If I have the Respect of every Creature, I have the respect of Evolution?

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Tanj

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Hi there,

So I am just wondering: if I have the Respect of every Creature, I have the respect of Evolution?

Nothing is missing?

What would help me tell, if one thing or another was going to help?

Thanks,
G

Absolutely, so off you go and don't come back to this forum until you have the verifiable respect of each of the 1 million billion ants in the world.

Then start on the bees.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Untestable and unprovable "hypothesis" right now, would be much more accurate...
As a hypothesis, i.e. an explanation for observed phenomena, it's completely useless. A good explanation should give a deeper understanding of a particular phenomenon. An explanation that can explain anything and everything explains nothing in particular. An explanation that raises more questions than it answers - particularly unanswerable questions, explains nothing. An explanation that introduces unnecessary entities is redundant.

If you think it's a viable hypothesis, explain to me how 'God-did-it' is a better hypothesis than 'Its magic'. Handy criteria to judge by are testabillity, successful predictions, explanatory power, parsimony, and coherence with existing knowledge.
 
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Neogaia777

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As a hypothesis, i.e. an explanation for observed phenomena, it's completely useless. A good explanation should give a deeper understanding of a particular phenomenon. An explanation that can explain anything and everything explains nothing in particular. An explanation that raises more questions than it answers - particularly unanswerable questions, explains nothing. An explanation that introduces unnecessary entities is redundant.

If you think it's a viable hypothesis, explain to me how 'God-did-it' is a better hypothesis than 'Its magic'. Handy criteria to judge by are testabillity, successful predictions, explanatory power, parsimony, and coherence with existing knowledge.
As if you don't rely on "hypothesis" sometimes, or scientists don't, etc...

Anyway, many of things we now know today, most of them all started out as "hypothesis"....

And if you asking me to "explain God" and "how God did it", other than creating the "processes" that we see and observe, then I can't do that for you sorry... it does, and may always take some small measure of "faith" maybe, etc... Until it can be tested and proven, etc... and/but many people started out by putting some measure of "faith" and their own ideas and "hypothesis" that later on turned out to true, etc...

And that's all I can give or offer you right now, sorry...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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You guys who are skeptics and who are atheists...

Do you think all of this is "just all random chaos" with "no order to it all"...? or rhyme or reason for it or to it at all...? or does it indicate "order", and therefore "design", and therefore a "designer" or "maker" or "orderer" or "creator", maker, etc...?

Do you think there is "intelligence" behind it at all...? and if so, who or what would you call that intelligence or designer or whatever...? "Programmer" possibly, etc...?

What would you call it/Him, cause I call it/Him "God"...

Or if you believe it was made and/or created for a "purpose", a "purposer", etc...

Cause I believe all these things, etc...

It's what I see when I look at "everything", etc...

I do not see "chaos" or "random chaos", but the "complete opposite of that", etc... I see order and design, and therefore a "designer, maker, orderer, creator, programmer, purposer, etc, etc, etc... I see, and I think it's pretty clear to see, "intelligence" or a consciousness, involved and/or behind it all, etc...

But since it takes some small measure of "faith" to believe that "right now", your probably not going to believe it anyway...

I also believe that "apparent errors or imperfections" are not actually errors or imperfections either, or as well, etc, but that all is and always was, is and will be, etc, by "design", etc...

It doesn't take "that much faith" either to believe "this" that I am saying, or "that" that I am proposing, etc... Faith the size of a mustard seed or grain will do, but I guess I don't expect you guys to believe it, etc...

God Bless!
 
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VirOptimus

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You guys who are skeptics and who are atheists...

Do you think all of this is "just all random chaos" with "no order to it all"...? or rhyme or reason for it or to it at all...? or does it indicate "order", and therefore "design", and therefore a "designer" or "maker" or "orderer" or "creator", maker, etc...?

Do you think there is "intelligence" behind it at all...? and if so, who or what would you call that intelligence or designer or whatever...? "Programmer" possibly, etc...?

What would you call it/Him, cause I call it/Him "God"...

