Prophets, predictions and wonders

keras · Dec 11, 2019

Lost4words said:
False prophets. I should have put the word 'false' down.

Define a 'false prophet'.
Most Bible Prophets have prophecies that have not happened.
Do we call them 'false' or do we think that because their predictions haven't happened yet and we await the end time events; they WILL be fulfilled, maybe quite soon?

Why do you call a person who promotes those prophecies; 'false'? Is it because they conflict with your beliefs?

dqhall · Dec 11, 2019

keras said:
Define a 'false prophet'.
Most Bible Prophets have prophecies that have not happened.
Do we call them 'false' or do we think that because their predictions haven't happened yet and we await the end time events; they WILL be fulfilled, maybe quite soon?

Why do you call a person who promotes those prophecies; 'false'? Is it because they conflict with your beliefs?

yeshuaslavejeff said:
What is the role of a prophet? It’s in the Bible, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, NKJV. "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him."

God speaks to us through the prophets. It’s in the Bible, Hosea 12:10, NKJV. “I have also spoken by the prophets, and have multiplied visions; I have given symbols through the witness of the prophets.”

God reveals His plans to the prophets. It’s in the Bible, Amos 3:7, NKJV. “Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets”

It's to our benefit to listen to God's prophets. It’s in the Bible, 2 Chronicles 20:20, NKJV. “…'Hear me, O Judah and you inhabitants of Jerusalem: Believe in the LORD your God, and you shall be established; believe His prophets, and you shall prosper.’”

How does God speak to His prophets? It’s in the Bible, Numbers 12:6, NKJV. “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream”

Why did God send prophets? To guide his people in the right way. It’s in the Bible, 2 Chronicles 24:19, NKJV. “Yet He sent prophets to them, to bring them back to the LORD; and they testified against them, but they would not listen.”

Prophets are not necessarily popular. It’s in the Bible, Matthew 5:11-12, NKJV. “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Prophets are not popular, because they speak what is right, not what is popular. It's in the Bible, Isaiah 30:10, NIV. "They say to the seers, 'See no more visions!' and to the prophets, 'Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.'"

How can we recognize a true prophet? Their predictions will occur as predicted. It’s in the Bible, Jeremiah 28:9, NKJV. “As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”

Prophets | Bibleinfo.com

Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 13 KJV
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

A prophet might receive information from God about how to repair a home. The person may have known some repairs, but receives prophesy from God to do what he did not previously see should be done.

Paul confessed his imperfection and God’s perfection. Paul’s part was not at that time perfected, but was at work already.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

dqhall said:
Paul’s part was not at that time perfected, but was at work already.

What part was not perfect?
Who else do you know who could honestly and truthfully say , with God's Affirming,
they "know of nothing against themselves" (at all) ?

dqhall · Dec 11, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
What part was not perfect?
Who else do you know who could honestly and truthfully say , with God's Affirming,
they "know of nothing against themselves" (at all) ?

Ask Paul. He described his knowledge as like looking through dark glass. Paul succeeded as a result of God’s help more than from his own knowledge.

Maria Billingsley · Dec 11, 2019

mindlight said:
But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

A true prophet is sent by the God of Israel who prophesies about future events. They are human messengers speaking on behalf of the Almighty. Muhammad was not sent by the God of Israel nor did he delivery any messages. He invented a new religion.
Be blessed.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

dqhall said:
Ask Paul. He described his knowledge as like looking through dark glass. Paul succeeded as a result of God’s help more than from his own knowledge.

I agree with Jesus, and with all of His Ekklesia. What was PERFECT, was PERFECT.

No lack there.

DennisTate · Dec 11, 2019

mindlight said:
There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

I think that some near death experiencers are given glimpses of the future that clarify the predictions in the Bible for us but........ these people are often shown that events do not have to happen this way but can be altered by our choices..... by our prayers....... by our repentance.

BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

mindlight · Dec 11, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
A true prophet is sent by the God of Israel who prophesies about future events. They are human messengers speaking on behalf of the Almighty. Muhammad was not sent by the God of Israel nor did he delivery any messages. He invented a new religion.
Be blessed.

John the Baptist was regarded by Jesus as one of the greatest prophets but the only prediction he made was that the Messiah was coming. But since he was his cousin and the two families knew each other was he not really simply testifying to his recognition of Jesus as Messiah. Indeed even in his mother's womb he leapt for joy in Jesus presence. There is nothing truly predictive here, he simply knows Jesus and dedicates and sacrifices his life to prepare a way for him. So if predictions and indeed wonders are essential to a prophet why were both missing in the greatest of prophets.

