Dear President Trump: Please Make America Flush Clean Again

OldWiseGuy said:

Last I heard water was a self-renewing resource.

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Potable water is not.

OldWiseGuy said:

Last I heard water was a self-renewing resource.

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To an extent - water is often taken from wells at a faster rate than it is replenished. Aquifers often only recharge in a specific area (where the geologic unit that they are contained in is exposed to the surface), so rain has to fall in that area for it to make it back into the aquifer. For more traditionally-charged groundwater, we have dual issues. First, paving cities and riverbeds has massively reduced the area of infiltration and increased the amount of water that runs off back to the ocean rather than going back into the ground. Second, chemical pollution from farms and industry still makes its way into our groundwater despite our best efforts to prevent it. My local groundwater has a few contaminant plumes in it now that are being monitored and prevent the use of some wells.

Furthermore, there are other issues with water usage, especially in the Southwest. Water taken from rivers can alter or even totally dry up a river downstream, destroying habitat and hurting recreation opportunities.

If over population and climate change weren't a problem then low flow toilets wouldn't of been a solution needed. But Trump can't connect the dots bc it doesn't fit his ideology.

OldWiseGuy said:

People should examine their diets anyway.

Water saver toilets have so little standing water in them that it can take several flushes to remove the 'residue' that often sticks to the sides of the bowl. Of course a 'first flush' at the 'moment of contact' will usually prevent this. A second flush is then needed to complete the 'paperwork'. So in any case two flushes are prudent.

I always tell new tenants to hold the handle down until the tank is fully emptied if they want a stronger flush.

The greatest advantage of the water saver toilets is that they rarely overflow, and are quite easy to unclog due to the design of the channel.

Still being studied is the effect of all water saving devices on the efficiency of the drainline systems of municipal waste systems, which can be 'starved' for lack of sufficient water volume.

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It's a relief to finally see you posting based on knowledge for once.

ChristianForCats said:

Have you ever compared water bills when you use more water one month than another?

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I did a personal study on that some time ago (just before I proved you can eat healthy on just the SNAP allotment).

It's the fixed (demand) charges that represent most of your bill. Saving water doesn't save that much money, and it's a pain in the neck. It's the business/industrial/agricultural use of water that is the most wasteful.

evoeth said:

It's a relief to finally see you posting based on knowledge for once.

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Don't you mean it's nice to see me post something that you understand.

The USSR/Russians decided divert the fresh water flowing into the Aral Sea to be used as irrigation. Today the Aral Sea is 1/4 to 1/3 its original size and highly saline. The former seabed is now a salt desert and now the entire area is plagued with sand/salt storms. It used to be a pleasant place to live but is now increasingly uninhabitable. Mother Nature can be very vindictive when you mess with her.

essentialsaltes said:

Potable water is not.

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Run it through a R/O filter or distiller and voila, potable water. Makes great ice cubes for yer margaritas as well.

JackRT said:

The USSR/Russians decided divert the fresh water flowing into the Aral Sea to be used as irrigation. Today the Aral Sea is 1/4 to 1/3 its original size and highly saline. The former seabed is now a salt desert and now the entire area is plagued with sand/salt storms. It used to be a pleasant place to live but is now increasingly uninhabitable. Mother Nature can be very vindictive when you mess with her.

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I agree. That's why we need agricultural reforms.

OldWiseGuy said:

Run it through a R/O filter or distiller and voila, potable water. Makes great ice cubes for yer margaritas as well.
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Your processing of the water means that it isn't "self-renewing".

OldWiseGuy said:

Run it through a R/O filter or distiller and voila, potable water. Makes great ice cubes for yer margaritas as well.
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R/O filters flush ~50-70% of the water you put through them as waste. Distillation is better in that regard, but requires multi-stage filtration (you need a carbon filter to remove volatile organic compounds), is significantly slower, and has high energy costs (~3x R/O).

Also, as already pointed out, the processing requirement means it isn't self-renewing. For the system to be self-renewing, enough rain would have to fall and be captured as groundwater or be present in streams to equal our current water consumption.

iluvatar5150 said:

Your processing of the water means that it isn't "self-renewing".

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The subject was renewing water in general, not renewing 'potable' water. Where are we losing this water, into outer space? Doesn't much of it flow to the oceans to be purified and returned as rain?

RocksInMyHead said:

R/O filters flush ~50-70% of the water you put through them as waste. Distillation is better in that regard, but requires multi-stage filtration (you need a carbon filter to remove volatile organic compounds), is significantly slower, and has high energy costs (~3x R/O).

Also, as already pointed out, the processing requirement means it isn't self-renewing. For the system to be self-renewing, enough rain would have to fall and be captured as groundwater or be present in streams to equal our current water consumption.

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My distiller helps to heat the house in cold weather...no waste. I put it on the porch in the summer.

If we really want to save potable water we should abandon the foolish idea of drinking eight glasses of it per day (this would also cut down on toilet flushing).

OldWiseGuy said:

The subject was renewing water in general, not renewing 'potable' water. Where are we losing this water, into outer space? Doesn't much of it flow to the oceans to be purified and returned as rain?

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Your comment about the r/o filter was made in response to another comment about potable water, which is what's typically used to fill toilets in this country.

OldWiseGuy said:

The subject was renewing water in general, not renewing 'potable' water. Where are we losing this water, into outer space? Doesn't much of it flow to the oceans to be purified and returned as rain?

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Water renewing itself indefinitely is irrelevant to human existence unless it's potable. Yes, pretty much all water stays in the water cycle. However, it's of very limited use to us if we don't capture it and it's not potable.

iluvatar5150 said:

Your comment about the r/o filter was made in response to another comment about potable water, which is what's typically used to fill toilets in this country.

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We could flush the toilet with waste water from doing the laundry or the dishes. Rainwater collected in a cistern could also be used. Washers used to have a 'water saver' feature that reused the first wash water (whites) for the heavier soiled stuff in the second wash cycle. But we've 'progressed' past that.

RocksInMyHead said:

Water renewing itself indefinitely is irrelevant to human existence unless it's potable. Yes, pretty much all water stays in the water cycle. However, it's of very limited use to us if we don't capture it and it's not potable.

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I think it's too late to solve these water problems. It would mean using proper farming techniques which while correcting many problems would lead to mass starvation of our overpopulated earth.

OldWiseGuy said:

We could flush the toilet with waste water from doing the laundry or the dishes. Rainwater collected in a cistern could also be used. Washers used to have a 'water saver' feature that reused the first wash water (whites) for the heavier soiled stuff in the second wash cycle. But we've 'progressed' past that.

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...my dad had a cistern which collected rain water from the roof in relatively wet Pennsylvania. Sadly here in Arizona, I see very few efforts to collect rain water which is too bad. That might change as the Colorado River water reductions will force cutbacks and eventually higher prices in urban areas such as Phoenix. Using water from washing machines, showers, etc for outdoor irrigation can be done as well.