpretation/opinion/belief of what said scripture means or is saying.

jgr · Dec 11, 2019

keras said:
How can you deny the presence of a new Temple with 2 Thess 2:4

Still haven't figured out Paul's "naos" spiritual temple, eh?

keras · Dec 11, 2019

Lost4words said:
Its still 'Your' interpretation/opinion/belief of what said scripture means or is saying.

How is that? Scripture says what it means.
It is your beliefs that do not line up with what the Bible says, so its your problem.

Your constant harping against what I write, without any proper rebuttal, is useless. Show an example of where I have wrongly 'interpreted' any prophecy.

keras · Dec 11, 2019

jgr said:
Still haven't figured out Paul's "naos" spiritual temple, eh?

Demonstration of a one track mind.

Naos: Strongs G3495, from the root nato; to dwell. A shrine, a Temple.
NOT just a spiritual Temple, as we Christians are now, but also a literal Temple that will be built in Jerusalem by the faithful Christian citizens of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

jgr · Dec 11, 2019

keras said:
Demonstration of a one track mind.

Naos: Strongs G3495, from the root nato; to dwell. A shrine, a Temple.
NOT just a spiritual Temple, as we Christians are now, but also a literal Temple that will be built in Jerusalem by the faithful Christian citizens of the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

Yep, one track mind like Paul's.

He understood the difference between spiritual and physical, and chose his terms accordingly and consistently.

Something today's futurists are incapable of.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Ephesians 2:21
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Lost4words · Dec 12, 2019

keras said:
How is that? Scripture says what it means.
It is your beliefs that do not line up with what the Bible says, so its your problem.

Your constant harping against what I write, without any proper rebuttal, is useless. Show an example of where I have wrongly 'interpreted' any prophecy.

claninja · Dec 13, 2019

keras said:
In my articles, I write out the scripture as given to us by the Bible Prophets. I don't 'interpret' them, just point out what they say. Then I do use other scriptures to help explain it, with the benefit of modern knowledge and hindsight.

By writing out scripture, you mean you just copy word for word the passage on your blog with out providing your own explanation? Otherwise, as soon as you provide an explanation, that would be interpretation.

keras said:
That you think those passages mean something other than their plain message, is your prerogative, but such thinking makes for much confusion.

I believe much of the words of the OT prophets to be visions/parables/riddles/dreams (numbers 12:6-8) that point to Christ.

Numbers 12:6-8 And he said, “Hear my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the Lord make myself known to him in a vision; I speak with him in a dream. Not so with my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

keras said:
How can you deny the presence of a new Temple with 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1?

It's quite simple. Revelation 11:1-2 is in regards to 1st century Jerusalem. Just use scripture to interpret scripture. According to Jesus the trampling of Jerusalem by gentiles is associated with the destruction of the temple in 70ad. Revelation 11 mentions this same event. You cannot argue that these tramplings are different, as the both end with the coming of Christ.

Luke 21:24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Revelation 11:2 do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

If a temple was standing in the 1st century when Paul wrote 2 thess 2:4, why didn't he just mention the building of a new temple, so as not to confuse his FIRST CENTURY AUDIENCE with another temple?

keras · Dec 13, 2019

claninja said:
By writing out scripture, you mean you just copy word for word the passage on your blog with out providing your own explanation? Otherwise, as soon as you provide an explanation, that would be interpretation.

If a temple was standing in the 1st century when Paul wrote 2 thess 2:4, why didn't he just mention the building of a new temple, so as not to confuse his FIRST CENTURY AUDIENCE with another temple?

Not explaining so much as reiterating the same message with other prophesies.
For example; the Lord's Day of fiery wrath is mentioned and graphically described in over 100 prophesies. Plainly it has not happened yet.
Do you want to know about it, or are you too uninterested in your preterist beliefs, to consider you may have to face that terrible Day?

Re; the Temple, maybe Pauls 1st century audience did get confused, but in hindsight, we know his epistles were for all Christians for all the Church age.
What is perfectly evident, is what Paul prophesied in 2 Thess 2:4 is yet to happen.

keras · Dec 21, 2019

Psalms 2:8 & Psalms 110:5-6 I; [God] give You [Jesus] the nations as Your domain, the earth to its furthest ends as Your possession. The Lord at Your right hand, [Jesus] will crush the rulers of the whole earth on the Day of His wrath. In glorious majesty He will judge the nations, breaking them with His rod of iron, shattering them like a clay pot, heaping up the dead around the world. Habakkuk 3:12, 2 Peter 3:7

This terrible, worldwide judgement/punishment has not happened, as yet. Now we are in the end times and as we approach the time of Jesus’ Return, many prophesied things must take place. Even now, there is a push toward a New World Order, a global government, but to enable this to be set up, there has to be some kind of disaster, a dramatic change in our current situation, that will induce the nations to give up their sovereignty. What it is that the Lord will use to carry out this sudden and shocking event, has to be something that can be looked upon as a natural disaster, so most survivors can continue in their disbelief of a Creator and give their allegiance to the dictator of this world government. Many prophecies tell us of this forthcoming judgement of the nations, a global disaster of Noahic proportions, this time of fire, earthquakes and storm winds. Deut. 32:22 & 34-35, Isaiah 66:15-16, Rev. 6:12-17

Some scriptures of what will happen on that Day:
In Israel [Judah] –

Zephaniah 1:4-18 I shall stretch out My hand over Judah, over all that live in Jerusalem. On the Day of the Lord’s sacrifice, I shall wipe out all traces of idol worship I will punish all those complacent people. All who commit crimes of violence and fraud will fall with a great crash. The great Day of the Lord is near and coming fast - His Day of wrath and distress onto the peoples. Their blood and guts will pour out like dung upon the ground and nothing can save them from the fire of His judgement. He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the holy Land. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Matthew 21:41-43

In other Middle Eastern countries:

Ezekiel 30:2-5 Wail! Alas for the Day, the Day of the Lord is near. A Day of reckoning for the nations. A Day of disaster for Egypt; they will fall by the sword of the Lord’s slaughter. All the Arab nations, the Africans, Libyans and peoples of that area will be killed along with Egypt. Zephaniah 2:12, Isaiah 29:8-12, Amos 1:2-15 & 2:1-5

Isaiah 34:5-8 The sword of the Lord will appear in the sky and descend in judgement upon Edom, onto a people doomed for destruction. His sword is sated with blood, for on His Day of vengeance, the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a slaughter in Edom. Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 35:1-15, Jeremiah 49:1-39

In Edom, a metaphor for all the ungodly peoples.

Bozrah, means – glad tidings in Hebrew, but is also the name given to a sheepfold, so it refers to where the Lord’s faithful Christian people live, scattered among the nations.

Acts 2:19 I will show wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth: blood, fire and smoke…
This terrible disaster that will strike the earth is not unprecedented. There has been events that have caused mass extinctions and Noah’s Flood destroyed the entire antediluvian world.

The Lord’s Day of wrath, Revelation 6:12-17, will be ‘the Rod of Iron’, as He punishes the nations, Jeremiah 9:25-26, Ezekiel 32:20-32, and our world will never be the same again.

Isaiah 30:15…In calm detachment lies your safety, your strength in quiet trust. Isaiah 51:6
We who trust the Lord and keep His commandments have the promises of His protection on the Day and then the great prophecies of His people gathering and settling into all of the holy Land will come to pass. Isaiah 62:1-5, Zechariah 9:14-18

The Truth about our Future

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jesus I Trust In You

Called of God

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Jesus I Trust In You

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Jesus I Trust In You

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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