The Fatal Flaw in Dispensationalism

Al Touthentop said:

You could do what you've been doing this whole time, trying to convince me that contrary to the scriptures, two gospels were being preached. This in spite of the fact that Paul said there was only one, and he said this because Jesus said it first to Peter.

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Gospel means good news.

Paul was writing to the Galatians, who are Gentiles, that there is only one gospel FOR THEM, which is his gospel.

You are again doing an interpretation of all these scripture to make your doctrine that "Peter MUST be preaching the same gospel" in early Acts to the JEWS.

Why are there people who insist that their interpretation MUST be the correct one? I am aware I am also interpreting scripture, so I can agree to disagree with your interpretation.

Al Touthentop said:

I have changed my mind. I accepted what the apostles taught finally.

"Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said."

All of that prophecy was about this. The apostles didn't understand it until Jesus was seen alive and opened their hearts to the scripture. John writes that Jesus told them this previous to his resurrection but it wasn't until afterward that they believed and understood.

You can keep knocking on that door of a physical kingdom but it isn't coming and never will. It wasn't ever promised. The only way that you can understand this is to reconcile the events that actually happened with the language of the prophecies.

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altouthentop,

1. When Adam and Eve sinned they lost the physical rule of the perfect garden and spiritual rule in their heart.

2. Fast Forward to Jesus teaching the KoH was declared at hand Matthew 4:17.
The physical KoG Matthew 6:33 they had to seek and it came without observation Luke 17-20-21.

3. Israel was given the call to bring forth the Messiah and they did.
Israel’s earthly calling is based on Genesis 12-15; for the Abrahamic Covenant; 2 Samuel 7:13-16;1 Chronicles 28:1-7 Davidic Covenant.
The land Matthew 5:5 Abramic covenant and the Davi Indic covenant Matthew 4:17.
It will come to pass in the future Romans 11:25-29. Their gifts and callings are without repentance.

4. Yes the Jews in Jesus day were looking for a conquering savior and not the suffering savior of Isaiah 53 and it was prophesied only that Israel would reject Christ and they did Matthew 23:37-39.
Israel had to believe in the Messiah and believe he would forgive their sins to gain entrance into the physical kingdom.
When Christ talked to Pilate and said his kingdom was not of this world the Jewish nation had already rejected him and it was time for him to be crucified.

4. We have to recognize the overall distinctions between the KoH and the KoG physical and spiritual.
However, Luke seems to use KoG, whereas Matthew uses more the KoH and they were never told to seek the KoH to receive salvation.
With that said, Mark 1:15 whether one believes the KoH or the KoG was physical or spiritual doesn’t actually matter.
When it says that it was fulfilled as in over with because the physical kingdom was at hand Matthew 4:17 but the Jews had to repent as a nation in order for that to happen.
The spiritual kingdom was believing in Jesus and that he would forgive their sins Matthew 5 when Jesus said said Blessed are they that mourn which means to repent.
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth was the land promised to Israel for the earthly reign.

5. This is why it is important to understand the historical and dispensational aspects of the covenants. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

altouthentop,

1. When Adam and Eve sinned they lost the physical rule of the perfect garden and spiritual rule in their heart.

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There is no evidence that they lost rule over their own heart. Jesus called Abel "righteous." Adam didn't pass along his sin to his son.

2. Fast Forward to Jesus teaching the KoH was declared at hand Matthew 4:17.
The physical KoG Matthew 6:33 they had to seek and it came without observation Luke 17-20-21.

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It was and is a spiritual kingdom.

3. Israel was given the call to bring forth the Messiah and they did.
Israel’s earthly calling is based on Genesis 12-15; for the Abrahamic Covenant; 2 Samuel 7:13-16;1 Chronicles 28:1-7 Davidic Covenant.
The land Matthew 5:5 Abramic covenant and the Davi Indic covenant Matthew 4:17.
It will come to pass in the future Romans 11:25-29. Their gifts and callings are without repentance.

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It was always - Christ's kingdom - to be a spiritual kingdom. The Jewish refusal to accept it as such led to their doom as an earthly nation.

