Treatable Conditions

WebersHome

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Jas 5:14 . . Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of The Lord

Religious fanatics here and there are allowing their underage children to suffer and even die from treatable medical conditions on the basis of that verse. Where do we draw the line with the so-called "freedom of religion" guaranteed in the US Constitution's first amendment? Answer: We draw the line at the child's inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; which, according to America's Declaration of Independence; are not only God-given rights, but also a self evident truth that men were created with those rights.

The DOI goes on to say that all men are created equal. It doesn't say grown up men; it says all men, which means that women and children have just as much right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as anybody else. Parents who deny the truth of those rights are nothing in the world but wicked despots; and in point of fact the very kinds of twisted monarchs the DOI targets.

Christ addressed this issue indirectly by means of his teachings on the seventh day Sabbath; which, in a nutshell, says that the seventh day was made for man, not the other way around. (Mark 2:27)

Matt 12:11-12 . . And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do good on the sabbath days.

The sanctity of human life trumps the sanctity of the Sabbath. So then, hospitals, doctors, nurses, firemen, law enforcement, soup kitchens, rescue missions, Red Cross, Haiti emergency workers, etc. who are busy on the Sabbath do not sin. Do they break the Sabbath? Yes; but the sanctity of the Sabbath is secondary to the sanctity of human life.

So then, I would have to say, in accordance with Matt 12:11-12, that people who deny their children adequate medical care in the name of religion regard the value of their own flesh and blood as something less than that of a beast.

It's okay to have elders pray for your child, and it's okay to anoint them with oil as per James 5:14. But after that, parents really should take their children to a doctor because the sanctity of human life is far more important than strict observance of one's religious rituals.

There used to be an old saying going around in Christian circles that went something like this: When a farmer prays for a crop, he should say amen with a hoe. In other words, don't just sit back and wait for a miracle when it's in your power to take some action; and if you don't, then in my opinion, you deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when a child in your care dies from a treatable condition.

1Tim 5:8 . . If any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
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RaymondG

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The bible says to pray believing that you have received what you asked for when you pray. If you have your mind set to go to the DR after the prayer, you might as well skip the prayer.

The issue lies in the fact that we test our faith, only in dire situations.....and we test it on others....e.g. children. When our children get sick, is not the time to start testing out our healing faith.

And we should not expect that one, who we have never seen heal another before, would be able to do so with our children.

Yet there is still healing power, and God can heal all manner of sickness and diseases.....

But discover this before you are sick.....called while you are strong......after which you will be able to bear the infirmities of the weak.

God will give you exactly what you ask for, when you ask for it.... Start asking for the small.....and when you become successful, you faith will increase and you can then ask for bigger. Dont start with healing cancer, heal a common cold first......And dont start with others.....start with yourself.

Let us not throw out the babies with the bath water.
 
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WebersHome

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Jas 5:14 . . Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church

I underlined the pronoun "him" to emphasize that the passage instructs the sick person themselves to request help from church elders rather than the sick person's friends and/or family speaking for him. In other words: the sick person's consent is required in this matter.

Christianity is a consensual religion, In other words; Christianity was never meant to be forced on people against their will; most especially underage children. If parents want to entrust their own care to a ritual, fine; but forcing an underage child to follow their religious practices without the child first being old enough to fully understand the risks, and given other options, is just downright unchristian.
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jahel

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There is the example of the friends letting down the paraplegic man thru the roof to be healed by Jesus. In that I can see the example of who Jesus would want to be His followers.

"The DOI goes on to say that all men are created equal. It doesn't say grown up men; it says all men, which means that women and children have just as much right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as anybody else.”

Christians tend to see our God as the pattern of the Chinese gvmnt that has a one child only policy. To them the Father prefers sons so kills it’s own daughters.
 
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robycop3

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Guess those fanatics never heard this story: A Godly man was diagnosed with cancer. The Dr. said, "We can give you radiation treatment & heal you." The man replied, No thanx; I'll ask GOD to heal me."

The man's cancer grew worse despite his prayers, being anointed, etc. so he returned to the Dr. who told him, We can perform surgery & still heal you. The man again said, I'll rely on my FAITH IN GOD to heal me." So he went home, but continued to grow worse til he died, despite more prayers, anointings, laying on of hands, etc.

He met Jesus, & told Him, "I had faith that You'd heal me, & did what I was supposed to, but you let me die anyway. Why?" Jesus replied, "I sent you to the best oncologist there is, to heal you, but you refused, so here you are !"

We don't know how God may choose to heal us, if He so decides. He may choose to use entirely-human means, while He chooses the results. We should use every means He makes available to us for treatment of disease/injury.
 
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WebersHome

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There is the example of the friends letting down the paraplegic man thru the roof to be healed by Jesus. In that I can see the example of who Jesus would want to be His followers.


James' instructions per Jas 5:14 pertain to "the church" i.e. Christians; folk already his followers.
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RaymondG

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Guess those fanatics never heard this story: A Godly man was diagnosed with cancer. The Dr. said, "We can give you radiation treatment & heal you." The man replied, No thanx; I'll ask GOD to heal me."

