BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

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mmksparbud

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Dear Lady: The entire groaning creation will join the groaning redeemed with grateful sobs of Holy>>>>Holy>>>>Holy.

The whole of created life SHALL BE delivered

Not what the bible teaches.
 
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Saint Steven

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Ain't universalism great. The scriptures just keep yielding up one pearl after another, and lighting our path on the correct usage of terms like death, judgment and punishment. The damnationists hang on stubbornly to their carnal interpretations, but what good is a brick to a drowning man? The spirit gives life!
Amen to that!
I just found a link to this entire Forgotten Gospel Conference. The first video about the Gospel in Chairs is amazing. As are several other sessions that I have already viewed.


Brad Jersak - The Gospel in Chairs - Session 1 (FGC 2016)
Credits: Forgotten Gospel Conference - www.theforgottengospel.com

Brad Jersak is an author and teacher based in Abbotsford, BC, where he attends Fresh Wind Christian Fellowship and serves as Reader at All Saints of North America Monastery. His heart is to share the good news that God is Love and that God’s love was shown to us perfectly in Jesus of Nazareth. Through his books and seminars, Brad teaches that anyone can learn to hear God’s voice through the simple practice of ”listening prayer.” Those who practice listening prayer find that God’s love heals wounded hearts and empowers them to heal this broken world.

Brad Jersak’s foundational book, “Can You Hear Me? Tuning in to the God who speaks” trains readers in the ways of “Listening Prayer.” This book provides biblical teaching and 33 practical exercises for tuning in to God’s voice.
 
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FineLinen

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Not what the bible teaches.

That is precisely what the Bible teaches!


“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself :That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”
 
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FineLinen

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"All around us we observe a pregnant creation. The difficult times of pain throughout the world are simply birth pangs. But it’s not only around us; it’s within us. The Spirit of God is arousing us within. We’re also feeling the birth pangs. These sterile and barren bodies of ours are yearning for full deliverance. That is why waiting does not diminish us, any more than waiting diminishes a pregnant mother. We are enlarged in the waiting. We, of course, don’t see what is enlarging us. But the longer we wait, the larger we become, and the more joyful our expectancy.

Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God’s Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don’t know how or what to pray, it doesn’t matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans.

He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. That’s why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.

God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun." -The Message-
 
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FineLinen

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Not what the bible teaches.

Dear Girl: You & every one of us must experience ephphatha.

"For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
 
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Saint Steven

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That is precisely what the Bible teaches!


“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself :That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”
I think this is the reference on that. (emphasis mine)

Ephesians 1:5-10
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillmentto bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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Amen to that!
I just found a link to this entire Forgotten Gospel Conference. The first video about the Gospel in Chairs is amazing. As are several other sessions that I have already viewed.


Brad Jersak - The Gospel in Chairs - Session 1 (FGC 2016)
Credits: Forgotten Gospel Conference - www.theforgottengospel.com

Brad Jersak is an author and teacher based in Abbotsford, BC, where he attends Fresh Wind Christian Fellowship and serves as Reader at All Saints of North America Monastery. His heart is to share the good news that God is Love and that God’s love was shown to us perfectly in Jesus of Nazareth. Through his books and seminars, Brad teaches that anyone can learn to hear God’s voice through the simple practice of ”listening prayer.” Those who practice listening prayer find that God’s love heals wounded hearts and empowers them to heal this broken world.

Brad Jersak’s foundational book, “Can You Hear Me? Tuning in to the God who speaks” trains readers in the ways of “Listening Prayer.” This book provides biblical teaching and 33 practical exercises for tuning in to God’s voice.

Yea, I've listened to a lot of his teachings on YT. I think he got the gospel in chairs from Brian Zahnd, who if you haven't heard is well worth it. Especially his older teachings when he was really fired up.
brian zahnd sinners in the hands of a loving god - YouTube
 
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Der Alte

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<SM>Ain't universalism great. The scriptures just keep yielding up one pearl after another, and lighting our path on the correct usage of terms like death, judgment and punishment. The damnationists hang on stubbornly to their carnal interpretations, but what good is a brick to a drowning man? The spirit gives life!<SM>
The false hope of universalism and its proponents keep posting their out-of-context proof texts and adamantly ignoring the rest of the Bible.
 
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Lazarus Short

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YOU ARE NOT EVEN SEEING WHAT THE VERSES SAY!

In the world of the internet forum, the above is known as a sidestep, and in this case as usual, what I brought up was not dealt with. I don't suppose I would do any better if I did find the verses you keep demanding.
 
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FineLinen

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In the world of the internet forum, the above is known as a sidestep, and in this case as usual, what I brought up was not dealt with. I don't suppose I would do any better if I did find the verses you keep demanding.

