fwGod post #259 said:
You are insisting that we should ignore context and think that we are worshiping the Holy wind, the Holy breath.
JAL said:
LOL. What context am I ignoring?
You are ignoring the context of the verse that dictates whether to use the word "breath", or "wind", or "spirit"
For instance the following will demonstrate adhering to scripture context.
Jesus on the cross committed his spirit unto God (ps.31:5; Lk.23:46)
from Bible site
רוּחַ rûwach, roo'-akh; from H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):—air, anger, blast, breath, × cool, courage, mind, × quarter, × side, spirit(-ual), tempest, × vain, (whirl-) wind(-y).
Any of those words are usable in any verse of scripture according to the context.
2 Sam.22:16 "And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath
H7307 of his nostrils."
- not wind, not spirit.
2 Sam.23:2 "The Spirit
H7307 of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue."
- not breath, not wind.
1 Kngs 18:12 "And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit
H7307 of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth."
- not breath, not wind.
1 Kngs 19:11 "And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind
H7307 rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind:
H7307
and after the wind
H7307 an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake."
- the Spirit of the Lord was not in the wind. The the Spirit is not the wind. According to John 4:24, the Holy Spirit is like the wind.
Jer.49:36 "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds
H7307 from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds;
H7307 and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."
- the movement of air.
2 Chron.36:22 "Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit
H7307 of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying.."
- not breath, not wind.
Lk.23:46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
from Bible site
The KJV translates Pneuma Strong's G4151 in the following manner: Spirit (111x), Holy Ghost (89x), Spirit (of God) (13x), Spirit (of the Lord) (5x), (My) Spirit (3x), Spirit (of truth) (3x), Spirit (of Christ) (2x), human (spirit) (49x), (evil) spirit (47x), spirit (general) (26x), spirit (8x), (Jesus' own) spirit (6x), (Jesus' own) ghost (2x), miscellaneous (21x).
From where then do you JAL get the idea that the word Pneuma be translated- "breath", "wind"?
Continuing with the information of that Bible site page..
* the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
* sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
* sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
* never referred to as a depersonalised force
* the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
* the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
at the very bottom of the list-
A. of the wind, hence the wind itself.
B. breath of nostrils or mouth.
Concerning those-
STRONGS NT 4151: πνεῦμα
πνεῦμα, πνεύματος, τό (πνέω), Greek writings from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; Hebrew רוּחַ, Latin spiritus; i. e.:
1. a movement of air (gentle) blast;
a. of the wind: ἀνέμων πνεύματα, Herodotus 7, 16, 1; Pausanias, 5, 25; hence, the wind itself, John 3:8; plural Hebrews 1:7 (1 Kings 18:45; 1 Kings 19:11; Job 1:19; Psalm 103:4 (Psalms 104:4), etc.; often in Greek writings).
b. breath of the nostrils or mouth, often in Greek writings from Aeschylus down: πνεῦμα τοῦ στόματος, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (Psalm 32:6 (Ps. 33:6), cf. Isaiah 11:4); πνεῦμα ζωῆς, the breath of life, Revelation 11:11 (Genesis 6:17, cf. πνοή ζωῆς,
.
Now here is the post to 1213 who quoted the scripture John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
Concerning that verse, you JAL ignored the context and changed the words to fit with your private interpretation.
JAL post #250 said:
"God is wind, and those who worship him must worship in wind and truth."
And now returning to post #259
JAL said:
Your shoving a Platonic bias INTO the context..
Since I correctly quote the scripture verse from any Bible today "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
That is according to the Bible translators, and get this, none of them have any explanation anywhere that they have used Plato's teachings to make their translations. Neither did they say that any ancient manuscript had any Plato bias in them.
It's clear then that you are using a strawman to accuse me of having a Plato bias, and shoving it into the context.
JAL said:
..and berating me for ignoring it!
I merely pointed out that you are ignoring context. You have interpreted erroneously that I berated you.
JAL said:
The only CLEAR thing mentioned in those contexts is breath/wind !!!
What's clear concerning John 4:24, is that it says "Spirit". And it's clear that you incorrectly, without any inspirational authority from God.. have inserted "wind".
As I stated previously, and the Bible site confirms it, an impersonal wind cannot accurately describe the personable Holy Spirit.
I suspect that you grossly misunderstood the following.. an excerpt that has been taken from.. or from an article like it
The Holy Spirit: Breath of God
"Lets take this into the New Testament because we have almost the same thing where Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit.
He says, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:608, NKJV).
Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, and He's saying it is like wind. When you get into the Greek behind that, the Greek word is pneuma, which again means "a current of air,".. "breath,".. or a "breeze, " .. and again by analogy, "a spirit."
"So both the Hebrew and the Greek word are talking about breath. It's talking about wind."
It must be pointed out that the person still uses the word "Spirit" when talking about the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not teaching that we should all call the third person of the Trinity - "the Holy Breath", or "the Holy Wind".
He is describing the effect of the Holy Spirit being like the wind. Or to say that no man can determine or predict what the Holy Spirit will go next or what He will do next.
There is no indication in that article that anyone should, as JAL does, formulate a new doctrine based on it, or that it's scriptural for us all to henceforth change words in the text to address the Holy Spirit as "Breath" and "Wind".
I haven't looked at your other posts yet, but I'll let you know now that I may or may not answer your other posts. It depends on whether I have time, and/or whether they are just repeating what has already been covered.