How did the Jews come to believe that a Son is equal to his Father?

JustAskin said:

In John 10, Jesus admonishes the Jews who believe that he was claiming to be Almighty God because he said he was ‘The Son of God’.

The premise behind this is that, supposedly, the Jews believe that a son is equal to his father! And since they rightfully believe that the ‘Father’ is God, it follows, it’s said, that Jesus must be equal to God meaning... (and I disagree strongly) that Jesus ‘is God’ (Why isn’t it said, then, that Jesus must be the ‘Father’, Jesus ‘is the Father’)

I have searched and searched and can find no evidence of any such traditional belief in any culture.

For me, Jesus is emphatic that he calls himself ‘Son of God’ because he is doing ‘the works of of God’. This is backed up by his equivalent claim that [some of] the Jews were ‘Sons of their Father’ (Satan). He didn’t mean they ‘were Satan, himself’ but that they were ‘doing the works of Satan’.

However, despite Jesus’ denial of claiming to be almighty God (‘I only said I was the Son of God’!) many Christians denominations still claim Jesus ‘Was Claiming’ he was Almighty God.

How could jesus, Son of Almighty God because he does the works of God, be claiming to be the same almighty God he is working for (and was taught by and can only speak what he hears almighty God say)?

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In answer to your first question, principles of agency held by the ancients held that a man's son was his primary agents, in a sense "outranking" any servants of the father. That principle is apparent at Luke 20:9-16.

That Jesus claimed to be God is not quite correct. Jesus never claimed anything of himself at all, but asked others who they believed he was, see Mark 8:29.

As to the rest, you've stumbled upon the Christian concept of the Trinity. It's found throughout the book of John, see John's description of the Word at John 1, also Paul's teaching that all things were created by, for and through "the son", i.e., the Word. Philo of Alexandria taught the same, that God existed as a divine triad, appearing at first to be three, but in reality One. His assignment of the Word as the Son of God is the same as the Christian teaching. From an exposition of the teachings of Philo:

"The Logos has an origin, but as God's thought it also has eternal generation. It exists as such before everything else all of which are secondary products of God's thought and therefore it is called the "first-born." The Logos is thus more than a quality, power, or characteristic of God; it is an entity eternally generated as an extension, to which Philo ascribes many names and functions. The Logos is the first-begotten Son of the Uncreated Father: "For the Father of the universe has caused him to spring up as the eldest son, whom, in another passage, he [Moses] calls the first-born..."

https://www.iep.utm.edu/philo/#SH11d

JustAskin said:

In John 10, Jesus admonishes the Jews who believe that he was claiming to be Almighty God because he said he was ‘The Son of God’.

The premise behind this is that, supposedly, the Jews believe that a son is equal to his father! And since they rightfully believe that the ‘Father’ is God, it follows, it’s said, that Jesus must be equal to God meaning... (and I disagree strongly) that Jesus ‘is God’ (Why isn’t it said, then, that Jesus must be the ‘Father’, Jesus ‘is the Father’)

I have searched and searched and can find no evidence of any such traditional belief in any culture.

For me, Jesus is emphatic that he calls himself ‘Son of God’ because he is doing ‘the works of of God’. This is backed up by his equivalent claim that [some of] the Jews were ‘Sons of their Father’ (Satan). He didn’t mean they ‘were Satan, himself’ but that they were ‘doing the works of Satan’.

However, despite Jesus’ denial of claiming to be almighty God (‘I only said I was the Son of God’!) many Christians denominations still claim Jesus ‘Was Claiming’ he was Almighty God.

How could jesus, Son of Almighty God because he does the works of God, be claiming to be the same almighty God he is working for (and was taught by and can only speak what he hears almighty God say)?

Click to expand...

It is clearly stated in God's word that Jesus is God in the flesh. He is no less God for being Man. Jesus had to come to earth as man so that He could represent man to God as the last Adam. He had to be God so that by being included in Him, we could be partakers of the divine nature.
Lord Jesus had a good deal of conflict over His claim to forgive sin, the prerogative of God alone. His response was classic. He set about healing someone. Psalm 103 - ring a bell? Lord Jesus had the nature of God from being conceived by the Holy Spirit and the physical and soul attributes of man by being born of a woman. It's not that hard to comprehend.

JustAskin said:

For me, Jesus is emphatic that he calls himself ‘Son of God’ because he is doing ‘the works of of God’.

Click to expand...

You have to start at the beginning. When the Torah was written Israel was living in the dessert in Tents. Camels were the transportation back then. Not Jet airplanes like we use today. The Father has authority and control over the tent. He controls what goes in and out through the door of the tent. Jesus is the Son and he has the authority of the father. We are told that Jesus did not come to be served but to be a servant. Paul talks about how the son of the free women does not have any advantage over the son of the slave women because they are both under instruction and a tutor. Even the son of the flesh can persecute the son of the free women. Yet the slave women's son will not share in the inheritance.

Aussie Pete said:

Jesus had to come to earth as man so that He could represent man to God as the last Adam.