4. Yes the Jews in Jesus day were looking for a conquering savior and not the suffering savior of Isaiah 53 and it was prophesied only that Israel would reject Christ and they did Matthew 23:37-39.
Israel had to believe in the Messiah and believe he would forgive their sins to gain entrance into the physical kingdom.

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The spiritual kingdom was what was taught. There never was any teaching by Jesus that he had come to establish an earthly kingdom.

When Christ talked to Pilate and said his kingdom was not of this world the Jewish nation had already rejected him and it was time for him to be crucified.

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Jesus was telling Pilate that the Jews who had brought him to be murdered, never understood this in the first place.

4. We have to recognize the overall distinctions between the KoH and the KoG physical and spiritual.
However, Luke seems to use KoG, whereas Matthew uses more the KoH and they were never told to seek the KoH to receive salvation.

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They are the same thing. The realm of the kingdom is heaven and the authorship and authority of this kingdom is from God.

With that said, Mark 1:15 whether one believes the KoH or the KoG was physical or spiritual doesn’t actually matter.

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Then nothing Jesus said matters.

When it says that it was fulfilled as in over with because the physical kingdom was at hand Matthew 4:17 but the Jews had to repent as a nation in order for that to happen.

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What you don't seem to understand is that the earthy kingdom was never thought to be God's kingdom but man's. When God allowed them kings, he specifically told Samuel that their insistence on an earthly king was their rejection of his rule. So the king that he finally brought us was his son, God, and finally reconciled man to God through Christ's resurrection.

The spiritual kingdom was believing in Jesus and that he would forgive their sins Matthew 5 when Jesus said said Blessed are they that mourn which means to repent.
Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth was the land promised to Israel for the earthly reign.

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An earthly kingdom would be anathema to what Jesus taught.

5. This is why it is important to understand the historical and dispensational aspects of the covenants. Jerry Kelso

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There is no "dispensational" aspect to the covenants in the sense that this odd doctrine is taught. God's kingdom was NEVER earthly. The Jews rejected God's spiritual kingdom by demanding an earthly king.

"And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them."

Don't make the same mistake that Israel did. To seek an earthly kingdom is to reject God.

jerry kelso said:

altouthentop,

4. Yes the Jews in Jesus day were looking for a conquering savior and not the suffering savior of Isaiah 53 and it was prophesied only that Israel would reject Christ and they did Matthew 23:37-39.
Israel had to believe in the Messiah and believe he would forgive their sins to gain entrance into the physical kingdom.
When Christ talked to Pilate and said his kingdom was not of this world the Jewish nation had already rejected him and it was time for him to be crucified.

5. This is why it is important to understand the historical and dispensational aspects of the covenants. Jerry Kelso

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That's right. One thing I noticed in the 4 Gospels account was that Jesus only spoke in parables about the KOH in the 2nd half. Initially he spoke plainly about the KOH. This change midway also puzzled the disciples Matthew 13:10

By the midway point of Matthew for example, the Jewish nation had been given enough opportunities to accept him as their King and it was clear that they are rejecting him.

By speaking in parables, Jesus was able to put the entire nation under ignorance (Numbers 15:22-31), and hence was able to ask God to forgive them for crucifying him, for "they know not what they do"

The offer of the physical kingdom will thus be postponed until after he died and resurrected, which Peter and the others were trying to do in early Acts.

Guojing said:

The offer of the physical kingdom will thus be postponed until after he died and resurrected, which Peter and the others were trying to do in early Acts.

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The pining away for an earthly kingdom is a rejection of God and his Christ.

"And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king."

The people of Israel had it wrong from the beginning. Their kingdom was finally utterly destroyed because it was in the desire for an earthly kingdom that proved their rejection of God.

They were never promised an earthly kingdom. Be careful what you wish for.

Al Touthentop said:

The pining away for an earthly kingdom is a rejection of God and his Christ.

"And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king."

The people of Israel had it wrong from the beginning. Their kingdom was finally utterly destroyed because it was in the desire for an earthly kingdom that proved their rejection of God.

They were never promised an earthly kingdom. Be careful what you wish for.

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Its indeed remarkable that you don't realized you are also interpreting scripture, and you kept insisting yours is the correct one.

