Full Preterist Safe House

Tra Phull said:

But is this truly a safe house for Full Prets?

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So far so good....

I think I am a "weak Partial Preterist", I guess because I never read Sproul' s book, it sounds "half-way enough" to be a Partial Preterist, weak PP or agnostic PP

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Interesting self categorization.
I'd say I'm an "Extreme Partial Preterist"

Sproul is PP, right?

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Yep.

Nice to meet ya!
welcome to the Forums.

And good to meet you, p70 !

"Extreme Partial Preterist"
Inconsistent Preterist
Weak but extreme Partial Preterist

EPP does sound like best label

I've found the demarcation line between Partial and Full preterism is fuzzy... wavy, opaque... and not as black and white as one might first envision.

Every time I think I come to a conclusion that I hold a position that butts up to that line, or maybe crosses it, I find the line just moves...

Mostly its the fact that I maintain the belief that, while all Bible eschatology necessarily found it's primary fulfillment in and around the events leading up to and including the 70AD DoJ, I can't rule out an ongoing, future leaning, application of them as well.

And since, as a Catholic, I uphold the Creeds, which is Christian Forums Sole measuring stick for all things "Christian", I absolutely affirm my eschatological position is squarely partial preterist, no matter how extreme I keep taking it.

Yep, the goalposts are moving...

To me, the most concise line of definition seems to be about a future physical resurrection. From what I understand, that's not a tenet of Full Preterism. They are of the belief that there is ONLY spiritual resurrection - and that has been fulfilled. That's what I understand causes their theology to be considered heretical and against orthodox Christianity.

The Fulls be not CREEDAL

Catholic, Orthodox and most PROTESTANTS believe Nicene Creed

Methodist liturgy at Communion says "Christ has died - Christ has risen - Christ will come again"

Full Prets would not subscribe to that, as I understand them.

Apostles Creed also says " from whence He SHALL COME to judge the quick and the dead "

Tra Phull said:

But is this truly a safe house for Full Prets?

I think I am a "weak Partial Preterist", I guess because I never read Sproul' s book, it sounds "half-way enough" to be a Partial Preterist, weak PP or agnostic PP

Sproul is PP, right?

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Hello T P.
Best just to do a title search on "full preterism" on this board.
Just go to search and type in "full preterism" "hyper preterism" or whatever form of preterism you want to discuss..............

Tra Phull said:

The Fulls be not CREEDAL
Catholic, Orthodox and most PROTESTANTS believe Nicene Creed
Methodist liturgy at Communion says "Christ has died - Christ has risen - Christ will come again"

Full Prets would not subscribe to that, as I understand them.

Apostles Creed also says " from whence He SHALL COME to judge the quick and the dead "

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It might surprise you [as it surprised me], and perhaps some others, that there is actually a board titled "No Creed but Christ".

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Faith Groups | Christian Forums

No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement

No Creed But Christ:
A forum for all Restoration Movement Christians to discuss and fellowship together.

A few things to know about Christians of the Restoration Movement (Stone-Campbell Movement):

• "No Creed but Christ." No Restoration Movement congregation will require a believer to read, memorize, sign, recite, affirm, pledge, or in any way have anything to do with a written creed as a litmus test for fellowship, baptism or communion
• "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent." Our beliefs are based on scripture only.
• "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, love." No Christians are rejected from fellowship based on differing beliefs on "non-essential" doctrines.
• "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian." There is a very small percentage of RM believers who believe that only RM believers are true Christians, but this is not a popular view.

To learn more about what this group believes please see:
The Restoration Movement

LittleLambofJesus said:

It might surprise you [as it surprised me], and perhaps some others, that there is actually a board titled "No Creed but Christ".

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You're right! That does surprise me.

I saw the NO CREED but Christ bunch, LLOJ

Ironic.

EXTREME Partial Preterism

I like p70's designation

Anto9us said:

I am interested in studying Full Preterism

which is not allowed in GT/End Times

no partials - no Mormons - no Muslims - no other eschatology

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I'm not one to mince words, and I don't think we have much time to be lead astray by strange doctrines...

Preterism def. Wiki-
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (Partial Preterism) or all (Full Preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

This is a dangerous doctrine because it puts the false teacher under a serious exhortation...

Revelation 22:18,19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I would say that removing prophecies from Daniel and Revelation, that were put there to warn us of the Great Tribulation, is not a good idea! If you are reading this today, and you are one of those caught in this false doctrine, I would run to the cross and seek the freedom that is only found in a COMPLETE FORGIVENESS!!