Or if you believe it was made and/or created for a "purpose", a "purposer", etc...

Cause I believe all these things, etc...

It's what I see when I look at "everything", etc...

I do not see "chaos" or "random chaos", but the "complete opposite of that", etc... I see order and design, and therefore a "designer, maker, orderer, creator, programmer, purposer, etc, etc, etc... I see, and I think it's pretty clear to see, "intelligence" or a consciousness, involved and/or behind it all, etc...

But since it takes some small measure of "faith" to believe that "right now", your probably not going to believe it anyway...

I also believe that "apparent errors or imperfections" are not actually errors or imperfections either, or as well, etc, but that all is and always was, is and will be, etc, by "design", etc...

It doesn't take "that much faith" either to believe "this" that I am saying, or "that" that I am proposing, etc... Faith the size of a mustard seed or grain will do, but I guess I don't expect you guys to believe it, etc...

God Bless!

If all you wanna do is preach there are parts of the site for that, this is however not one of them.
 
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Freodin

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You guys who are skeptics and who are atheists...

Do you think all of this is "just all random chaos" with "no order to it all"...? or rhyme or reason for it or to it at all...? or does it indicate "order", and therefore "design", and therefore a "designer" or "maker" or "orderer" or "creator", maker, etc...?
Ah, see, that's where you go wrong. That's where you creationists always go wrong, regardless of how many times it is explained to you.

It's not "just all random chaos" and "no order to it all". And neither is it "design".

It's very simple:
If we start from some very basic assumptions, we will end right here.
- replication
- mutation
- limitation of resources
- natural selection

This will resort in "order"... a vast, diverse range of "order" in fact. And nowhere in this process is a "designer, maker, orderer, creator" needed.

You can continue to argue for your "hypothesis" as long as you like... but after all this time, you should at least know what you are arguing against.
 
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Neogaia777

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That's where you creationists always go wrong

I'm not a "creationist" in the typical sense, I believe pretty much the same thing you guys believe, just with a creator or designer, master orchestrator, maker, etc, etc, etc...

See this thread here: Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

The first post and post #29 are the most important ones, but all my posts in that thread are important, etc...

Also my posts in this thread as well: Millennials Turn Away From Creationism

You can continue to argue for your "hypothesis" as long as you like... but after all this time, you should at least know what you are arguing against.

Yes I do, the stupidity is very apparent... Ignorance, arrogance, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Freodin

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I'm not a "creationist" in the typical sense, I believe pretty much the same thing you guys believe, just with a creator or designer, master orchestrator, maker, etc, etc, etc...
Which is what makes you a "creationist". It doesn't matter where, when or what you think this "creator" "created"... you believe that it did. Hence: creationist.

Yes I do, the stupidity is very apparent... Ignorance, arrogance, etc...

God Bless!
Why, thank you!

See, this is exactly the point I was trying to make.
You did, I give you that, ask a question. I won't comment on how sincere I think this question was... but at least you asked it.
But when you are given a response... and this is not a new response, or something that you would not have heard a thousand times before in that context... you go on to ignore it and start talking about "ignorance" and "arrogance".

Well, I agree that these two terms are very relevant here. You might want to consider this relevance for your position.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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As if you don't rely on "hypothesis" sometimes, or scientists don't, etc...

Anyway, many of things we now know today, most of them all started out as "hypothesis"....
Making and testing hypotheses has a key role in science - but so does assessing and ranking them according to the criteria for finding the best explanation. There are good hypotheses and bad hypotheses, and it seems to me that your God hypothesis is just a placeholder for a lack of a good hypothesis. Can you refute that?

And if you asking me to "explain God" and "how God did it", other than creating the "processes" that we see and observe, then I can't do that for you sorry...
But the point of a hypothesis is that helps us understand the observed phenomena because it has some explanatory power, which makes your God hypothesis pointless.

... it does, and may always take some small measure of "faith" maybe, etc... Until it can be tested and proven, etc... and/but many people started out by putting some measure of "faith" and their own ideas and "hypothesis" that later on turned out to true, etc...