Guojing said:

That's right. One thing I noticed in the 4 Gospels account was that Jesus only spoke in parables about the KOH in the 2nd half. Initially he spoke plainly about the KOH. This change midway also puzzled the disciples Matthew 13:10

By the midway point of Matthew for example, the Jewish nation had been given enough opportunities to accept him as their King and it was clear that they are rejecting him.

By speaking in parables, Jesus was able to put the entire nation under ignorance (Numbers 15:22-31), and hence was able to ask God to forgive them for crucifying him, for "they know not what they do"

The offer of the physical kingdom will thus be postponed until after he died and resurrected, which Peter and the others were trying to do in early Acts.

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guojing,

1. Matthew 13:10; Jesus did speak of the KoH in the parables.
The mysteries of the kingdom was given to the disciples Matthew 13:11 not the nation as a whole.
However, though this point was addressed to the disciples v11; v16; it would have to include all those who would believe on the Messiah such as Mary, Joseph, Zachariah’s and Elizabeth and John the Baptist etc.

2. They did reject him Matthew 23:37-39.

3. The KoH message was to be preached to the lost sheep of Israel Matthew 10:6-7.
Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost Luke 19:10.
So the entire nation was not put in ignorance, but the nation as a whole for the nation did reject him but not every individual Jew.
Jesus motive was not to put them into ignorance Luke 19:10 but it was the result of their unbelief which was prophesied Isaiah 53:3.
The point was Jesus wanted to have those would take up their cross and follow him.

4. Numbers 15:22-31; sins of ignorance that had atonement offerings.
was punishing the individuals not the whole nation.
Jesus intention was not to make them reject him because he wanted to save them.
But they were in ignorance and Jesus did say forgive them for they know not what they do.

5. The offer of the KoH was what Jesus proclamation was at hand Matthew 4:17.
Peter saw the signs of the KoH and he knew what the law and prophets said such as Joel Acts 2.
This is that which was spoken not fulfilled.
Acts 2 was a fulfillment of John 1:33 when John the Baptist said he baptized with water but one mightier than he would baptize them with the Holy Ghost.
Joel’s is prophetic to the time of Jacob’s trouble, which is the tribulation Jeremiah 30:7-10, and eventually into the millennial kingdom when creation that is groaning Romans 8:22 will blossom which deals with the early and latter rain Joel 2:23.

6. Acts 3:13-26 was Peter’s response to the healing of the lame man Acts 3:1-12. The people acted like they healed him and Peter said it wasn’t them who healed him but God.
So he goes into about the God of the patriarchs and who glorified his son Jesus who they rejected in the presence of Pilate.
They killed Jesus and God raised him up.
In his name through faith gave the lame man perfect soundness before them.
Peter believes the people were in ignorance as well as the rulers. What was fulfilled was Christ suffering which deals with the cross.
The rest of the chapter is that they should repent and the times of refreshing and restitution and being the children of the prophets and the covenants and the kindreds of the earth being blessed in the seed of Abraham which was Israel.
However, there is time factor he puts as when the times of resting would actually come as being right then.
So yes, Peter knows about the KoH message that will come sooner or later.
This would fall in line with Acts 1:6-7 when the disciples asked Jesus if he was going to restore the KoH right then and he said it was not for them to know what the Father had put in his own power.
Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

guojing,

1. Matthew 13:10; Jesus did speak of the KoH in the parables.
The mysteries of the kingdom was given to the disciples Matthew 13:11 not the nation as a whole.
However, though this point was addressed to the disciples v11; v16; it would have to include all those who would believe on the Messiah such as Mary, Joseph, Zachariah’s and Elizabeth and John the Baptist etc.

2. They did reject him Matthew 23:37-39.

3. The KoH message was to be preached to the lost sheep of Israel Matthew 10:6-7.
Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost Luke 19:10.
So the entire nation was not put in ignorance, but the nation as a whole for the nation did reject him but not every individual Jew.
Jesus motive was not to put them into ignorance Luke 19:10 but it was the result of their unbelief which was prophesied Isaiah 53:3.
The point was Jesus wanted to have those would take up their cross and follow him.