Oh, and by the way...
Shouldn't prophecy be written before it happens? If these prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D., why did John wait 20 years to write Revelation around 90 A.D.?

Grace and Peace....

I have Encyclopaedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book Encyclopedia in fronta me, as well as the whole Internet. And none of them say the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred.

When did all life in the sea die? When was all green grass burned up? When was the mark of the beast given? Who gave it? What did it look like?

Prets make all sortsa excuses trying to answer these, & other questions about fulfillment of eschatological prophecy. They claim the marka the beast was everything from Roman ensigns carried by Titus' men to Caesar's likeness on Roman coins. They claim all life in the sea dying refers to the Dead Sea, although it's been a briny lake long as man has lived near it. They claim the "beast/man of sin/antichrist" was everyone from Nero to Titus, to the papacy. They claim the false prophet was everyone from a Jewish zealot to a pope.

All those claims are man-made & wrong. Simple TRUTH is, the prophesied eschatological events simply HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED ! Most of these events will be WORLDWIDE, not limited to Judea. The antichrist will rule most of the world. The marka the beast will be an implanted microchip. The false prophet will, supernaturally, by Satan's power, cause a statue of the antichrist to speak, as it's now no marvel for a statue to "speak" electronically.

And the return of Jesus will be SEEN BY ALL, as He said.

Greetings everyone! As a Full Preterist myself I will be more than happy to discuss this perspective with anyone who is interested. I just found this little corner of the forum and noticed this discussion already begun. Please do ask away. I have alot of Scriptural answers for those who are curious and interested, and probably some very controversial ones you may not have heard before. I think I am probably considered one of the more "extreme" Full Preterists you will encounter and have championed this position for decades now, online. I tend to push the envelope a bit when it comes to the doctrinal implications of this view, but I do my best to remain consistent in my hermeneutics and conscientious contextual treatment of the relevant texts. Interpretive integrity is critical.

robycop3 said:

I have Encyclopaedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book Encyclopedia in fronta me, as well as the whole Internet. And none of them say the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred.

When did all life in the sea die? When was all green grass burned up? When was the mark of the beast given? Who gave it? What did it look like?

Prets make all sortsa excuses trying to answer these, & other questions about fulfillment of eschatological prophecy. They claim the marka the beast was everything from Roman ensigns carried by Titus' men to Caesar's likeness on Roman coins. They claim all life in the sea dying refers to the Dead Sea, although it's been a briny lake long as man has lived near it. They claim the "beast/man of sin/antichrist" was everyone from Nero to Titus, to the papacy. They claim the false prophet was everyone from a Jewish zealot to a pope.

All those claims are man-made & wrong. Simple TRUTH is, the prophesied eschatological events simply HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED ! Most of these events will be WORLDWIDE, not limited to Judea. The antichrist will rule most of the world. The marka the beast will be an implanted microchip. The false prophet will, supernaturally, by Satan's power, cause a statue of the antichrist to speak, as it's now no marvel for a statue to "speak" electronically.

And the return of Jesus will be SEEN BY ALL, as He said.

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There are so many ways to respond to this post so, respectfully, I will begin by adamantly disagreeing with your final statement (according to its implied inference). Jesus Christ will NOT be "seen by all" (if you are referring to all of mankind alive at the time of his return). I challenge you to examine that text in Revelation 1 with me. I think you will be shocked by the actual, accurate exegesis and its implications.

Skidder said:

I'm not one to mince words, and I don't think we have much time to be lead astray by strange doctrines...

Preterism def. Wiki-
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (Partial Preterism) or all (Full Preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

This is a dangerous doctrine because it puts the false teacher under a serious exhortation...

Revelation 22:18,19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I would say that removing prophecies from Daniel and Revelation, that were put there to warn us of the Great Tribulation, is not a good idea! If you are reading this today, and you are one of those caught in this false doctrine, I would run to the cross and seek the freedom that is only found in a COMPLETE FORGIVENESS!!

Oh, and by the way...
Shouldn't prophecy be written before it happens? If these prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D., why did John wait 20 years to write Revelation around 90 A.D.?

Grace and Peace....

View attachment 267854

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Again, I will be more than happy to respond to all of these objections, but first I will address the final one. The date of the composition (and dissemination) of the Book of Revelation in its original manuscript form. The common misunderstanding among orthodox, mainstream theologians is that it was written by John somewhere around 90 AD. This false idea is based on a spurious (and very vague) statement by Irenaeus (a historian with very questionable credibility). His statement is as follows: “We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision.

