Where Arminianism Fails.

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Dave L

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Paul speaks of "hearing with faith" (ESV), other translations say "believing what you heard" (NIV). Although a message is implicit Paul does not speak of this "word" and his focus is on the hearer and then believer. Your version removes the focus from "hearer" and places it on the parts unwritten and not focused on calling it the Spirit. What gives you such liberties to pry open scripture and say "what he really meant was..."

I know you have an allergy to all things remotely similar to pentecostalism and so defend only polar reverse but eventually, it starts sounding like the bias.
Why do all hear the same gospel where some simply believe without choosing to? Or others hear it as law and turn it into works, while others reject it?
 
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renniks

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With monergistic salvation, God does the saving once for all. He cannot lose those whom He saves. He allows none to snatch them from the Shepherd's hand. He completes the work which He begins.
You cannot be in and out of God's kingdom. You are either destined for it or not. Nothing will seperate God's children from their Father. Especially the children themselves since the Father is saving them from themselves.
Belief precedes salvation. The answer to "What must I do to be saved?" is "Believe on the Lord Jesus." It's not "God will save you if he wants to, don't do anything.
 
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renniks

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No, it's about believers being confused. God must save a person before they can believe at a saved level. But Arminianism teaches we must save ourselves through obedience. So in essence, many believe (are saved by God) but think they must choose to believe (redundant) and this is a type of repentance that leads to true repentance.
Gooblygook. Scripture teaches: Belief first, then God saves you. Armianism does not teach that believera save themselves.. for the 112 time.
 
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Dave L

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Gooblygook. Scripture teaches: Belief first, then God saves you. Armianism does not teach that believera save themselves.. for the 112 time.
Scripture teaches Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
 
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Mountainmanbob

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What does it mean that God draws us to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What does it mean that God draws us to salvation?"

Answer:
The clearest verse on God’s drawing to salvation is John 6:44 where Jesus declares that “no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” The Greek word translated “draw” is helkuo, which means “to drag” (literally or figuratively). Clearly, this drawing is a one-sided affair. God does the drawing to salvation; we who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but the drawing itself is all on His part.

Helkuo is used in John 21:6 to refer to a heavy net full of fish being dragged to the shore. In John 18:10 we see Peter drawing his sword, and in Acts 16:19 ((( helkuo is used ))) to describe Paul and Silas being ((( dragged ))) into the marketplace before the rulers. Clearly, the net had no part in its being drawn to the shore, Peter’s sword had no part in being drawn, and Paul and Silas did not drag themselves to the marketplace.
 
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renniks

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Scripture teaches Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
Scripture teaches that faith comes by hearing the word and accepting it. Romans 10:17 Yes, the Spirit awakens us, be we can certainly resist.
"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Acts 7:51
 
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Dave L

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Scripture teaches that faith comes by hearing the word and accepting it. Romans 10:17 Yes, the Spirit awakens us, be we can certainly resist.
"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Acts 7:51
The Word is Spirit and it's foolishness to all not born again.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
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renniks

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The Word is Spirit and it's foolishness to all not born again.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
Again, grace is offered to all. Once one is awakened, he either resists or responds. Do you think God doesn't care about most people? Do you think he never convicts them at all in their whole lives? Have you never seen someone under conviction fight it?
 
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Dave L

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Again, grace is offered to all. Once one is awakened, he either resists or responds. Do you think God doesn't care about most people? Do you think he never convicts them at all in their whole lives? Have you never seen someone under conviction fight it?
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48 (KJV 1900)
 
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renniks

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“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48 (KJV 1900)
As many as were ordained to eternal life – St. Luke does not say fore – ordained. He is not speaking of what was done from eternity, but of what was then done, through the preaching of the Gospel. He is describing that ordination, and that only, which was at the very time of hearing it. During this sermon those believed, says the apostle, to whom God then gave power to believe. It is as if he had said, “They believed, whose hearts the Lord opened;” as he expresses it in a clearly parallel place, speaking of the same kind of ordination, Acts 16:14, &c. It is observable, the original word is not once used in Scripture to express eternal predestination of any kind. The sum is, all those and those only, who were now ordained, now believed. Not that God rejected the rest: it was his will that they also should have been saved: but they thrust salvation from them. Nor were they who then believed constrained to believe. But grace was then first copiously offered them. And they did not thrust it away, so that a great multitude even of Gentiles were converted. In a word, the expression properly implies, a present operation of Divine grace working faith in the hearers. (Wesley)
 
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Dave L

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As many as were ordained to eternal life – St. Luke does not say fore – ordained. He is not speaking of what was done from eternity, but of what was then done, through the preaching of the Gospel. He is describing that ordination, and that only, which was at the very time of hearing it. During this sermon those believed, says the apostle, to whom God then gave power to believe. It is as if he had said, “They believed, whose hearts the Lord opened;” as he expresses it in a clearly parallel place, speaking of the same kind of ordination, Acts 16:14, &c. It is observable, the original word is not once used in Scripture to express eternal predestination of any kind. The sum is, all those and those only, who were now ordained, now believed. Not that God rejected the rest: it was his will that they also should have been saved: but they thrust salvation from them. Nor were they who then believed constrained to believe. But grace was then first copiously offered them. And they did not thrust it away, so that a great multitude even of Gentiles were converted. In a word, the expression properly implies, a present operation of Divine grace working faith in the hearers. (Wesley)
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)
 
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Faith is a gift from the Father Doing As He Pleases.

He can save an "A" today, and a "C" tomorrow if He wants to, eh?

Or neither? Jesus said or asked if He would find faith on earth when He Returns, right?


To some God gives faith...and as to the Father pleasure, they are saved. They are the elect chosen from before the world was made.
 
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royal priest

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Belief precedes salvation. The answer to "What must I do to be saved?" is "Believe on the Lord Jesus." It's not "God will save you if he wants to, don't do anything.
"Without Me you can do nothing" John 15:5
Jesus is the vine. We are only the branches.
 
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renniks

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“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 (KJV 1900)
And how does the father give them to him?
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

This puts the responsibility on man to learn from the Father and to listen. Why do you think Jesus keeps telling them, in essence, to put on their ears?
 
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renniks

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"Without Me you can do nothing" John 15:5
Jesus is the vine. We are only the branches.
You are switching to believers now, not how to be saved. Different topic.
But, since you brought it up, he also says you have to remain in the vine or you will be cut off, as opposed to once saved, always saved.
 
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Dave L

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And how does the father give them to him?
45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

This puts the responsibility on man to learn from the Father and to listen. Why do you think Jesus keeps telling them, in essence, to put on their ears?
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
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