4. Numbers 15:22-31; sins of ignorance that had atonement offerings.
was punishing the individuals not the whole nation.
Jesus intention was not to make them reject him because he wanted to save them.
But they were in ignorance and Jesus did say forgive them for they know not what they do.

5. The offer of the KoH was what Jesus proclamation was at hand Matthew 4:17.
Peter saw the signs of the KoH and he knew what the law and prophets said such as Joel Acts 2.
This is that which was spoken not fulfilled.
Acts 2 was a fulfillment of John 1:33 when John the Baptist said he baptized with water but one mightier than he would baptize them with the Holy Ghost.
Joel’s is prophetic to the time of Jacob’s trouble, which is the tribulation Jeremiah 30:7-10, and eventually into the millennial kingdom when creation that is groaning Romans 8:22 will blossom which deals with the early and latter rain Joel 2:23.

6. Acts 3:13-26 was Peter’s response to the healing of the lame man Acts 3:1-12. The people acted like they healed him and Peter said it wasn’t them who healed him but God.
So he goes into about the God of the patriarchs and who glorified his son Jesus who they rejected in the presence of Pilate.
They killed Jesus and God raised him up.
In his name through faith gave the lame man perfect soundness before them.
Peter believes the people were in ignorance as well as the rulers. What was fulfilled was Christ suffering which deals with the cross.
The rest of the chapter is that they should repent and the times of refreshing and restitution and being the children of the prophets and the covenants and the kindreds of the earth being blessed in the seed of Abraham which was Israel.
However, there is time factor he puts as when the times of resting would actually come as being right then.
So yes, Peter knows about the KoH message that will come sooner or later.
This would fall in line with Acts 1:6-7 when the disciples asked Jesus if he was going to restore the KoH right then and he said it was not for them to know what the Father had put in his own power.
Jerry Kelso

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You seem to be agreeing with my points there, alrighty then.

Guojing said:

You seem to be agreeing with my points there, alrighty then.

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guojing,

Alrighty then. Jerry Kelso

Guojing said:

Its indeed remarkable that you don't realized you are also interpreting scripture, and you kept insisting yours is the correct one.

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Do you suggest that God didn't tell Samuel that their desire for an earthly king was a rejection of his reign? What am I misinterpreting about that plain text?

Al Touthentop said:

Do you suggest that God didn't tell Samuel that their desire for an earthly king was a rejection of his reign? What am I misinterpreting about that plain text?

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Jesus was coming to the Jews to be their King, that is the entire basis of the Gospel of the Kingdom.

He was 100% Man and 100% God.

Al Touthentop said:

Do you suggest that God didn't tell Samuel that their desire for an earthly king was a rejection of his reign? What am I misinterpreting about that plain text?

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altouthentop,

1. First of all it was Israel’s desire to have a King which God didn’t want for them but he gave to them because they thought they knew what was best for them instead of God, so Saul became the first King of Israel.
1 Samuel 8:5; Israel said Samuel was old and his sons didn’t walk in his ways and they wanted a king to rule over them like other nations vs 19; 20.

2. Israel did reject God not Samuel 1 Samuel 8:7.
After Saul was David which comes the Davidic Covenant which is the throne of David being forever 2 Samuel 7:13.
V 14; if he commits iniquity God would chasten him with the rod of men and with the stripes of the children of men.
V 15; God’s mercy would not depart from David. God would not take the Davidic covenant of the house and throne forever as he took the throne of Saul.
Verse 16; the house and throne of David would be established forever.

3. 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; v3; God told David who told the people that he would not build the house because he was a man of war and had shed blood.
V 4; The Lord God of Israel chose David to be King of Israel forever.
David wasn’t going to live forever at that time.
Through his seed would come the Davidic throne Isaiah 9:6-7.
Israel’s Abrahamic covenant concerning the land of Israel Genesis 12-15; Isaiah 2:1-4 and the throne are in conjunction with the millennial kingdom reign when creation will be restored Joel 2 and Ezekiel 37:16-28 when Israel and Judah will become one stick and David will be King over Israel v 24 and v 25 and his posterity will be forever.
Read Zechariah 14 where Jesus will return to the Mount of Olives on the Day of the Lord. This is when the Lord will be King over all the earth. Families of the earth have to go to Jerusalem to worship and celebrate the feasts of tabernacles and more which deal with Israel being at the head of nations Isaiah 2:1-4 etc.