For [it or he] was seen not very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”

– Saint Irenaeus, Adversus haereses 5, 30, 3

Unfortunately, Greek scholars disagree as to the accurate translation of this statement as its grammatical construction is ambiguous. Here is a link to a little more commentary on that subject. Irenaeus on the Date of the Book of Revelation - Taylor Marshall

Based on this vague, ambiguous statement by a questionable historian, modern theologians have built a "case" for the late date of the Book of Revelation when, in fact, a pre-AD 70 date is much more likely based on the internal evidence within the book itself. Dr. Ken Gentry makes a virtually airtight case for the early date in his excellent book "Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation". I highly recommend his analysis of the history of that period and the text itself.

Anto9us said:

I am interested in studying Full Preterism

which is not allowed in GT/End Times

no partials - no Mormons - no Muslims - no other eschatology

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Greetings Anto9us! As a Full Preterist myself (and a proponent and defender of this position for several decades now) I will be happy to discuss this view with you and address your concerns. Please do fire away!

Anto9us has changed over time - left board and reincarnated as Tra Phull - an "Extreme Partial Preterist"

I PMed you, LandT, to fill in more

It would seem that man of sin/son of Perdition may have been known to the Thessalonians as Paul was writing in mid-fifties AD

The "temple of God" the son of perdition sits in May not be a literal, physical Temple - iow - there need not necessarily be a rebuilt 3rd temple of stone as some insist Will come about

I have come to be believe in an early date of Revelation, late 60's AD, but partial Preterism need not FALL TO THE GROUND if Revelation had the Erroneous - we, uh, I mean Irenaus date.

I am semi- familiar with Pret explanations for elements burnt up with fervent heat being metaphorically referring to end of Mosaic age, cannot fully buy into it, that may be , a stretch.

To me, full Preterism is plausible, but not fully convincing.

Reading Gentry' s book long ago caused me to come to C.F. as Anto9us originally. But as said, pinning a date on Revelation ain't the whole shooting' match.

The death of Antipas, if at the late date like 92, would seem to decide for late date, however, in some Greek Orthodox equivalent to Fox's book of martyrs, I ran into an article that said the reign/death of Antipas might have been much earlier, and in line with early date of Revelation.

I don't have a source or link to that Ortho book of martyrs, but I know I saw it online.

Partial Preterism is logical in what it affirms - that some but not all of prophecy occurred by 70 AD.

My problem with Full is in what it DENIES- that there can be no further fulfillment, no literal Parousia ever again.

Grass burning up in Revelation, that's pretty much too metaphorical to come into play here, in fact it's ambiguous when it all burned up, when a third of it burned up, and when it grew back and there was a designation to "hurt not the green grass"

One Full gave me a name of Menachen as to who man of sin was that Thessies knew about, another full gave me another name...

If you showed me an autograph copy of Revelation with an equivalent of raised-seal whatever on a certain date, that still does not settle things.

I already believe Revelation was early date - can't prove it

Abomination of Desolation - Antiochus Epiphanes slaughtering a pig on the . Altar in maccabean times - yet Jesus speaks of a FUTURE (to Him) A of D

So there can be dual/multiple fulfillment of prophecy, and the FULL angle that

"something already happened, it can't happen again, there can be no more"

is bogus

So here we are in the eschatological maelstrom.
Many eschatological are plausible - Full Preterism, Partial Preterism, pre mid post and pre-wrath Premillennialism, Historic Premillennialism that declares the 70 weeks as already over...

Amillennialism is plausible (and btw not in conflict with partial Preterism. In apocalyptic literature outside the canonical, I have seen 400 years rather than 1000 years as a period equivalent to a "Millenium", again, I can't remember sources, but TWO non- canonical apocalypse had a 400 year "Millennium"

Post-Millennialism boggles my mind, but even it, like all eschatologies, is plausible if certain things are granted. None of the eschatological systems just simply "pull things out of the Air" - serious Christians see different things in the Bible concerning end times, they just do.

I do not see Full Preterism as "heresy" because of the way I define heresy, to me, it deals with the deity, nature(s), PRE-existence of Christ - different theologies can be as wrong as all get out to me, yet not heretical, so perhaps posters will stop saying FULLS are HAIRY-TICKS

They're not - they may be not in compliance with Creeds, but as was said somewhere, even at C.F. is a forum called No CREED but Christ

I happen to be gung ho Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed, and Full Preterism Doran' t jive with them, or other liturgical statements like

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again