The man's cancer grew worse despite his prayers, being anointed, etc. so he returned to the Dr. who told him, We can perform surgery & still heal you. The man again said, I'll rely on my FAITH IN GOD to heal me." So he went home, but continued to grow worse til he died, despite more prayers, anointings, laying on of hands, etc.

He met Jesus, & told Him, "I had faith that You'd heal me, & did what I was supposed to, but you let me die anyway. Why?" Jesus replied, "I sent you to the best oncologist there is, to heal you, but you refused, so here you are !"

We don't know how God may choose to heal us, if He so decides. He may choose to use entirely-human means, while He chooses the results. We should use every means He makes available to us for treatment of disease/injury.
Ah....the typical variation of the drowning man passing up row boats to wait for God's help. Sound way to decrease one's faith in God.

Your story has to be adjusted to excuse the going to the Dr.....doesn't make sense to continue seeing the Dr if you are going to decline his advise. You should go to and take the advise of one entity.

God can, Does Heal. Try your ability to ask and receive, before you are in dire need.
 
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RaymondG

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The best healing is not getting sick at all. And this does not entail "eating right." It entails only knowledge of Christ. For we can drink Poison and not be affected.......so bring on the fried chicken and the bacon.....if you have the belief attributed to mustard seeds...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The best healing is not getting sick at all. And this does not entail "eating right."
You will have to argue with thousands of people who found out otherwise, including Pastor Josephson (healed of terminal cancer , the doctors gave him no hope, he was to die in three to six months) .... His testimony published for over 60 years now "God's Key to Health and Happiness" is still available, and explains why most people still die from lack of knowledge, in harmony with all Scripture, and exposing the corporations/ without a heart, soul or truth in them.
 
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RaymondG

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You will have to argue with thousands of people who found out otherwise, including Pastor Josephson (healed of terminal cancer , the doctors gave him no hope, he was to die in three to six months) .... His testimony published for over 60 years now "God's Key to Health and Happiness" is still available, and explains why most people still die from lack of knowledge, in harmony with all Scripture, and exposing the corporations/ without a heart, soul or truth in them.
We can drink poison and not die! Poison! (Note to readers: Please ignore the previous statement......if it, in anyway, rings false to you)

So it matters not what the corporation puts in anything.....matters not how hot the furnace is, that we are thrown in. We are protected.....if we believe it so.
 
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RaymondG

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Not wisdom. Not in line with God's Word either. Rather opposed strongly to what God Says.
No, is isnt wisdom until it is experienced.....Read my disclaimer....I would suggest you heed those words, and nothing before or after it.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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No, is isnt wisdom until it is experienced.....Read my disclaimer....I would suggest you heed those words, and nothing before or after it.
As Jesus' Sheep, I will LISTEN TO HIS VOICE, follow Jesus, and not listen to another voice.
 
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RaymondG

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As Jesus' Sheep, I will LISTEN TO HIS VOICE, follow Jesus, and not listen to another voice.
Your health comes from eating right and living healthy.....and this is great. My help/health, comes from the Lord. I find it unwise, as well, to advise anyone against doctors....just like I would not advise you against eating right.

Everyone is given a measure of faith and must walk within their own calling.... You cannot wear my Armour for you have not proven it. Do not try and make others fit your clothes..
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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We can drink poison and not die! Poison! (Note to readers: Please ignore the previous statement......if it, in anyway, rings false to you)

So it matters not what the corporation puts in anything.....matters not how hot the furnace is, that we are thrown in. We are protected.....if we believe it so.
Better go to a doctor...... if you're going to disregard the basic health principles of a Godly life, of staying healthy, and naturally getting sick (and dying) ....

If you do as God Says, then if you get sick won't be as often, and when you get sick, find out why - go to a doctor of your choosing (more often, of course, if you drink or eat things that cause diabetes, heart disease, cramps, indigestion, headaches, and so forth) ....
 
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robycop3

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Jesus also repeated what His Father had told the ancient Israelis...that we are not to dare God.

If we pass up the medical care & medicines he has allowed man to discover, we are DARING Him not to heal us. When we use every medical resource we can, while thanking Him for making them available, we are honoring Him.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Jesus also repeated what His Father had told the ancient Israelis...that we are not to dare God.

If we pass up the medical care & medicines he has allowed man to discover, we are DARING Him not to heal us. When we use every medical resource we can, while thanking Him for making them available, we are honoring Him.
That might be....
or might not be.

".... every medical resource..." includes herbs, vitamins, supplements.. chiropractic, naturopathic, kinesiology, and , yes, may even include acupuncture (with hundreds of years of proven effectiveness) (I don't use acupuncture myself, but the U.S>Navy physical therapy dept did, effectively) .....

and then,
depending on who you trust, ... (trust the Father in heaven always, simply) .....

For example, LUKE would have used comfrey for several things, as it helps the way God made it, and it costs pennies.....
The corporatins today sell other things very expensive that cause harm, but the protocol in most offices is to use those other things instead of comfrey, even to forbid it, for the sole purpose from the corporations to make huge profits, and not to heal.
 
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