4. The gifts and callings are without repentance Romans 11:29. This is because of the promise to David and his house and throne forever.
This covenant is unconditional which means it has to happen.
It is conditioned by sins being taken away by the whole nation Romans 11:25-29 and them being saved by the New Covenant in Christ blood Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-12.

5. Israel has rejected Christ many times because of sin and they were oppressed by many nations such as in Daniel.
But God has always made a way and even though he punished them severely in 70 A.D. Matthew 24:1-2 he will bring them back in the future Romans’ 11:26.

6. Israel’s earthly calling is forever and is connected with the millennial kingdom. It could not have happened at Jesus time because it was prophesied they would reject him.
But it could not have ended there just because the church was ordained because it was an unconditional covenant forever but it will happen at the time of the gentiles Romans 11:25.
This is when the kingdoms of the world will become the kingdoms of the Lord Revelation 11:15.
As far as your question about Samuel the answer I already gave but 2 Samuel 7:13-16 is the answer. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

altouthentop,

2. Israel did reject God not Samuel 1 Samuel 8:7.
After Saul was David which comes the Davidic Covenant which is the throne of David being forever 2 Samuel 7:13.
V 14; if he commits iniquity God would chasten him with the rod of men and with the stripes of the children of men.
V 15; God’s mercy would not depart from David. God would not take the Davidic covenant of the house and throne forever as he took the throne of Saul.
Verse 16; the house and throne of David would be established forever.

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But not by a man.

"Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his (David's) throne."

Peter says that God kept his promise and put Jesus on David's throne.

4. The gifts and callings are without repentance Romans 11:29.

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It says they are irrevocable, not "without repentance". It doesn't absolve anyone of the requirements laid out for salvation. If this were remotely true, then Peter would never have preached repentance to the Jews on the day of Pentecost.

5. Israel has rejected Christ many times because of sin and they were oppressed by many nations such as in Daniel.
But God has always made a way and even though he punished them severely in 70 A.D. Matthew 24:1-2 he will bring them back in the future Romans’ 11:26.

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And now that way is Christ. It is the ONLY way for anyone.

Acts 4:12
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

The only way anyone can be saved is to obey the gospel. Modern Israel does not get a pass in that regard. God KEPT his promise as Peter told the Jews 2000 years ago. Daniel 9 was FULFILLED as was the Davidic Covenant.

6. Israel’s earthly calling is forever and is connected with the millennial kingdom. It could not have happened at Jesus time because it was prophesied they would reject him.
But it could not have ended there just because the church was ordained because it was an unconditional covenant forever but it will happen at the time of the gentiles Romans 11:25.
This is when the kingdoms of the world will become the kingdoms of the Lord Revelation 11:15.
As far as your question about Samuel the answer I already gave but 2 Samuel 7:13-16 is the answer. Jerry Kelso

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There is nowhere in the scriptures that says the physical, earthly kingdom of Israel is forever.[/QUOTE]

Guojing said:

Gospel means good news.

Paul was writing to the Galatians, who are Gentiles, that there is only one gospel FOR THEM, which is his gospel.

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Cite the limiting language that you assert is there. Really that narrative is pretty plainly refuted with simple logic.

The problem he was addressing was that certain Jews were trying to get them to obey the old law. At no time does he say, 'only they must obey the law because Jews must keep to the old law, but not you Gentiles.' And that is what he would HAVE to say of the Jews received a different gospel. Then he goes on to say that the gospel he preached is the gospel Peter preached.

You are again doing an interpretation of all these scripture to make your doctrine that "Peter MUST be preaching the same gospel" in early Acts to the JEWS.

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No I am pointing out the words of scripture and you are lying. Because you know the scriptures well enough to know that Paul never said in Galatians that he was preaching to them a gospel that was different than what was preached to Jews. You intentionally are twisting the scriptures. This isn't just a disagreement about the words that exist on paper, you are adding words. "FOR THEM" is not even implied in the text. This isn't just ignorance. It's intentional twisting and it's based on no textual content, only your wishful thinking.

