Does God approve stock market?

Carl Emerson

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You can not win in the stock market without someone else losing

That principle applies to any traded commodity...

Typically the shirt you buy is bought by the wholesaler for
20% of the price you pay and you think you haven't lost?

And they won big time...
 
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mama2one

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What do you think is this a legitimate way to obtain money?

no idea how most of the people against the stock market are going to retire; guessing they'll work until their 80's

companies have done away with pensions & most companies have gone to 401K

401K are a good way to save for retirement
one has options to put into stock market, bonds, & cash
depending on one's age, the breakup varies & closer one gets to retirement, less should be held in stocks

if you don't have a 401K at work, you could put money in annuities or IRAs

if one doesn't plan for retirement, then plan to live with your kids
 
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NeedyFollower

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This is a fallacy. No one has to lose. If you buy stock in Honda Motors and the company makes a profit because people bought Honda cars, Honda will pay you a dividend, which is your portion owed to you as a part owner of the company. I fail to see a loser. Your company made a car. Someone needed and bought a car. The got the car they wanted. Your company made money by selling the car for more than it cost to build it. You benefit from the profit. If Honda continues to do well and grows its business, the company becomes more valuable and you can sell your piece of the company for more than you bought it for. It's simply commerce, leastwise how it works in a capitalist economy.

Everything is a series of choices and yes of course someone loses ...maybe the person who gains the world and yet loses their own soul because of the desire of worldly gain . The person who watches for profit and loss , is neglecting something and someone else . It can not be otherwise . An undisputed Christian with the acknowledgement of God the Father said, You can not serve God and mammon . He also said when you give , ask not again . If Honda needs the money I guess one could give without seeking a return . If you only lend ( which is what you are describing ) to those whom you hope to receive again , do not the publicans do the same ? I guess this begs a different question . How are Christians different than the world ? So the stock market does not appear to be based on the concept of charity . Is Christianity ?
 
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Yekcidmij

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Yekcidmij

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He also said when you give , ask not again .

Luke 6 reads as if he's talking about personal loans to your enemies. I'm not sure how a business loan to, say, Honda (since that's the example in the thread) is in the same category as a personal loan to your enemies. And to stay on the thread's topic, "lending" isn't what's happening in the stock market - the stock market is equity investment. You're taking an equity ownership stake in a business, not making a loan. In a loan, you specify the terms of the loan - the period of time, interest rate, and any collateral. In an equity investment, you're trying to turn a profit by providing a good or service to people who willingly exchange with you.

In fact, Jesus has positive things to say about investing with expecting return:

Matt 25:27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest!

Lk 19:22 The king aid to him, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked slave! So you knew, did you, that I was a severe man, withdrawing what I didn’t deposit and reaping what I didn’t sow? 19:23 Why then didn’t you put my money in the bank, so that when I returned I could have collected it with interest?’​

This is an interesting verse too because it now only shows the wisdom of investing with an expected return, but it's also a form of lending. When you deposit money with bankers they lend it out on your behalf. What's more interesting in the parable is that God is the lender expecting a return on investment.

What differentiates this from Luke 6 is that Luke 6 seems to be talking about something specifically dealing with one's personal enemies. I think there is wisdom here as well in lending to one's enemies. Most people will see Luke 6's lending-to-enemies advice as a form of generosity, but it's really more shrewd. When you lend to someone, they become indebted to you and you become their creditor - you bear the risk. If they don't pay, their reputation suffers and you look generous for taking the risk. Lending to one's enemies potentially helps passivate their attitude towards you - you're now their creditor after all and it's their reputation that's at risk if they don't pay back their borrowings. You stand to turn your enemy into an ally and demonstrate your credibility and honesty in the eyes of others. Of course, if it's your enemy, you shouldn't expect them to pay you back - you should expect your enemy to try to take advantage of you (that's what enemies do). So in this particular example, I think Jesus is being more shrewd than he is saying to give away your money to your enemies as if you have a charity set just for them. He could have talked about charity here, but he chose to use the word for lending.

If Honda needs the money I guess one could give without seeking a return .

But the equity market is not a form of giving or lending. So your example is not comparable.
 
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seeking.IAM

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My son works for a large tech company that rewards performance annually with company stock in addition to cash. What would you have him do with the stock? Reject the stock and give it back because it is unchristian to be in the stock market? Cash the stock at once and give it to the church so he is not tainted by it's evil source? Should be church reject the donation coming from stock because of it's source?

I fully believe many simply don't understand the stock market, what it is, and how it works.
 
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1213

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What do you think is this a legitimate way to obtain money? is it gambling? Should we make money this way? What do you think?