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Jesus was God incarnate in the Flesh. "The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us." (John1:14) The very first letter in the Bible is the letter B in Beginning. This letter represents a tent and dwelling in a Tent. Actually this is the tabernacle where God dwells in the Holy of Holys. We are to be Holy and Sanctified so that the Holy Spirit of God can dwell with us.

My guess would be Isaiah 9:6-7,

"For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called

• Wonderful Counselor,
• Mighty God,
• Everlasting Father,
• Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this." NKJV

JustAskin said:

In John 10, Jesus admonishes the Jews who believe that he was claiming to be Almighty God because he said he was ‘The Son of God’.

The premise behind this is that, supposedly, the Jews believe that a son is equal to his father! And since they rightfully believe that the ‘Father’ is God, it follows, it’s said, that Jesus must be equal to God meaning... (and I disagree strongly) that Jesus ‘is God’ (Why isn’t it said, then, that Jesus must be the ‘Father’, Jesus ‘is the Father’)

I have searched and searched and can find no evidence of any such traditional belief in any culture.

For me, Jesus is emphatic that he calls himself ‘Son of God’ because he is doing ‘the works of of God’. This is backed up by his equivalent claim that [some of] the Jews were ‘Sons of their Father’ (Satan). He didn’t mean they ‘were Satan, himself’ but that they were ‘doing the works of Satan’.

However, despite Jesus’ denial of claiming to be almighty God (‘I only said I was the Son of God’!) many Christians denominations still claim Jesus ‘Was Claiming’ he was Almighty God.

How could jesus, Son of Almighty God because he does the works of God, be claiming to be the same almighty God he is working for (and was taught by and can only speak what he hears almighty God say)?

Click to expand...

You should look into second temple Jewish theology and figure out whether or not 1st century monotheistic Jews were able to believe that Jesus is God.

For ease of research there is a credible Bible scholar who is also a YouTuber and most of the leg work can be found here:

JustAskin said:

How could jesus, Son of Almighty God because he does the works of God, be claiming to be the same almighty God he is working for (and was taught by and can only speak what he hears almighty God say)?

Click to expand...

The "sameness" in question is not the sameness of identity, but the sameness of kind. You seem to be confusing the two.

The doctrine is not that the Son and Father are identical, but same in kind. This sameness in kind comes about via generarion. Just as dogs generate puppies, and cats generate kittens, and humans generate humans; so to God generates God.

The important difference is that creatures generate creatures within the temporal realm of time and space; whereas, the Son is eternally generated of the Father. He is of the same essence of the Father in a way analogous to humans being of the same kind as their parents, puppies of dogs, kittens of cats. Same kind, but not identical.

The premise behind this is that, supposedly, the Jews believe that a son is equal to his father! And since they rightfully believe that the ‘Father’ is God, it follows, it’s said, that Jesus must be equal to God meaning... (and I disagree strongly) that Jesus ‘is God’ (Why isn’t it said, then, that Jesus must be the ‘Father’, Jesus ‘is the Father’)

Click to expand...

It appears you are ignorant of the Triune NATURE of the living God, as revealed in Scripture. This doctrine has been the doctrine of the prophets & the apostles & the Christian church since ancient times.

It appears you are also either ignorant of the Scriptures or deliberately changing the Word of God. You keep saying equal TO the Father. Scripture says, the prophets say, the apostles say & Jesus says AND EVEN THE FATHER says, that the Son is God & that He is equal WITH the Father, not equal TO the Father.

To say that the Son is equal to the Father equates that the Son IS the Father. That heresy was dealt with long ago. To say that the Son is equal WITH the Father is to say that the Son, as to Person is DISTINCT from the Person of the Father but as to Divine nature, has the same nature of God, just as the Father has this same nature & just as the Holy Spirit has this same nature: Three Persons, co-equal WITH one another, sharing the same Divine Nature that only God has.

That is the premiss of this whole website, concerning the Creeds of Christianity, concerning the 'faith once for all given to the saints,' that God is Triune in nature, one God by nature, three Persons equally possessing intrinsically the one nature that only God possesses, distinct from but not separate from one another.

John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal WITH God.

However, despite Jesus’ denial of claiming to be almighty God (‘I only said I was the Son of God’!) many Christians denominations still claim Jesus ‘Was Claiming’ he was Almighty God. How could Jesus, Son of Almighty God because he does the works of God, be claiming to be the same almighty God he is working for (and was taught by and can only speak what he hears almighty God say)?

Click to expand...

Jesus was not working FOR the Father. That is not Scriptural. Jesus stated that from the beginning the Father IS WORKING (present tense participial) AND that I AM ALSO WORKING (present tense participial), implying from the beginning also. Jesus & the Father have been working the works of God ever since the beginning of time, space & matter & both are continuing to do so. He said that He sees what the Father is doing & He does what the Father is doing.

John 5:17 In His answer Jesus said to them, "My Father is always working, up until now (this very moment) AND I too, am working."

NLT But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working AND so am I.”

Ellicott's Commentary:

"They charge Him with breaking the law of God. His answer to this charge is that His action was the result of His Sonship & unity with that God. The very idea of God implied action."