Yup!


iu
 
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FineLinen

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I think this is the reference on that. (emphasis mine)

Ephesians 1:5-10
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillmentto bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

"Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we’re a free people—free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds.

And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free!

He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.

It’s in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone." -The Message
 
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Der Alte

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I think this is the reference on that. (emphasis mine)
Ephesians 1:5-10
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
But what you do not have is even one verse, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, or Jesus Himself, states unequivocally that they will "bring to unity all things in heaven and earth, including the unrighteous even if they died in sin." or words to that effect?
You failed to read the verses by the same author, Paul, which say many people have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:10-11
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:4-5
(4) Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
(5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Do you suppose Paul forgot what he wrote in Eph 1:5-10 when he wrote Eph 5:4-5, in the same book. and these other verses 1 Cor 6:10-11 and Gal 5:19-21.
 
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Rick Otto

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If the unsaved are ash and remain so forever, then how can this be: "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." I Timothy 4:10, KJV

Your "The wicked are ashes!" and I Timothy 4:10 cannot both be true, and I Timothy 4:10 is true.

How do you propose to get around the verse I quoted? Since they actually agree, how do you now propose to get around Revelation 21:24?
I think we can understand " who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe" to mean that though His saving grace is sufficient, it isn't applied to unbelievers.
 
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FineLinen

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I think we can understand " who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe" to mean that though His saving grace is sufficient, it isn't applied to unbelievers.

Dear Rick: God is NOT a potential Saviour of all mankind, He IS Saviour. His love & grace indeed are sufficient, it is applied to ALL mankind, the malista and the pas.

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension bowing IN the Name in worship
 
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Rick Otto

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Have you read Augustine's justifications of eternal punishment in City of God XXI? When Augustine is on fire, you know about it. Let's just say he was having a tepid yogurt week there.

May I also suggest it's not about head knowledge, but true knowledge that comes through faith, hope and love. Everyone wants Jesus to draw them a diagram lol. Well it is there in scripture, but we needs get to it through faith, and not of our own.

Are you going to be lukewarm about it man? Come on, start by hoping for the salvation of all, see where it takes you as you walk around or read scripture.
LOL, let's just say for the moment I'm simmering instead of boiling. :)
I'm part German so I'm drawn to "sturm & drang" extremes especially re: purity and absoluteness of definitions. But I'm also part Cherokee & French so I can see, hear, & speak metaphor (think art & music). And therefore sympathetic to Mercy trumping justice. The paradox is the tension between perfect forgiveness & perfect justice as I see it.
I am yet able to suspend all that to consider the entire affair on a different level, or in a different sense. Even if not presented so consciously, it may serve a soteriological point about ourselves individually rather than collectively or we could say it speaks to our individual experiences as members of a group (unbelievers/believers)
 
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Rick Otto

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Dear Rick: God is NOT a potential Saviour of all mankind, He IS Saviour. His love & grace indeed are sufficient, it is applied to ALL mankind, the malista and the pas.

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension bowing IN the Name in worship
Right. I'm not denying He is the Saviour of all mankind,
I'm trying to reconcile that with the reality of His role as King and therefore His commitment to justice.

C'mon, you gonna be 'lukewarm' about God's justice? ( I can parry your thrust. Get to the point of resolution, man! lol or we can use poker: I see your lukewarm and raise you a "lawless". ;) )
 
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Rick Otto

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That is precisely what the Bible teaches!


“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself :That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”
Oops! You universalized the pronouns ( I show them in red).
Meaning you have violated the context which defines who "we" & "us" are.
You find that out by finding out who this epistle was written to - the intended audience - which is NOT the "universal we" . So let's take a look:
"[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"

I am not arguing that this totally disproves Universalism, just making a specific point about this passage, thanks for understanding.
 
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FineLinen

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Right. I'm not denying He is the Saviour of all mankind,
I'm trying to reconcile that with the reality of His role as King and therefore His commitment to justice.

C'mon, you gonna be 'lukewarm' about God's justice? ( I can parry your thrust. Get to the point of resolution, man! lol or we can use poker: I see your lukewarm and raise you a "lawless". ;) )

Dear Rick: There is no disharmony between the Love of God for the pas and His justice which flows in perfect harmony to the rebels we all are.

Justice=

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice
 
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FineLinen

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Oops! You universalized the pronouns ( I show them in red).
Meaning you have violated the context which defines who "we" & "us" are.
You find that out by finding out who this epistle was written to - the intended audience - which is NOT the "universal we" . So let's take a look:
"[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:"

I am not arguing that this totally disproves Universalism, just making a specific point about this passage, thanks for understanding.

Dear Rick: There is zero question who St. Paul is addressing. Those saints are the elect or the malista if you will. But reconciliation extends to the all, the pas and the ta pante.

There is a perfect God equation.

Adam1>>>many "made sinners">>>

Last Adam>>>many "made righteous"
 
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