Bible tells greed is bad and rather than collecting treasures on earth, we should make treasure in the heaves. That is not necessary in contradiction with stock market business, which I think is not gambling, unless you do it randomly.

Sell that which you have, and give gifts to the needy. Make for yourselves purses which don't grow old, a treasure in the heavens that doesn't fail, where no thief approaches, neither moth destroys.
Luke 12:33

Money can be as harmful even if you would get it by some other work. I think the crucial thing is, are you honest and fair and how you use the money.
 
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NeedyFollower

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So Christian's shouldn't own businesses? That's what the stock market is.

Paul made tents and Lydia was a seller of purple . Paul stayed with Simon the tanner ( a very disgusting "career " since the tanic acid often came from various kinds of dung which he had to collect . ) And of course the fishermen fished . Judas controlled the money bag so everyone has their role to play and God looks on the motive of the heart . There is I suppose a potential danger in anything in which we do that is legal in the eyes of the world and accepted by man but may steal our heart . Can we be just as excited about a loss as a gain ? Would we be in the same camp as those to whom it was written , " For you had compassion on me in my bonds and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods knowing in yourselves you have in heaven and more enduring substance . " ( Hebrews 10:34 ) It seems that the stock market is about making money rather than helping others . ( Why was not this perfume sold for three hundred denarri and given to the poor ? )
 
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NeedyFollower

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Luke 6 reads as if he's talking about personal loans to your enemies. I'm not sure how a business loan to, say, Honda (since that's the example in the thread) is in the same category as a personal loan to your enemies. And to stay on the thread's topic, "lending" isn't what's happening in the stock market - the stock market is equity investment. You're taking an equity ownership stake in a business, not making a loan. In a loan, you specify the terms of the loan - the period of time, interest rate, and any collateral. In an equity investment, you're trying to turn a profit by providing a good or service to people who willingly exchange with you.

In fact, Jesus has positive things to say about investing with expecting return:

Matt 25:27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest!

Lk 19:22 The king aid to him, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked slave! So you knew, did you, that I was a severe man, withdrawing what I didn’t deposit and reaping what I didn’t sow? 19:23 Why then didn’t you put my money in the bank, so that when I returned I could have collected it with interest?’​

This is an interesting verse too because it now only shows the wisdom of investing with an expected return, but it's also a form of lending. When you deposit money with bankers they lend it out on your behalf. What's more interesting in the parable is that God is the lender expecting a return on investment.

What differentiates this from Luke 6 is that Luke 6 seems to be talking about something specifically dealing with one's personal enemies. I think there is wisdom here as well in lending to one's enemies. Most people will see Luke 6's lending-to-enemies advice as a form of generosity, but it's really more shrewd. When you lend to someone, they become indebted to you and you become their creditor - you bear the risk. If they don't pay, their reputation suffers and you look generous for taking the risk. Lending to one's enemies potentially helps passivate their attitude towards you - you're now their creditor after all and it's their reputation that's at risk if they don't pay back their borrowings. You stand to turn your enemy into an ally and demonstrate your credibility and honesty in the eyes of others. Of course, if it's your enemy, you shouldn't expect them to pay you back - you should expect your enemy to try to take advantage of you (that's what enemies do). So in this particular example, I think Jesus is being more shrewd than he is saying to give away your money to your enemies as if you have a charity set just for them. He could have talked about charity here, but he chose to use the word for lending.



But the equity market is not a form of giving or lending. So your example is not comparable.

No , my example is not comparable and was probably disingenuous for which I ask your forgiveness . To me anyway ..It is part of the american gospel , probably has it roots in the protestant work ethic ( see Max Webber , The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism ) And of course the parable which Jesus told about getting a return had nothing to do earthly gains for these things are contrary to His words of laying up treasure on earth . ( To suppose this is to take the words in proverbs regarding a slothful man's vineyard covered with weeds and the stone fence fallen down and draw the conclusion that God wants us to plant a literal vineyard ) ... We are expected to bring heavenly returns on what He has given us for no one can steal those . We will use the adage " I am only being a good steward and being shrewd .
Does not investing in companies put one in a position of being unequally yoked with the world ? The goal of multinational companies is profit , not godliness . Now if one wishes to support a fisherman or a tentmaker ...at God's leading ...that would appear different to me anyway but everyone shall give an account of their own heart ...the love of mammon will be found in our heart or the Love of God . How are we different from the world which also seeks after these things ? Luke 16:14 Now the pharisees , who were lovers of money derided Jesus . Luke 13 through 15 is just as relevant today if God does not change with the times .
 
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