And that's all I can give or offer you right now, sorry...
You don't have to apologise to me, I was already aware of the issue.

I notice you didn't answer my question; if you can't say in what respect your God hypothesis is, by reasonable criteria, any better than the hypothesis that 'Puff the Magic Dragon did it', that should give you pause for thought.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Yes I do, the stupidity is very apparent... Ignorance, arrogance, etc...
Oh, the irony! You propose a hypothesis that has no explanatory value and suggest that the apparent errors and imperfections in the world are intentional, then call alternative ideas stupid, ignorant, and arrogant... I guess that speaks for itself.

So can you tell us precisely what you find to be stupid, ignorant, and arrogant, or is it just anything contrary to your beliefs?
 
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Lobster Johnson

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You mean "this world" correct...? And is that worth more than his eternal soul...?

Good point. Better throw in the moon, too!


Though really, it's more of a flowery aphorism about not giving up something in exchange for something of lesser value. 'Never pay more for an acquisition than you have to,' one might say.

Though I think it is often twisted in order to justify keeping people down, putting them 'in their place' (which is always under the speaker's heel in some way), convincing people not to make efforts to better their own lives but instead perpetuate a state of affairs that is more beneficial to the speaker.

Not sure why it came up in this thread though. As if the 'respect of evolution', if such a thing were possible, carries some kind of dangerous cost?

I can only imagine that it makes sense to those who don't understand evolution.
 
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Neogaia777

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I'm not a "creationist" in the typical sense, I believe pretty much the same thing you guys believe, just with a creator or designer, master orchestrator, maker, etc, etc, etc...

See this thread here: Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

The first post and post #29 are the most important ones, but all my posts in that thread are important, etc...

Also my posts in this thread as well: Millennials Turn Away From Creationism



Yes I do, the stupidity is very apparent... Ignorance, arrogance, etc...

God Bless!
@All

First off, I did not say you guys were stupid, but only that the idea or working off the assumption that there is no God is foolish and stupid, like scripture says, (Psalms 14:1, Psalms 53:1)...

And that He (God) can be clearly seen in what is made, or things that were made and/or exist, etc, (Romans 1:20), and how much more so is that true "today", etc...

To work of the assumption that there is no mind or intelligence behind it all, is foolish, and, sorry to say, "stupid", etc...

When it is very clear to people like me that there "has to be", etc...

Like I said, it's not all "random chaos", etc... It has order and therefore design, etc, therefore an orderer or designer, etc...

Now I don't blame some of you for not believing in a God, or for not believing that there is or has to be a "God", or God-like being, because of some "other people", and the way that they have presented the idea of a "God" to you, etc, I don't blame you at all for that, etc, but, that makes your opinion and assumption that there is no God, "bias", does it not...? And you have let "them" make you think that, have you not...?

So don' have any bias(es) due to "them", and then tell me what you "truly think and see", etc... Do you see that there has to be intelligence, or an intelligence behind it, etc...? Or not, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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First off, I did not say you guys were stupid, but only that the idea or working off the assumption that there is no God is foolish and stupid, like scripture says, (Psalms 14:1, Psalms 53:1)...

And that He (God) can be clearly seen in what is made, or things that were made and/or exist, etc, (Romans 1:20), and how much more so is that true "today", etc...

To work of the assumption that there is no mind or intelligence behind it all, is foolish, and, sorry to say, "stupid", etc...

When it is very clear to people like me that there "has to be", etc...

Like I said, it's not all "random chaos", etc... It has order and therefore design, etc, therefore an orderer or designer, etc...

Now I don't blame some of you for not believing in a God, or for not believing that there is or has to be a "God", or God-like being, because of some "other people", and the way that they have presented the idea of a "God" to you, etc, I don't blame you at all for that, etc, but, that makes your opinion and assumption that there is no God, "bias", does it not...? And you have let "them" make you think that, have you not...?