Peter preached on the day of Pentecost that the Davidic covanent was fulfilled. They killed the king they so longed for because they didn't recognize him and they didn't understand the prophecies.

Al Touthentop said:

Cite the limiting language that you assert is there. Really that narrative is pretty plainly refuted with simple logic.

The problem he was addressing was that certain Jews were trying to get them to obey the old law. At no time does he say, 'only they must obey the law because Jews must keep to the old law, but not you Gentiles.' And that is what he would HAVE to say of the Jews received a different gospel. Then he goes on to say that the gospel he preached is the gospel Peter preached.
.

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He did say it. Paul already stated that in the previous chapter Galatians 2:7-9. You just don't want to acknowledge it, that's all. =)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

James and the elders themselves also said the same thing in Acts 21: v20 and v25. You missed that too?

Guojing said:

He did say it. Paul already stated that in the previous chapter Galatians 2:7-9. You just don't want to acknowledge it, that's all. =)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

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This was not speaking of the content of the gospel but to whom it was preached. You know this.

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

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Try on that word "same" and see if you can find how it means different.

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

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They realized that they were preaching the same gospel and gave them the right hand of fellowship. This person who said he never preached a "different" gospel but the one he was given by Jesus himself.

James and the elders themselves also said the same thing in Acts 21: v20 and v25. You missed that too?

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They said the same thing Paul said, yup.

Al Touthentop said:

But not by a man.

"Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his (David's) throne."

Peter says that God kept his promise and put Jesus on David's throne.



It says they are irrevocable, not "without repentance". It doesn't absolve anyone of the requirements laid out for salvation. If this were remotely true, then Peter would never have preached repentance to the Jews on the day of Pentecost.



And now that way is Christ. It is the ONLY way for anyone.

Acts 4:12
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

The only way anyone can be saved is to obey the gospel. Modern Israel does not get a pass in that regard. God KEPT his promise as Peter told the Jews 2000 years ago. Daniel 9 was FULFILLED as was the Davidic Covenant.



There is nowhere in the scriptures that says the physical, earthly kingdom of Israel is forever.

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[/QUOTE]

altouthentop,

1. Jesus is not on the physical throne of Israel.
To say Jesus is on the throne now is a catholic view of the millennial kingdom.
He told Pilate that his kingdom was not of world. John 18:36

2. David’s throne would be on earth Ezekiel 37:22-25; God will make Israel and Judah one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel and one king shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore at all:
So there will be a physical kingdom on earth where Israel will be one nation cleansed of their sin and they will be God’s people and he will be their God v23.
V24 God is saying and David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd; Israel will walk in God’s judgements and observe his statutes and do them.
Christ is never called David but the son of David.

3. Now I understand the argument about Christ sitting on David’s throne and the house of Jacob etc. Luke 1:32-33. On these scriptures alone seems to be an open and shut case.
However, Christ is never directly called David but the son of David.
Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5 says, David will be the chief under -shepherd of Israel, the whole 13 tribes, under the Messiah.
Christ will be the Chief shepherd Hebrews 13:20; 1 Peter 2:25; 5:4. All of these are spiritual salvation for souls not the physical kingdom.
The 12 apostles will reign over one tribe each under David and the Messiah Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30.
Zechariah 14:9 says the Lord will Be King over all the earth Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Matthew 25:31-46; Luke 1:32-33; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 11:15; 20:1-10.
Christ will set up the Kingdom Zechariah 14.
Christ will teach the house of Jacob his ways and out of Zion the law will go forth from Jerusalem and he shall judge among the nations and the house of Jacob shall walk in his light.
Messiah will reign in righteousness and princes shale rule in judgement. The princes are the saints of all ages that will rule and reign 2 Timothy 2:12, Revelation 5:9-10.
Also David is King Ezekiel 37:24 and a prince v 25. Also. the 12 apostles will be rulers in the Davidic covenant over the 12 Tribes of Israel. This will be on the earth.
Anyway, this proves that their will be an earthly Kingdom on earth.