Muhammed is therefore dismissed as a prophet not simply cause he made no predictions and performed no wonders but because he did not stand in Christ presence nor did he testify to him. His revelations contradicted scripture and affirmed himself rather than God

tturt · Dec 11, 2019

The source of authentic prophetic words is God (Yahweh) which contrast with Allah who isnt God of followers of Jesus

S.O.J.I.A. · Dec 11, 2019

Douggg · Dec 11, 2019

THE W said:
....

In Daniel 11:40, near the end of the 7 years, the beast will be attacked by the king of the south. imo, the king of the south will be leader of united African nations - which your flag indicates that you support that movement. So some uniting of the African nations will probably happen. Someone like Julius Malema could end up being that leader,

ICONO'CLAST · Dec 11, 2019

There are no prophets today, not one.
Muhammed [no peace be upon him, but rather wrath abides on him]
was a demonic false prophet who is in hell now.
God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness.
Everything has been revealed and we are heading closer to the last day.

Aussie Pete · Dec 11, 2019

mindlight said:
There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

A prophet may or may not predict the future. I don't recall John the Baptist making predictions or performing signs and wonders. Yet he was the greatest of the OT prophets.

In the NT, the primary role of the prophet is to receive revelation from God and make it known to others, especially those who are called to teach (including yours truly). I spent 30 years learning from the greatest man of God I've ever met, someone who is virtually unknown. Most of those who did know him, were offended by him. Very few people will receive truth about themselves without being offended. I got offended many times. I also knew, deep down, that he was right.

The Bible refers to a place called "The knowledge of the Truth". It does not mean to know everything. It does mean to know with certainty the fundamentals of what it is to be born again and to be saved in the soul. No one can take my salvation away from me because I know whom I have believed. Some people conflate certainty with arrogance. Do you know your name? Have you sighted your birth certificate? Could someone convince you that you are not who you claim to be? Mostly, no. Is that arrogance? I don't believe so either.

The prophet has a key role in leading people to the knowledge of the truth. The Teacher has a key role in making the truth more generally known to all believers. The prophet tends to be one who is hidden and unknown. The teacher is much more public. The prophet is much despised, especially in his own backyard (as Lord Jesus said).

Mohamed was no more a prophet than the devil. Does anyone really believe that God speaks through a mass murdering paedophile, apart from Muslims, who will be killed if they say anything against Mohamed? Christians who accept Islam as related in any way to Christianity are 100% deceived. Not many Christians living in Muslim countries are so sanguine about Islam. Not that there are many left. Most have been killed, imprisoned or driven out.

JacksBratt · Dec 11, 2019

mindlight said:
There are great many biblical prophets who said things before they happened and performed wonders also. Elijah and Elisha for instance. Agabus in the New Testament predicted a famine and the two witnesses who will stand in Jerusalem will bring down judgments on the angry nations and proclaim the coming King who will arrive shortly after they are resurrected.

But when I suggested that Muhammad was not a true prophet because he made no predictions and performed no wonders a number of Christian commentators suggested this did not matter for his recognition as a prophet.

So simple question: Are wonders and predictions essential features of a Christian prophet or is it enough to be an affirming oracle of Gods Kingdom testifying to Jesus?

This is a site that explains true prophets of God.. This one point stands out in answer to your OP..

11. Isaiah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

A true Prophet keeps God's Law, and abides by the testimony of the Bible Prophets as well. If a Prophet does not agree with the Bible Prophet's or does not keep God's Ten Commandments, he is a false Prophet.

From:https://www.preparingforeternity.com/trueprophet.htm

Paulus59 · Dec 11, 2019

Lost4words said:
There many modern day prophets (so called) on these very forums

Yep, I have come across them on this forum.

tturt · Dec 11, 2019

""And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

" And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." I COR 12:28

mindlight · Dec 12, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
There are no prophets today, not one.
Muhammed [no peace be upon him, but rather wrath abides on him]
was a demonic false prophet who is in hell now.
God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness.
Everything has been revealed and we are heading closer to the last day.

Do you think that there will be two prophets in Jerusalem on the very last days who will preach of the Coming King and perform wonders

mindlight · Dec 12, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
A prophet may or may not predict the future. I don't recall John the Baptist making predictions or performing signs and wonders. Yet he was the greatest of the OT prophets.