So don' have any bias(es) due to "them", and then tell me what you "truly think and see", etc... Do you see that there has to be intelligence, or an intelligence behind it, etc...? Or not, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
@All

And if you get to the point that you are completely unbiased and say that there has to some sort of "God" or intelligence behind it all, etc, then I can tell you more about Him or that One, and how that One differs from both God in the OT and Jesus Christ, and how God in the OT, was not the Highest Father God Jesus spoke of, but is the Holy Spirit, which gets into talking about the "true Trinity", etc... God in three different forms or "levels", etc...

And I can tell you what "hell" really truly is and is all about, etc... and that it is for people who stay here and never ever go beyond this ever, or were ever meant to go beyond this, etc, and that, that, is all of/or what hell truly is, etc, or is what being or staying "eternally tormented in hell" really is, etc...

And I can tell you how the creation account perfectly lines up with evolution, etc, and how one of the Highest Father God's "days" is meant to represent very, very long periods of time, etc, epochs or entire long ages, etc...

I can tell you all kinds of things, all kinds of truths that many people do not, and/or have not ever considered before, etc, that just makes everything "click", etc, and fall in line and into place, etc...

And none of it will contradict what you already know or know in your heart is true or is "the truth", etc...

And many of those "other people" I talked about will accuse me of "blasphemy" because of it, etc, but I swear to you it is the truth, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Freodin

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First off, I did not say you guys were stupid, but only that the idea or working off the assumption that there is no God is foolish and stupid, like scripture says, (Psalms 14:1, Psalms 53:1)...

And that He (God) can be clearly seen in what is made, or things that were made and/or exist, etc, (Romans 1:20), and how much more so is that true "today", etc...

To work of the assumption that there is no mind or intelligence behind it all, is foolish, and, sorry to say, "stupid", etc...

When it is very clear to people like me that there "has to be", etc...

Like I said, it's not all "random chaos", etc... It has order and therefore design, etc, therefore an orderer or designer, etc...

Now I don't blame some of you for not believing in a God, or for not believing that there is or has to be a "God", or God-like being, because of some "other people", and the way that they have presented the idea of a "God" to you, etc, I don't blame you at all for that, etc, but, that makes your opinion and assumption that there is no God, "bias", does it not...? And you have let "them" make you think that, have you not...?

So don' have any bias(es) due to "them", and then tell me what you "truly think and see", etc... Do you see that there has to be intelligence, or an intelligence behind it, etc...? Or not, etc...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
As I thought... you don't listen. It's very telling that you chose one of your own posts to quote. Because you don't even bother to address any post that has been made to respond to you.

You ask a question, you get an answer... and you ignore it. That's... not very communicative.

Perhaps for the sake of not misleading those who try to communicate with you, you should stop asking questions and just resort to calling our positions "stupid".
 
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Neogaia777

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As I thought... you don't listen. It's very telling that you chose one of your own posts to quote. Because you don't even bother to address any post that has been made to respond to you.

You ask a question, you get an answer... and you ignore it. That's... not very communicative.

Perhaps for the sake of not misleading those who try to communicate with you, you should stop asking questions and just resort to calling our positions "stupid".
I read all of your guys posts, and took them all in, etc, and instead of trying to respond to all of you each individually, I chose to respond to you all with one post, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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As I thought... you don't listen. It's very telling that you chose one of your own posts to quote. Because you don't even bother to address any post that has been made to respond to you.

You ask a question, you get an answer... and you ignore it. That's... not very communicative.

Perhaps for the sake of not misleading those who try to communicate with you, you should stop asking questions and just resort to calling our positions "stupid".
And I was also talking about the "stupidity" around me "in general" as well, including many of my "supposedly fellow Christians" and" supposedly fellow believers", etc, that was or has colored or biased or negatively influenced many of your guy's opinions and thoughts and/or ideas about "God" and/or your perceptions, as well, K...

So, try not to take it too personally OK...?

I was talking about many, many others as well, etc...

Or what I might call the "insanity" around me in general as well, K...

And in fact, I came over here and decided to talk to you guys, cause I thought you might be more "reasonable" than they (are), K...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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