Joe Biden denied Holy Communion at South Carolina Church

Michie said:

Probably not. I do not expect any support for the priest that did the right thing.

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not Earthly support from politicians, but plenty of reward in Heaven.

Best choice is to follow the example of Christ:
choose what is right,
accept the lash and the Cross,
and wait for Easter.

I heard a priest in a close diocese say a few years ago, if you vote for pro-abortion politicians to not come for communion.

Then I have our former priest that seemed to really like the liberal side, and probably voted mostly democrat - almost certainly for Hillary as he hated Trump.

So I look at my wife and say - we have a guy giving communion that another priest says should not even be receiving it.

Bless this priest that had the stones to deny Biden. But the Catholic climate today does not support such truth much.

Markie Boy said:

I heard a priest in a close diocese say a few years ago, if you vote for pro-abortion politicians to not come for communion.

Then I have our former priest that seemed to really like the liberal side, and probably voted mostly democrat - almost certainly for Hillary as he hated Trump.

So I look at my wife and say - we have a guy giving communion that another priest says should not even be receiving it.

Bless this priest that had the stones to deny Biden. But the Catholic climate today does not support such truth much.

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What is also true is that today as never before there is a greater, clearer difference between what is wrong and what is right.

Michie said:

Quid Pro Joe is One Lucky Duck

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I have a question: is it a Catholic view that instead of regulating alcohol sales or sex outside of marriage with public secular laws, that instead, we should seek to convert people to Christ in order that through Him, over time through the sacraments, they be conformed to follow Him and be changed in that way?

In other words, that a Catholic wouldn't seek to establish a public secular (not church) law to outlaw something like adultery, because sin isn't controlled in reality by public laws, but instead by conversion?

I'm asking to better understand the Catholic view.

Catholicism should seek to accomplish change through conversion. And if actually followed that is what it does.

Biden does not live it. In the early Church he probably would have been more than denied communion, he would have just not been allowed in. Today we'd call that excommunicated.

Conversion is what we strive for.

Persistent rejection of conversion - which is what these politicians do - should be answered with excommunication.

I say if the USCCB wanted to regain any chance of being respected, they should start excommunicating the pro-abortion and pro-same sex marriage politicians.

Halbhh said:

I have a question: is it a Catholic view that instead of regulating alcohol sales or sex outside of marriage with public secular laws, that instead, we should seek to convert people to Christ in order that through Him, over time through the sacraments, they be conformed to follow Him and be changed in that way?

In other words, that a Catholic wouldn't seek to establish a public secular (not church) law to outlaw something like adultery, because sin isn't controlled in reality by public laws, but instead by conversion?

I'm asking to better understand the Catholic view.

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Interesting question. And the reality is very complex because there is no hard and fast answer. It is a matter of prudential judgment, not of hard and fast law.

Remember back when contraception was illegal in this country? The Comstock Laws? They were put in place by Protestants back when Catholics had about zero political clout. And what do Protestants say about contraception now? The best thing since sliced bread? So what good did the Comstock Laws actually do?

And then there are the Blair Laws, designed specifically to limit Catholics from being able to educate Catholic children in Catholic schools. Protestants have been really good at making laws.

Point is not everything needs to have a law to enforce morality. Puritanism runs deep in America, and the making illegal of almost everything has not been a blessing. Some things DO need to be illegal. But not everything.

chevyontheriver said:

And what do Protestants say about contraception now?

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I don't even know actually. It never gets discussed seems like. Of course, sex outside of marriage, those kinds of youthful and ordinary sins like that (just one, not the other big one) of King David (ok , David was worse than just average when he did sin, admittedly)...are frowned on, and generally you know you'd hear in most that sex outside of marriage is wrong. So, that means you are asking about contraception inside of marriage sounds like? And I've just not heard it discussed. I cannot even guess whether protestants I know use it, though we might hazard a guesstimation on the basis of family size that most couples married through 15 years of fertile age without having a dozen children....must be using contraceptives? I don't know. What do you think? That kind of guessing is chancy, but would seem to suggest the overwhelming majority might be in most churches (Catholic also?), or else only have sex once in a blue moon.

chevyontheriver said:

And what do Protestants say about contraception now? The best thing since sliced bread? So what good did the Comstock Laws actually do

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My family is still protestant and they're fine with contraception. My sister, who's been married four years now, is on it because they don't want to have kids for a couple more years. They know how I feel about it though. At least they're not pro-choice. Well... not pro-abortion, but I don't think they realize how contraception falls under the pro-choice umbrella.

I don't know of any protestant group that discourages, much less forbids, contraception.

O what I would give to have a society again that outlawed abortion and contraception. Anyone want to join me in taking over Canada and establishing a Catholic monarchy?

The huge majority of all "Christians" in the US use contraception.

The Comstock Law is a great example of the shift in thinking and practice. I know my old Baptist pastor had no issue with birth control, not sure where he stood on things that could cause abortion like the pill.

Catholicism still has the teaching, but does not teach it much. I called our old priest to the carpet some this and got no answer - like crickets chirping.

But we do have the foundation.

Fenwick said:

Anyone want to join me in taking over Canada and establishing a Catholic monarchy?

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You mean to make Quebec what God intended all along? I kinda like the idea.

Halbhh said:

I don't even know actually. It never gets discussed seems like.

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I'm going to presume, which can sometimes be dangerous, that contraception is assumed by them to not be any sort of moral problem. You coud ask your people that question tomorrow.

Of course, sex outside of marriage, those kinds of youthful and ordinary sins like that (just one, not the other big one) of King David (ok , David was worse than just average when he did sin, admittedly)...are frowned on, and generally you know you'd hear in most that sex outside of marriage is wrong.

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David was an adulterer and a murderer. Those shouldn't be considered ordinary at all.

So, that means you are asking about contraception inside of marriage sounds like? And I've just not heard it discussed. I cannot even guess whether protestants I know use it, though we might hazard a guesstimation on the basis of family size that most couples married through 15 years of fertile age without having a dozen children....must be using contraceptives? I don't know. What do you think? That kind of guessing is chancy, but would seem to suggest the overwhelming majority might be in most churches (Catholic also?), or else only have sex once in a blue moon.

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I wasn't trying to get a polling of all of your friends and neighbors and congregants were doing about contracepting but what Protestants actually taught about it. Of course I know that all but the rarest type of Protestant denominations teach that contraception is just fine. Ninety years ago ALL Protestants opposed contraception as immoral, as did the Orthodox and the Catholic Church.

But that was part of the larger point that it was Protestants who got the Comstock Laws passed, and what good did that actually do when Protestants now have adopted contraception as acceptable? We can make laws all we want, but if we don't have hearts and minds what good does it do?

Markie Boy said:

But we do have the foundation.

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That. And some of us do follow the teaching. Just to be contrarian of course.

Yes - I know of several couples that follow the teaching. They are rare, but are around.

Michie said:

The Duggars.

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I thought they were Babtists.