If the job of the prophets was to prepare the way for Jesus, to anticipate him and his Kingdom then John can be forgiven for not predicting things that were already happening right in front of him. Apart from him most if not all the other prophets made predictions of some sort or at least indicated that they were a party to Gods plans in motion.

In the NT, the primary role of the prophet is to receive revelation from God and make it known to others, especially those who are called to teach (including yours truly). I spent 30 years learning from the greatest man of God I've ever met, someone who is virtually unknown. Most of those who did know him, were offended by him. Very few people will receive truth about themselves without being offended. I got offended many times. I also knew, deep down, that he was right.

The Bible refers to a place called "The knowledge of the Truth". It does not mean to know everything. It does mean to know with certainty the fundamentals of what it is to be born again and to be saved in the soul. No one can take my salvation away from me because I know whom I have believed. Some people conflate certainty with arrogance. Do you know your name? Have you sighted your birth certificate? Could someone convince you that you are not who you claim to be? Mostly, no. Is that arrogance? I don't believe so either.

The prophet has a key role in leading people to the knowledge of the truth. The Teacher has a key role in making the truth more generally known to all believers. The prophet tends to be one who is hidden and unknown. The teacher is much more public. The prophet is much despised, especially in his own backyard (as Lord Jesus said).

Yes a prophet shares truthes that disturb, overthrow and reform. He warns of punishments impending if urgent actions are not taken. He exposes our souls and tells us God sees all. He makes people angry but not for his own glory but rather because the absurdity of a world that is so distant from God compels him to challenge it. He is an affront to worldliness and yet few know his name. Today people are really hot on climate activism and people like Greta Thunberg are regarded as prophets of impending doom challenging a comfortable apathetic consensus with warnings of danger. But there is no mention of God on her lips. There are similar figures campaigning for gay rights, womens rights to abortion as if they were voices of freedom and of a coming reality that will overthrow the corrupt existing world order. But these people who take on the mantle of prophets do not speak for God.

What is the key difference between a Teacher and a prophet?

Mohamed was no more a prophet than the devil. Does anyone really believe that God speaks through a mass murdering paedophile, apart from Muslims, who will be killed if they say anything against Mohamed? Christians who accept Islam as related in any way to Christianity are 100% deceived. Not many Christians living in Muslim countries are so sanguine about Islam. Not that there are many left. Most have been killed, imprisoned or driven out.

Some of his early "revelations" were quite edifying warnings of impending doom should people not turn back to God from idols. They had the prophetic quality of challenging an idolatrous existing order in Mecca. He made a lot of people angry there. But he never understood who Jesus was or the significance of the Virgin Birth. As you say he married Aisha who was only 6 consummating that relationship after her first period at aged 9-10. He waged war to spread his kingdom and it has proven oppressive to those he conquered even though they often welcomed him at first as less oppressive than the Greek theocratic Byzantines or the idolatrous Persians. Today the Muslim world is deeply oppressive and intolerant of free thought. Like the evil empire of communism a great many people in the Islamic world pay lip service to something they do not truly believe.

mindlight · Dec 12, 2019

JacksBratt said:
This is a site that explains true prophets of God.. This one point stands out in answer to your OP..

11. Isaiah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

A true Prophet keeps God's Law, and abides by the testimony of the Bible Prophets as well. If a Prophet does not agree with the Bible Prophet's or does not keep God's Ten Commandments, he is a false Prophet.

From:How to Distinguish Between a True Prophet and a False Prophet

Of course I agree with this post.

But in the case of Muhammad how would you explain his enduring appeal to more than a billion people. The most powerful lies must carry an element of truth with them. In the case of Muhammad the challenge to idolatry and the call to put God first, to behave righteously in fear of Gods judgment were all reasonable requests.

mindlight · Dec 12, 2019

tturt said:
""And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

" And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." I COR 12:28

Clearly some of the prophets in the OT and indeed the two witnesses in Jerusalem have a broader role than simply an internalised affirmation of the church. So I would take this verse in the context of the whole of scripture.

Jonah was called to prophesy to sinful Assyrians who did not know God, The two witnesses will challenge an angry world with an affirmation of the Coming King and Kingdom of God. Agabus warned of a famine that would touch not only Christians but others also.

Prophets, predictions and wonders

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