"This was familiar to the thought of the day. Comp., e.g., in the contemporary Philo, 'God never ceases working; but as to burn is the property of fire & to be cold is the property of snow, thus also to work is the property of God, & much the more, inasmuch as He is the origin of action for all others' (Legis Allegor. i. 3)."

"The rest on the seventh day was the completion of the works of creation (see this stated emphatically in Gen 2:2-3). It was not, it could not be, a cessation in Divine work, or in the flow of divine energy. That knew nor day nor night, nor summer nor winter, nor Sabbath nor Jubilee."

"For man & animal & tree & field, this alternation of a time of production & a time of reception was needed, but God was the ever-constant source of energy & life for all in heaven & earth & sea. The power going forth to heal that sufferer was the same power which sustained them in well-being."

"The sun shone & fruitful showers fell & the flower burst its bud & harvest ripened, &they themselves, in energy of life, had grown on every day alike. God ever works up to this present moment. That God is also Father. The Son, therefore, EVER WORKS IN THE SAME WAY, UP TO THIS PRESENT MOMENT."

Continuing on...

John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for BLASPHEMY, because You, who are a man, DECLARE YOURSELF TO BE GOD."

Leviticus 24:13-16 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Bring out of the camp the one who cursed & let all who heard him lay their hands on his head & let all the congregation STONE him. And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. Whoever BLASPHEMES THE NAME OF YHWH (LORD) shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall STONE him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes THE NAME, shall be put to death.

The Jews RIGHTLY understood Jesus claim to be the eternal, memorial God. They had two choices: fall at Jesus' feet & worship Him as God & Savior or charge Him with blasphemy for claiming to be God, using THE MEMORIAL NAME of the living God (YHWH) & applying it to Himself. He should be stoned to death. This they tried many times because Jesus kept claiming WHO HE IS: Immanuel, which being interpreted: God WITH us (not TO us).

Matthew 1:23 Berean Literal Bible "Behold, the virgin will hold in womb & will bring forth a son & they will call His name Immanuel" which is, being translated, "God WITH us." (Isaiah 7:14; 8:8)

John 8:49-65 But because I tell the truth, you do NOT believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you NOT believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

48Then the Jews answered & said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan & have a demon?” Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father & YOU DISHONOR ME. (see John 5:22-24)

50And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks & judges. Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

52Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead & the prophets & You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. WHO DO YOU MAKE YOURSELF OUT TO BE?"

54Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have NOT known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him & keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day & he saw IT & was glad.”

57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old AND YOU HAVE SEEN ABRAHAM?”

58Jesus said to them, “Amen, I say to you, before Abraham EXISTED, I AM.”

59Then they took up STONES to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself & went out of the temple, going through the midst of them & so passed by.

Jesus used the memorial name of God, 'I AM', stating He is the memorial God, attributing that Name to Himself. The Jews immediately recognized once again, that Jesus claimed to be the Almighty God, the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, the God of Israel. The name was so sacred, the Jews would no longer pronounce it, for fear of blasphemy & being stoned. Jesus openly claimed He is YHWH, claiming the memorial name reserved only for the one true God.

Continuing on, the Father calls the Son, God; equal in nature but is not the same Person as the Father!

Hebrews 1:3,5,6,8 The Son is the radiance {literally 'outshining' as to source not a reflection of) of God’s glory & the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS NATURE, upholding all things by His powerful word. Or AGAIN: “I will be His Father & He will be My Son” ? And AGAIN, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all God’s angels WORSHIP HIM."But concerning THE SON--He says:“Your throne, O GOD--endures forever & ever & justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Isaiah 9:6,7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given & the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government AND PEACE there will be no end. He will REIGN on the throne of David...

Here is the Athanasian Creed concerning the Triune nature of God.

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic ('universal') faith. Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally. Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity & the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another & that of the Holy Spirit still another.

But the divinity of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has & the Holy Spirit has.

The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being. So too, there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings; there is but one uncreated & immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings; there is but one almighty being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Yet there are not three gods; there is but one God. Thus the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord. Yet there are not three lords; there is but one Lord.


The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; He was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; He proceeds from the Father & the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three Sons; there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after, nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal & coequal WITH each other. So in everything, as was said earlier, we must worship their trinity in their unity & their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved should think thus about the trinity. But it is necessary for eternal salvation that one also believe in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith: That we believe & confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God & human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time & He is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul & human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God & human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by His divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to Himself.

He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of His person. For just as one human is both rational soul & flesh, so too the one Christ is both God & human.

He suffered for our salvation; He descended to hell; He arose from the dead; He ascended to heaven; He is seated at the Father's right hand; from there He will come to judge the living & the dead. At His coming all people will arise bodily & give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life & those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith: one cannot be saved without believing it firmly & faithfully.


Again the Christian faith is addressed in the Nicene Creed as well.

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven & earth, of all things visible & invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; of the same essence as the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us & for our salvation, He came down from heaven; He became incarnate by the Holy Spirit & the virgin Mary & was made human.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered & was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven & is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living & the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father & the Son & WITH the Father & the Son is worshiped & glorified. He spoke through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic & apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead & to life in the world to come. Amen.

MUCH MORE could be said but I will stop here.