4. The Day of the Lord is all throughout the Old Testament and the gospels, Thessalonians, and Romans and Revelation etc. for it is the 2 Nd coming of the Lord when he will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all the earth Revelation 19:11-15 when he will take over the kingdoms of this world over Revelation 11:15.

5. Yes, I understand Acts 15 and the spiritual millennial you purport but that is not the millennial kingdom of Revelation 20 which is literal.
Both Abraham and David has components of grace, read Romans 4:1-
6.
No argument on Acts 4:12.

6. Acts 15 salvation did come to salvation but Christ returning after that time to rebuild the physical ruins of David’s tabernacle will not be rebuilt until after the rapture of the church and sets up the millennial kingdom 2Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; Isaiah 2:1-4; 9:6-7; 66:7-10; Ezekiel 37:16-28; Daniel 7:27 Joel 2; Zechariah 14; Revelation 2:25-27; 5:9-10; 11:15; 19:11-17; 20:1-10.

7. Daniel 9:24 has not been fulfilled.
The Messiah was cut off at Calvary but the passage is addressed to the Jewis nation alone concerning the 70 weeks of Daniel.
Yes the New covenant came in but not to the nation of Israel and their earthly calling.
Verse 24 is about the transgressions being finished, making an end of sins, making reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to anoint the most Holy.
This vision and prophecy was sealed up.
It couldn’t have come to pass because it was about all the people of the Jewish nation and the Holy City.
As a complete nation they were destroyed in 70 A. D. Matthew 24:1-2.
1948 Israel became a nation and they are still backslidden as a whole nation but many are looking for Messiah.
It is not till the restitution of all things that it will happen which will begin with the millennial kingdom and Israel. This is what Peter was talking about in Acts 3:19-21.
The most Holy is about the cleansing of the temple, the city of Jerusalem and the Holy of Holies Ezekiel 40-43; Zechariah 6:12-13. The most Holy was not used of a man or the Messiah either one.
It doesn’t refer to man crowning Christ for God has already done this Luke 22/29; Acts 1:7; 2:36; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 11:15; 19:11-21;Daniel 7:13-14.

8. Yes it is true that Hebrews 9:15 said the transgressions of the first testament was what Christ died for but that has nothing to with Daniel’s 70th week and the restoration of the nation which will happen in the millennial kingdom on the Day of the Lord Joel 2 and Malachi 4:5 etc.
This also did not fulfill Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Romans 11:25-29; or Hebrews 8;7-12.

9. Romans 11:29 does say without repentance which means they are irrevocable because they have to come to pass.
This is why they are enemies of us in the gospel today but, beloved for the father’s sake.
There will be a physical kingdom that will be spiritual in nature called a full theocratic government of the Messiah on earth in the future. Jerry Kelso

altouthentop,

1. Jesus is not on the physical throne of Israel.
[/quote]

There never was a physical throne. David's authority and kingdom came from God. Peter preached on the day of Pentecost that Jesus was given David's throne. The Davidic Covenant was fulfilled. It was this revelation to the Jews in Jerusalem that day which made them realize they had killed the very king they had been looking for. ALL of the prophecies about the new kingdom were fulfilled.

Al Touthentop said:

altouthentop,

1. Jesus is not on the physical throne of Israel.

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There never was a physical throne. David's authority and kingdom came from God. Peter preached on the day of Pentecost that Jesus was given David's throne. The Davidic Covenant was fulfilled. It was this revelation to the Jews in Jerusalem that day which made them realize they had killed the very king they had been looking for. ALL of the prophecies about the new kingdom were fulfilled.[/QUOTE]

altouthentop,

1. Where are your specific scriptures and context as evidence?

jerry kelso said:

There never was a physical throne. David's authority and kingdom came from God. Peter preached on the day of Pentecost that Jesus was given David's throne. The Davidic Covenant was fulfilled. It was this revelation to the Jews in Jerusalem that day which made them realize they had killed the very king they had been looking for. ALL of the prophecies about the new kingdom were fulfilled.

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altouthentop,

1. Where are your specific scriptures and context as evidence?

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The one's I've already quoted. Do I need to repeat myself? Peter told them that Jesus was given David's throne. It was God's throne in the first place.

Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his [David's] throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32T his Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

34“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’

36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

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